July 2019 White Dwarf: Indomitus Crusade Lore!

[Knight of the Raven]

For what it's worth, back when I started the hobby, all that was required to know about the developments of both settings was a White Dwarf subscription. And there were big developments back then; namely the Storm of Chaos and Eye of Terror world campaigns.

I learned everything there was to learn about these month by month with White Dwarf. No novel from the Black Library was necessary to be aware of some critical knowledge, and that was a good thing because books had to jump through several hoops before being translated in my language, leaving several English-only.

It made sense that novels were only used to expand on existing lore or tell stories that don't influence the setting at large back then, however. The Black Library was in its early stages, and basically amounted to Dan Abnett's Gaunt Ghosts and Gavin Thorpe's Last Chancers from what I gathered from the old White Dwarfs.

I can't imagine people would have taken the aftermath of Archaon's push towards Middenheim or of Abaddon's assault against the Cadian Gate seriously if such important matters were left to novels, whether there was a time jump or not.

It's also easier to deal with a few stodgy articles about the lore than it is to trudge through pages and pages and pages of tedious narration, self-indulging fantasies and precious little darlings left unmurdered just to learn what happened after this huge, setting-shaking event Games Workshop devoted three huge campaign books to.

 

• Said hole in space is now a stable warp tunnel with open entrances created by a warp being that is described as deity of the Greater Good created by the psychic potential of the humans and other auxiliary races and the teachings of the T'au (don't ask, Kelly writes horrible T'au fluff most of the time)

It fits the setting. Thoughts, beliefs and emotions have always coalesced into the Warp for as long as I've been reading about Warhammer 40,000. The only reason this hadn't happened yet was that T'au souls amount to a blip at most in the Empyrean.

That their auxiliaries were enough to spawn one such creature after a few centuries may surprise some, but a bunch of hillbillies stuck on one single planet created three Chaos Gods in the span of a few millennia when it took an enormous galactic empire's worth of aliens who felt emotions infinitely deeper than anything else presented in the lore to create one, and that was after they stooped to the lowest depths of depravity on a nearly species-wide level for a whole lot of time.

Assuming this warp being wasn't an impostor, of course. Though it's really the bottom of the warp barrel that has to make do with T'au of all things.

I'm not saying I like this development or even find it necessary, but as I mentioned, I consider it to be faithful to the setting.

[Marshal Rohr]

It’s going to be a chaos god in the end, pretending to be benevolent.

[Panzer]

It’s going to be a chaos god in the end, pretending to be benevolent.

 

Knowing Kelly and how much he loves to tease about corrupted T'au and considering there wasn't any such hint in the story I doubt it's a chaos god in disguise.

[Frater Antodeniel]

Not very impressed by this new Lore.

 

Guilliman, Primaris....blah blah blah......

 

Patchworks for a broken Lore that was rushed due to Commercial objectives and mostly because of outdated laws on Copyright that predate our modern "21st century" times. (If i remember well the whole "Primaris" thing is because the copyright on the commercial use of the name "Space Marines" will end in a near future. Correct me if i'm wrong, i don't clame to be omniscient.)

 

At least there is the Imperium Nihilus, the place where normally Warhammer 40k is still Warhammer 40k.

 

Personally, on my side of the Lore, the remnants of the Knights of Blood chapter are engaged in a fierce battle for survival in a sector of Imperium Nihilus that is totally cut off from the rest of the Imperium due to the Warpstorm, it will take millenia for them before they see any signs of Primaris and Guilliman^^. And it is to believe that they are not the only chapter of the Adeptus Astartes trapped in this kind of situation. To those in the Imperium Nihilus, there are no Primaris, no Guilliman, no Indomitus Crusade, there is only War, against the Heretics, the Mutants and the Xenos.

[Blindhamster]

Not very impressed by this new Lore.

 

Guilliman, Primaris....blah blah blah......

 

Patchworks for a broken Lore that was rushed due to Commercial objectives and mostly because of outdated laws on Copyright that predate our modern "21st century" times. (If i remember well the whole "Primaris" thing is because the copyright on the commercial use of the name "Space Marines" will end in a near future. Correct me if i'm wrong, i don't clame to be omniscient.)

