Discussion on the new C:SM & Possible BT supplement

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Regardless, if there's a BT Supplement or not, you're gonna need that main book?

[Sete]

Regardless, if there's a BT Supplement or not, you're gonna need that main book?

Yes, but I'm not rushing until i see the release. ;)

[Schlitzaf]

Also guys, we have shield drones! So the new bodygaurd rule works like so. If you fail a save, a bodygaurd unit nearby on 2+ takes the attack instead and suffers a SINGLE mortal wound.

 

Then due to our chapter tactics we get a 5+++ on our veterans.

[Acebaur]

Its my grumpiness and stubbornness I suppose.

I do like the rules, but I want to start a primaris army. And if Ultras already have 3 chars, we can have 1 or 2 I reckon.

Voting with my wallet (as if it made a difference) and all that.

Primaris are going to be good regardless of what Templars get.

 

TDA are going to be much better too especially with that new strat

 

Its a good time for SM

[Sete]

On that I agree, not complaining about the rules. Either way I'm starting an army. I would prefer BT to a DiY tho.

[Ciler]

Its a good time for SM

Yep. I mean it's straight buffs pretty much all around with new units, traits that got expanded, etc. The only possible downside are some point values increases (thunder hammers for characters) and minor tweaks that make Guilliman somewhat less desirable (I'd call a good thing myself but I could see why UM players may not like the notion)...

 

My main concern is that there starts to be a pattern. Chaos V2 codex was also a buff (though not quite in the same manner as the heretic chapter "traits" did not get buffed), so I hope we're not just seeing a wave of power creep that'll put us in the dumps again the second the eldar dex gets revamped...

 

Having said that, and regardless of tabletop efficacy, I really do like our "ignore mortal wound on 5+" new trait, it's so fluffy with regard to the main source of MW being psykers.

[balordazul]

I have given away all my primaries models and have just been playing with my classic BT line.  I explained this to my gaming friends that I will support the primaris line when they either completely move away from the classic range or provide me with an equivalent in play style of a crusader squad. 

 

So I'm likely in a holding pattern for another 5 to 10 years on my monetary support for the SM model line.

[Lippy]

Also guys, we have shield drones! So the new bodygaurd rule works like so. If you fail a save, a bodygaurd unit nearby on 2+ takes the attack instead and suffers a SINGLE mortal wound.

 

Then due to our chapter tactics we get a 5+++ on our veterans.

 

Wheres the source for this? Is it the list that popped up earlier that came across as a bit of a wishlist? the one where neophytes do mortal wounds on 6's?

[Marshal Vespasian]

BT gain a fnp against Mortal Wounds

On a 2+ company Champions take a wound for a character that becomes a mortal wound.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

No, you can take both. That's the rules.

No, you can not. Read the Codex mate - the Chapter Master Stratagem explicitly states that you can not have more than one Chapter Master from the same Chapter in your army. Helbrecht has the Chapter Master and Black Templars keywords, so you can’t take both Helbrecht and use the Chapter Master Stratagem on another Black Templar.

 

Now, new Codex so that wording might change, but I’ll eat my hat - actually I’ll have to go buy a hat and then eat it - if that restriction goes away. After all, barring Warp shenanigans, having two Chapter Masters from the same Chapter on the same battlefield at the same time doesn’t quite work.

KombatWombat, you'd better buy yourself that hat...

 

 

 

(Although, to be fair, there are no Chapter Master models in the codex, as they will all be in the supplements, so I anticipate we may see that restriction in those.)

Edited August 15, 2019 by Brother Adelard

[Closet Skeleton]

Read it again, the restriction is right there in the first sentence.

 

 

Use this stratagem before the battle if your army does not include a CHAPTER MASTER model.

 

So its changed but only to make it more restrictive. Before you could have Calgar and a Crimson Fists Captain and then still upgrade the Captain because he was a different chapter, now you can't even do that. Dante is from a effectively unrelated book but he has the keyword so he blocks you using the stratagem if you ally him in.

[Lippy]

BT gain a fnp against Mortal Wounds

On a 2+ company Champions take a wound for a character that becomes a mortal wound.

Aha, sorry I misunderstood and thought it was this ‘neophyte meat shield rule’

[kombatwombat]

As Closet Skeleton said, I think my diet will remain hat-free.

 

I think I’ll buy a pair of glasses instead. The quality of that photo is atrocious!

 

Edit: Also, on that point, could somebody who speaks fluent pixel tell me if that says ‘models within 6” of a chapter master can reroll’ or ‘models in a unit that is within 6” of a chapter master can reroll’?