 

At least there is the Imperium Nihilus, the place where normally Warhammer 40k is still Warhammer 40k.

 

Personally, on my side of the Lore, the remnants of the Knights of Blood chapter are engaged in a fierce battle for survival in a sector of Imperium Nihilus that is totally cut off from the rest of the Imperium due to the Warpstorm, it will take millenia for them before they see any signs of Primaris and Guilliman^^. And it is to believe that they are not the only chapter of the Adeptus Astartes trapped in this kind of situation. To those in the Imperium Nihilus, there are no Primaris, no Guilliman, no Indomitus Crusade, there is only War, against the Heretics, the Mutants and the Xenos.

 

knights of blood are canonically wiped out as per DoB. They may have been rebuilt as a primaris only chapter ;) but Dante didn't even want that to happen.

 

Imperium Nihilus isn't "normal 40k", it has primaris just like imperium sanctus, and it's in a worse state than sanctus or pre reft imperium was, flat out called out as losing and being logistically worth abandonning.

[pandion40]

Like many my major issue with 8th edition fluff is the length of time it has taken to start expanding on it. 8th was a massive change in the setting and it should’ve launched with multiple novels a campaign series and White dwarf lore articles like this all focused on the Primaris and other setting changes. I can understand why it’s taken so long, The Horus Heresy novels, building age of Sigmar and re doing all the codexes in record time is a major undertaking. But a good reason doesn’t change the reality that there’s a decent amount of people out there who don’t like the setting changes and it’s going to be much harder to change their minds now than nearer the launch.

[Ishagu]

Not very impressed by this new Lore.

 

Guilliman, Primaris....blah blah blah......

 

Patchworks for a broken Lore that was rushed due to Commercial objectives and mostly because of outdated laws on Copyright that predate our modern "21st century" times. (If i remember well the whole "Primaris" thing is because the copyright on the commercial use of the name "Space Marines" will end in a near future. Correct me if i'm wrong, i don't clame to be omniscient.)

 

At least there is the Imperium Nihilus, the place where normally Warhammer 40k is still Warhammer 40k.

 

Personally, on my side of the Lore, the remnants of the Knights of Blood chapter are engaged in a fierce battle for survival in a sector of Imperium Nihilus that is totally cut off from the rest of the Imperium due to the Warpstorm, it will take millenia for them before they see any signs of Primaris and Guilliman^^. And it is to believe that they are not the only chapter of the Adeptus Astartes trapped in this kind of situation. To those in the Imperium Nihilus, there are no Primaris, no Guilliman, no Indomitus Crusade, there is only War, against the Heretics, the Mutants and the Xenos.

I think you need to read some of the novels. And in your opinion who is a better logistician and general than Guilliman in the 42nd millennium Imperium?

 

There's a level of dislike which isn't based around the lore itself, but rather a personal distaste for Ultras and Primaris.

[Frater Antodeniel]

Like many my major issue with 8th edition fluff is the length of time it has taken to start expanding on it. 8th was a massive change in the setting and it should’ve launched with multiple novels a campaign series and White dwarf lore articles like this all focused on the Primaris and other setting changes. I can understand why it’s taken so long, The Horus Heresy novels, building age of Sigmar and re doing all the codexes in record time is a major undertaking. But a good reason doesn’t change the reality that there’s a decent amount of people out there who don’t like the setting changes and it’s going to be much harder to change their minds now than nearer the launch.

 

Regarding the 8th edition fluff expansion and the Primaris introduction, GW did several important mistakes that should have been solved very easily and would have paved a better welcoming from the community.

 

For example, regarding the Blood Angels Lore (The one i know best), the Primaris introduction should have been the occasion of a whole novel, following the Devastation of Baal events (or perhaps part of a series of novel called the Devastation of Baal), involving Corbulo and Cawl, with Corbulo (helped by many others Blood Angels successors Sanguinary Priests that survived) finally achieving is long quest for a cure to the Red Thirst, thus unlocking for Cawl the possibility to create Primaris from the bloodline of Sanguinius. It would have been a great marker of the transition from Astartes to Primaris. Instead GW gave us a spoon, full of all-mighty Cawl genius and Corbulo misery, right into the mouth, whether you like it or not. (To note that, in the same idea, Cawl would have been clueless regarding the Black Rage, and the fact that the Primaris would still be flawed by it, like their Astartes.)

 

Fortunately, in the end, the 40k Universe is big, and subject to everyone interpretations. You can pick the part of the fluff you like and disregard the rest, most of the time, plus you can also create your own part of the fluff in your mind (and on paper if you are really "inspired").

 

--------------------------

Just to answer Blindhamster,

 

As for the Knights of Blood, there is a badly wounded company that was believed to be destroyed while engaging the Tau, and that did not make it in time to depart with the rest of the chapter for the defense of Baal. Instead, the blindly followed their last orders that was to rejoin their chapter as fast as possible and to assemble at their fortress monastery. It would only be during the events of the Cicatrix Maledictum that they would emerge from the warp above their fortress monastery, only to discover it empty of most it contained. Blind to the ultimate fate of their chapter, they would undergo the slow process to rebuild their chapter strenght and glory, as well as to discover the truth of what happened to the rest of the chapter.... (That is one of several ideas^^, and it proove that there are always a possibility should you look for it. Also, on side note, the interpretation of Guy Haley on the Knights of Blood is subject to criticisism, he even indulged himself the luxury to fool himself when he state in the DANTE novel that the Knights of Blood are renegades only for the Ordo Astartes alone, while in Devastation of Baal, he write that the Knights of Blood are declared renegades by edict of the High Lords of Terra....so i guess we are free to choose what is the "truth" in the end.^^)

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I like the new fluff they're adding in. It's a little frustrating that they haven't focused more on flushing it out. But the amount of background they've kicked out for Age of Sigmar, and 40k is impressive.

 

For the majority of the time I've been playing I would only get new fluff for my army when a new codex was released or in the very occasional white dwarf. I have to admit I'm curious to see how primaris are treated 5 years from now when the fluff is has evolved.

[Lexington]

The reason none of this stuff has ever sat well is that 40K is over, even if no one wants to say it.

 

For the first thirty years of its existence, 40K was "a setting, not a story." It didn't move. It set up little hints and prophecies of a coming war to end all wars, the reckoning come due since the days of the Heresy, etc., etc., all with the general presumption that this wouldn't actually happen, because then the whole thing is over, and then what's the point? There was tension, possibility, and a great big space for players to do their own things with the enormity and possibility of the setting.

 

Then things got bad, and the powers that be decided it was time to actually set off all the little bombs that had been planted in 40K's structure, break all the seals, let Abbadon have his great apocalyptic hoo-dee-hoo, bring back Primarchs and wreck all hell with the Eldar Pantheon. It generated a lot of interest and sales, but it didn't wipe away the question - what's the point now? 40K ended, for all useful purposes. Like, not really, because there's money to be made and whatever, but the storytelling logic of the place was wrecked and remains so. It's just a bunch of IP floating around, bumping into each other and having wars, but it doesn't feel right because 40K's still over. It was never going to work, and it still doesn't work, but there's models to buy and games to play, so everyone just goes on and pretends and tries real hard to say "but there's still background happening!" as if the setting didn't decisively and anti-climactically end in 2017.

 

But it did.

[Redcomet]

The reason none of this stuff has ever sat well is that 40K is over, even if no one wants to say it.

 

For the first thirty years of its existence, 40K was "a setting, not a story." It didn't move. It set up little hints and prophecies of a coming war to end all wars, the reckoning come due since the days of the Heresy, etc., etc., all with the general presumption that this wouldn't actually happen, because then the whole thing is over, and then what's the point? There was tension, possibility, and a great big space for players to do their own things with the enormity and possibility of the setting.

 

Then things got bad, and the powers that be decided it was time to actually set off all the little bombs that had been planted in 40K's structure, break all the seals, let Abbadon have his great apocalyptic hoo-dee-hoo, bring back Primarchs and wreck all hell with the Eldar Pantheon. It generated a lot of interest and sales, but it didn't wipe away the question - what's the point now? 40K ended, for all useful purposes. Like, not really, because there's money to be made and whatever, but the storytelling logic of the place was wrecked and remains so. It's just a bunch of IP floating around, bumping into each other and having wars, but it doesn't feel right because 40K's still over. It was never going to work, and it still doesn't work, but there's models to buy and games to play, so everyone just goes on and pretends and tries real hard to say "but there's still background happening!" as if the setting didn't decisively and anti-climactically end in 2017.