Edited August 15, 2019 by kombatwombat

[Acebaur]

As Closet Skeleton said, I think my diet will remain hat-free.

 

I think I’ll buy a pair of glasses instead. The quality of that photo is atrocious!

 

Edit: Also, on that point, could somebody who speaks fluent pixel tell me if that says ‘models within 6” of a chapter master can reroll’ or ‘models in a unit that is within 6” of a chapter master can reroll’?

Its units in 6" and the pic is crystal clear if you click on it even on mobile (which is what I'm on

[kombatwombat]

Ah, thank you Acebaur. That’s good news.

[The Spanish Inquisitor]

So someone on a french forum have been told that Black Templars would not be in the IF supplément, but they would receive rules in a vigilus-style supplément.

 

This source have been proved reliable with certain news for the SM codex, like doctrines, before it has been revealed.

[War Angel]

On gorilla tactics gaming he reviewed all three books and during the ultramarines supplement he said that the codex says there’s supplements for the 6 First founding, crimson fist, AND black Templar. I don’t know if he was being literal or if he was making a minor speculation towards the fact that (according to his codex review) the codex says “bloodangles darkangles and codex don’t get their own supplements because they will have their own books”

[The Spanish Inquisitor]

Well almost everybody, including me, assumed that BT were included in the IF supplement. We will find out soon :)

[Sete]

So someone on a french forum have been told that Black Templars would not be in the IF supplément, but they would receive rules in a vigilus-style supplément.

 

This source have been proved reliable with certain news for the SM codex, like doctrines, before it has been revealed.

So psychic awakening, October.

[Marshal Reinhard]

On gorilla tactics gaming he reviewed all three books and during the ultramarines supplement he said that the codex says there’s supplements for the 6 First founding, crimson fist, AND black Templar. I don’t know if he was being literal or if he was making a minor speculation towards the fact that (according to his codex review) the codex says “bloodangles darkangles and codex don’t get their own supplements because they will have their own books”

 

Well, supplements for the 6 first founding, Crimsons Fists and Black Templars would essentially mean that each chapter that has official chapter tactics in the codex would get a supplement. Makes sense. 

 

But I'll believe it when I see it.

 

About a vigilus style supplement, would that give use enough space I wonder? Seeing as in vigilus they squeezed in like one datasheet?

 

So many questions needing answers....

[Sete]

Do the UM and WS supplements even cover their Sucessors?

This rumour actually makes sense. But unless we feature prominently, like UM in Vigilus, and with model release, unlike gathering storm, might be worth the wait. And would fit with our new CT to avoid Mortal wounds.

Also that Aquilla rumour pic, could really be Grimaldus servitor. 

When the IF supplement releases, everything will be made clear.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Sete

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Sod hats, I'll get my coat!

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Anywho, moving on from that... Embarrassment.

 

I've been through the new codex, and I really am hoping for our own supplement now, as we are not mentioned in this one much at all.

 

We have a slightly bigger entry in the IF successor chapters list than most. (As with Crimson Fists) but nothing like what we had with the last book.

 

There are no pictures of our chapter in the photos section... (Even the CF got one.) Which is concerning, do they even have a Studio Primaris BT army?? I can't recall the last time I saw a new model painted BT..? Hopeful me wonders if they're hiding some nice upgrade bits from us?

 

The rules are generally a nice surprise as we've seen, except for the fact Oathkeeper survived the transfer. Vindicators also became D6 shots, which makes them a little more intriguing. The Teeth also became straight +3 attacks, not D3.

 

What I would have liked is a stratagem to skip to the Assault Doctrine, all you have is Adaptive Strategy, which allows you to go back a doctrine. (So, Assault back to Tactical, or Tactical back to Devastator.)

Orbital Bombardment also doesn't require the Warlord to remain stationary anymore, which is a nice buff.

Intercessors also benefit from a lot of stratagems, there's a nice one which allows stalker bolt rifle intercessors to target characters. (Not very Templar perhaps, but rather nice.)

[Sete]

No pictures? weird. Could be good, could be bad. They might be hiding new cool stuff, they might not have anything at all.

Well this just strengthens my resolve of not buying it until we have news. Haven't played since the primaris debut, whats a few more months?

I assume this Saturday we will have some pdf rules?

Edited August 16, 2019 by Sete

[Ciler]

What I would have liked is a stratagem to skip to the Assault Doctrine,

Perhaps they are saving that for later, either us or our fellow assault oriented BA/SW ?