 

But it did.

I disagree. The 40k setting hasn’t felt this alive in years and years. It had grown stale with endless iterations of the same stuff. Now there is finally something new happening.

[Rik Lightstar]

The reason none of this stuff has ever sat well is that 40K is over, even if no one wants to say it.

 

For the first thirty years of its existence, 40K was "a setting, not a story." It didn't move. It set up little hints and prophecies of a coming war to end all wars, the reckoning come due since the days of the Heresy, etc., etc., all with the general presumption that this wouldn't actually happen, because then the whole thing is over, and then what's the point? There was tension, possibility, and a great big space for players to do their own things with the enormity and possibility of the setting.

 

Then things got bad, and the powers that be decided it was time to actually set off all the little bombs that had been planted in 40K's structure, break all the seals, let Abbadon have his great apocalyptic hoo-dee-hoo, bring back Primarchs and wreck all hell with the Eldar Pantheon. It generated a lot of interest and sales, but it didn't wipe away the question - what's the point now? 40K ended, for all useful purposes. Like, not really, because there's money to be made and whatever, but the storytelling logic of the place was wrecked and remains so. It's just a bunch of IP floating around, bumping into each other and having wars, but it doesn't feel right because 40K's still over. It was never going to work, and it still doesn't work, but there's models to buy and games to play, so everyone just goes on and pretends and tries real hard to say "but there's still background happening!" as if the setting didn't decisively and anti-climactically end in 2017.

 

But it did.

What a rose-tinted perspective.

 

The story changed dramatically in 1993 with the advent of Second edition.

 

Then they added a bunch of new/distinct races over the course of the next few years, Necrons, T'au and Dark Eldar.

 

There's been Black Crusades and the Badab Wars given massive detail that was never there before.

 

Grey Knights went from a handful of Terminator only psychic marines to a fully fledged chapter with all the bells and whistles associated with that.

 

Armageddon made Ghazkull and Yarrick, then Helbrecht and Grimaldus too.

 

The GW "system" is to create a campaign, play through it publicly with or without involvement from their customers. They then back fill with more details once the outcome has been established.

 

That's they're doing now, if anything it's quicker than before. We probably know more about Primaris after 2 years than we new about T'au after 5 years.

 

Rik

[Orange Knight]

I think we're in a period of transition and expansion. This has happened before, but maybe prior to most people joining the hobby so they might not remember or be aware.

 

The Necrons didn't just appear one day with pages and pages of lore about different dynasties. The faction grew over time, and the lore was changed and evolved. The same happened with the Tau.

Long before that the lore was evolved and changed in regards to the Astartes themselves.

 

A lot of people have jumped to conclusions or dismissed the current developments. Are they completely formed and established? No they are not, but that will take some time.

The current grand campaign involves Guilliman, with focus being given to different key warzones like we had with Vigilus. It's redundant to complain about RG being involved as he's the current driving focus of the so called "meta narrative." When this chapter is concluded the story will move on, likely to another returned Primarch or grand hero of another faction.

 

Eventually we'll have pages and pages of lore on the Indomnitus Crusade, the Dark Imperium, the introduction of Primaris and the way they operate, etc. In effect the current batch of complaints will be redundant. I know we live in an age of "here and now" demand, but I think we should all take a step back, exhale, and be patient as the current changes to the setting become fully formed.

[Marshal Rohr]

Everybody disagreeing with Lexington:

 

What’s the endstate of the modern 40k story? Before it was the 13th Black Crusade being successful. That’s why it happened in 999.M41. What is the endstate now? How can it be 2 minutes to midnight when you don’t know what :cuss time it is? In the other system they’re very purposefully creating events and adding to those events and then writing them down as history in future iterations. It’s a cool premise. 40k has nothing like that that can work that isn’t pre-Primaris history.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

For those of us in the complete blank of BL releases. Would one of you be kind enough to list the books and the main factions in them?

[Oshikai]

Which ones exactly? Those containing Fluff pertaining Imperium Nihilus and there such?

 

Edit: Those ones I read personally, dealing with more current Events, trying to to mention the Main Players

 

Plague War 1+2 - Gulliman and Imperial Forces

 

Lords of Silence - Death Guard

 

Blood of Iax - Primaris Ultramarines 

Apocalypse - Several - reading it at the moment

 

Carrion Throne - Inquisition on Terra

Emperors Legion - Mainly on Terra,  Custodes, Sisters of Silence 

 

Wrong Side of the Galaxy to be at those Times:

Devastation of Baal - Baal System, Blood Angels,

Spears of the Emperor - Elaras Veil , Emperors Spears

 

 

 

This is in no way a complete List, just what I read so far. I should probably read more Xenos books, but I seldom find them to keep my Interest. i refrained from giving any Spoilers or recommendation

[Dagoth Ur]

 

What’s the endstate of the modern 40k story?

 

It's sales. As I joked years ago: the struggle between the Emperor and Chaos is a simplified example of Hegelian Dialectics that cannot reach a solution due to an insidious, capitalistic bid for the consumer's money. The endstate of 40k as a setting and a narrative is being a product first and foremost. This is not a purely artistic, literary or philosophical endeavour. It has aspects of it, yes, but in first line it exists to sell miniatures and games. That's it. The narrative goes where the money goes. To pretend like 40k has been purely a setting for the last 30 odd years is quite rose-tinted considering the original 13th Crusade campaign that was eventually rolled back. Attempts have been made to progress the story and fill the setting out and they well predate the Indomitus Crusade.

The setting survives and exists. It has changed, sure, markedly so, but anyone trying to tell me that they are now more limited in devising their own story and your-dudes in the 40k setting or that the setting's potential is now somehow lesser than before is, quite frankly, more than just intellectually dishonest. It is still the sandbox that it used to be, the sandbox is just expanding with a now progressing narrative. In order for there to be a narrative, there needs to be a setting, a diegesis. What more, the setting has always had a narrative. The whole timeline we have always had and that has been filled out as time went on (Horus Heresy, the Great Crusade, the War of the Beast, The Badad War etc.). It's just that all of the narrative thus far has been set in the fictional past from where we have been standing, but that makes it no less a narrative (Otherwise you might as well argue that the Silmarillion, Children of Hurin and the Hobbit are just worldbuilding and not part of an overarching narrative and at that point I quite frankly can't help you).

This is, like, narratology 101. If 40k the setting is dead, then there is no 40k the narrative, or are you about to argue that any fictional novel/narrative can be written without a setting to be set in? Books are being published, paintings are being done, fanfiction is being written and miniatures are being sculpted. The setting lives and it got a breath of much needed air. It's not perfect, but it could have been worse (The setting could have actually been dissolved and relegated to a wholly different narratology such as the Fantasy setting where the predecessor has little bearing on its successor).

This is no different than the changes from 1st edition to 2nd edition or the rollback of the 13th Black Crusade, or even the expansion of the Horus Heresy as far as narrative goes. Things change so that things can be sold. They expand as to not stifle creativity. The big baddie is always dangerous but never wins, the big goodie two shoes is victorious in the end but never fully prevails. The Eldar will always be close to dying out and fearing slaanesh, even with Ynnead. The necrons will always be in a state of awakening. Chaos will always stew in its bitterness and lose that one final battle. Tyranids will always eat. Tau will always be insignificant on a grander scale. Orks will always have a good'un. You catch my drift.

There is no endstate in terms of narrative because the narrative will go on as long as it keeps the dosh rolling in. The narrative will just perpetually go on for as long as it is worth something. It's just business and clearly GW has been doing stellar in the last few years judging by the sales.

If you wish to disregard anything past m41, then....just do it? People have been disregarding all sorts of things  for the sake of their personal enjoyment of 40k. Your setting is still there. It's narrative has just progressed into its future. 2 minutes to midnight have become 30 seconds to midnight. Midnight will never come. Or did I suddenly miss the Rhanda Dhandra? Has the Wolftime come? Has the Emperor been cast from his throne or his body been devoured by the Tyranids? Have the Necrons reclaimed the flesh?

 

 There was tension, possibility, and a great big space for players to do their own things with the enormity and possibility of the setting.

 

A tension for what? Please don't tell me that you sat here since 2nd edition thinking that there was ever any danger for the imperium fighting against chaos and vice versa? The distribution of power in the setting is still static, nobody is really winning, nobody is really losing. We just now have a big tear in the galaxy and some primaris and a few primarchs running around. Anyone who wrote their headcanon beyond m41 has always sat in the same boat as people doing the Horus Heresy before it was a proper thing, or people who did minor chapters that got wiped off the board or invented chapters in fan-canon territory. It sucks that some of that work has now been made impossible by the narrative advancement, people who did lost legions centered around blanks and pariahs know how that feels now that the seventh black book contradicts the very existence of such things.

What is GW supposed to do though? Never change anything in fear of breaking a few eggs? If that were their modus operandi, we wouldn't have changed from Rogue Trader to Warhammer 40k.

[Marshal Rohr]

I’m not arguing about any of that. I’m saying it’s two minutes to midnight, so what happens at midnight?

[Dagoth Ur]

I’m not arguing about any of that. I’m saying it’s two minutes to midnight, so what happens at midnight?

The end of everything, thats why nothing ever conclusively happens. Midnight in 40k is the end of it all. The 13th Crusade was meant to herald this, but it didn't really. Midnight is unreachable because it is the end for a narrative that is not meant to end. It is literally in the second sentence of my post above, but I suppose being facetious here took precedence.

[Marshal Rohr]

And what causes it/does it look like/where does it happen, etc.

[Dagoth Ur]

And what causes it/does it look like/where does it happen, etc.

Depends on who you ask; according to the Harlequins it is once the final dance begins. According to the Craftworldlers it will be the Rhana Dandra once Ynnead devours Slaanesh, frees the Eldar souls and materium and immaterium merge. According to some Chaos factions it is once the Emperor's light has been snuffed out and he is cast down. Imperial Psykers say that the Imperium has entered its end times as of m40/41. As for Necrons/Orks/Dark Eldar/Tau, I am not quite sure if they have a conception of end times.

 

There has never been a specific point in time given, only the bells ringing that the end times have begun and are slowly, but surely reaching their climax. Could have been at the end of m41, could eventually be in m43. Who knows from a inter-diegetical point of view? As extra-diegetic figures we know that it is irelevant because it will never come.

 

Are you done with being facetious now?

[Marshal Rohr]

I’m not being facetious. Lexington raised a good point that has not been disproven. 40k had a very specific ‘midnight’. It no longer has that, and has suffered from a loss of direction as a result.

[CaptainMarsh]

I enjoyed the article.

[Dagoth Ur]

I’m not being facetious. Lexington raised a good point that has not been disproven. 40k had a very specific ‘midnight’. It no longer has that, and has suffered from a loss of direction as a result.

Alright, since you clearly are not in the mood to properly read posts, then, let us do it the long and obstinate way.

 

 

For the first thirty years of its existence, 40K was "a setting, not a story." It didn't move. It set up little hints and prophecies of a coming war to end all wars, the reckoning come due since the days of the Heresy, etc., etc.,

 

Not the case; Warhammer 40k went through major tonal changes during 1992/93 as it changed from Rogue Trader to 2nd Edition. Similar shifts away from satirical underlying tones towards more serious tones can also be observed at the shift of 4th to 5th edition, though not to such an extent. Furthermore, once a setting is estabilished as a pseudo-historical literary construct, it immediately also possesses a narrative and a story. Once it is estabilished that there is such a thing as m31, m36, m39 and m40, it is immediately implied that there is such a thing as historical narrative. Once concepts such as the Horus Heresy, Psyker Wars, Nova Terra Interregnum and the Badab War are created and explained, we have a collection of stories that lead into a greater narrative that in itself is a story. The setting only provides a sand box in such terms as it defines the tones of its universe and stories told within. A setting is the "tell" part and its constituents the "show" part. As an example; the world of Orwell's 1984 is dystopian, but it only becomes apparent as such once we read the actual story set within, however the story could only have been written as such once the author has agreed upon the thematic constituents of his setting. A different example, Warhammer 40k is a grimdark, dystopian setting, but that is primarily shown through stories such as the Siege of Vraks or Dead Man Walking. Setting and Story inform and shape each other in a cyclical fashion, if you are interested in having this explained more properly, then read Gerard Genette's theories on narratology and story telling.

To say that Warhammer 40k has always been a setting and only has recently become a story is ridiculous and absurd when it always has had aspects of both. You don't need a novel to tell you a story; the timelines given in the main rulebook do that just fine.

 

 

There was tension, possibility, and a great big space for players to do their own things with the enormity and possibility of the setting.

 

 

This part hinges upon the assumption that the setting is dead, yet how can it be dead when it is still the fundamental underpinning of the current part of the narrative and still very much informs tone, aesthetic and style? Is this still not the same setting and narrative where Guilliman was laid low during the Scouring, where the Horus Heresy happened, the Emperor died etc? We didn't close a book and open a barely related one, we have merely progressed to the next chapter of the current book.

I also fail to understand what sort of tension there was supposed to be in the overarching narrative. Thus far, the standard has been that things just get progressively worse with each millennium. While one can argue if things have truly gotten worse for the Imperium with the return of a primarch and the primaris, but it certainly hasn't gotten better with the Great Rift and new masses of CSM spilling into realspace.

We know that most major characters cannot die due to marketing and sales reasons. We know that the Imperium will with all likelyhood come crashing down, but we will not see that day come as long as 40k sells. The end is written because it is literally the END, we just don't know its exact nature and happenstances.

As for limiting possibilities, eh, I'll have to disagree as well. Some fan canon has been invalidated, sure, but that is just how it works with fan canon. Sometimes the story progresses or its past gets more fleshed out and what you have come up with just doesn't work anymore. See the topic of Blank Primarchs, or Grey Knights being loyalist Thousand Sons. You can still invent new stories, perhaps even more so with the new toys given. As for the past of the setting, not much has changed.

 

 

 what's the point now?

 

Playing games, selling miniatures, having fun, providing something to the customers, raking in new blood. As profane as it sounds, that is it. If anyone lives in the grand illusion that 40k exist primarily for anything else but being a profitable endeavour then I can only quote Dagoth Ur by saying "What a grand and intoxicating innocence". Sure, one of the goals is to tell compelling stories and forge a nice narrative, but that one orients itself on the money. Why else do you think are the vast majority of Warhammer novels Horus Heresy and Space Marine related?

Now, whatever constitutes a good story or narrative, that we can debate until Kingdom comes, and we might most likely agree on many things in regards to Primaris and Bobby-G, but let us not forget that this is primarily a game that chases sales, not some grand narratological enterprise such as the Legendarium that has been crafted for artistic purposes primarily.

 

 

40K ended, for all useful purposes.

 

How has it ended? I cannot wrap my head around this point because nobody wants to explain just how exactly did it end? Have we broken continuity with what came before? Is the setting and narrative suddenly markedly different in its fundamental constituents? I'll gladly argue against the point, but first a point has to actually be made.

 

 

but the storytelling logic of the place was wrecked and remains so.

 

How has this happened? All I see here is a prime target for Hitchen's Razor.

 

 

 It's just a bunch of IP floating around, bumping into each other and having wars, but it doesn't feel right because 40K's still over. It was never going to work, and it still doesn't work, but there's models to buy and games to play, so everyone just goes on and pretends and tries real hard to say "but there's still background happening!" as if the setting didn't decisively and anti-climactically end in 2017.

 

40k was always just that, fictional armies clashing willy nilly against each other to either explain current era stuff (Horus Heresy) or to provide a scenic backdrop for stories that people wanted to tell. There is models to buy, games to play and books to read because that is the entire point. The current era might not be enjoyable to you and that is certainly legitimate and fine, and it does not need me saying as much, but to assert that the nature of the setting has changed or that it has died is just patently false. Saying that it ended does not make it so. How did it end? A point needs explanation and if it does not have such then it is a point with no merit. Simple as that. How can people still enter the game, setting and story, and play within it, have fun and just in general a grand old time if it supposedly ended in 2017? How can they enjoy a still developing thing if it purportedly died and something else skinwalks as it? Surely more than just a vocal few would pipe up about it and drop the game like a hot potato.

 

 

But it did.

 

In conclusion, it did not.

q.e.d.

[b1soul]

Half the Imperium has essentially been lost. Is this not edging toward midnight?