Discussion on the new C:SM & Possible BT supplement

[Sword Brother Adelard]

You alright Sete? That's a bit of a miserly outlook.

[Bryan Blaire]

You detail the ultramarines, you detail their successors.

Read Spears of the Emperor and see just how wrong you are... there are Ultramarines Successors that would be better classified as independent Chapters than actually hailing from Ultramarines lineage by anything other than their gene stock.

 

It would actually be really interesting to see GW detail some of these “non-conformers” to their lineage norms in some other fashion, and maybe even some kind of value to the commonality of the incidence of this type of change in warfare or other doctrine per gene line.

[Schlitzaf]

Adel! Your Optimism sustains me! Also forgot about our own contrast paint. I am much less worried now

[Sete]

You alright Sete? That's a bit of a miserly outlook.

I'm sorry, just a bit apprehensive about all this.

[Marshal Vespasian]

Them moving datasheets from codex to supplement hopefully means a quick release schedule thats one and done in a few weeks.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Faith brothers. It's already better. Even just an extra attack on first round of combat almost takes us back to the glory days of 3rd edition.

 

Drop Grimaldus in the middle with even his current aura, and maybe a new litany, and we may actually stop hitting like wet fish in combat again! I may dust off my CCW crusaders!

[Medjugorje]

BT dudes didn't pass the Rubicon. Done and dusted.

 

It's a gloomy prospect, but still a real possibility.

exactly what i thought... Until now (8th edition) Helbrecht never used to have good rules. So he maybe wasnt sold that good and thats why GW think we dont want him again... The Emperors champion instead is so much beloved and get a Primaris Version.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

You detail the ultramarines, you detail their successors.

Read Spears of the Emperor and see just how wrong you are... there are Ultramarines Successors that would be better classified as independent Chapters than actually hailing from Ultramarines lineage by anything other than their gene stock.

 

 

I mean primarily in a crunch manner. Afaik no ultramarine successor has crunch that sets them apart from the UM. (Possibl exception being that FW supplement for 6th of 7th edition that listed some chapter tactics for later founding chapters?) so, I feel my argument stands despite fluff evidence to the contrary.

 

To contrast to the IF vs BT crunch situation, when it comes to unique crunch we overshadow the IF. But I'm under no illusion that we'll feature more prominently than IF in their own supplement (provided we are even included... there's still a chance we'll get something like the Blood ravens did, instead)

[The Pounder]

I’m really hoping for ANY reason to reboot my Black Templars.

As it was I couldn’t get into a zealous mindset with my Black Ultramarines.

I wasn’t interested in another gunline army.

 

What we do know is that there will be 6 Supplements to start. Ultramarines and White Scars are confirmed, so I’d imagine IF and successors will be another, sadly I can’t see a pure Black Templars being in the initial wave. (Hoping to be proven wrong!)

 

I want Primaris Sword Brethren and an Emperor’s Champion!

 

Also some sort of aggressive troop choice.

 

Guess we’ll find out soon enough. I remain optimistic.

[Schlitzaf]

Here a simple fact we all know 2A Chain > 1 PW (in mathematical efficiency)

 

Now here a piece of trivia.

3A Chain (13pts) hit 2 wound 1 (0.33 dead/4.33 points earn i.e every 4 spends you earn 1.44 points)

2A Power Weapon (17) hit 1.32 then wound 0.66 (kill 0.55 or just over 7 points. I.e for every 2.4 points you spend you earn roughly 1 point)

 

This means Crusader Squad 1A Power Weapons are points efficient. What also to be noted it’s EVERY FIRST round of combat so it was better than old charge rules. We can discuss how it might affect us in a lasting combat. But at the very least. We always get it. This makes the like of “Law” Marshall variations much much stronger.

[Sete]

Lemondish brought this to my attention;

 

 

The supplements will be only for the first founding chapters of codex Space Marines.

Dont expect sucessors there.

Sorry, Sete - from today's pre-order announcement:

 

"However, if you seek to take your dedication to the First Founding Chapters (and their successors) to the next level, that’s where the codex supplements come in…"

 

Sounds like the famous successors will be in the Imperial Fists supplement.

This is one of my questions covered.

Now upgrade sprue and caracthers remains to be seen.

I want to be optimistic, but I still have Angels of Death and Gathering Storm nightmares.

 

The IF supplement release can cover at least 5 caracthers:

Lysander, Pedro, Helbrecth,Grimaldus,and Emperor Champion and God Emperor wills it 2 upgrade sprues.

It's a substantial release.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Good. A moderate boosting of our more numerous combat units is what we've been crying out for all along. We've had good characters all edition, which then for better after Vigilus and the points drops for Grim and Helbrecht, but what they've been lacking is decent support. The boosts to company Veterans were nice, but without numbers above 5 in those squads, it wasn't a massive boon.

 

And do you know what, I think I could take losing Helbrecht through the Rubicon, Grimaldus less so, and the Champion should really have either two data sheets going forwards, one Primaris, one not. Or one which just reflects the Champion regardless of bloodline, but a model for both.

[Sete]

Helbrecth is my favourite. I hope he makes it lol.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I want Grimaldus more, but I see no reason not to have both

[Marshal Vespasian]

Company Champs with us popping the strat on the charge will be 16 Power fist and 5 thunderhammer Hits rerolling wounds. Or 21 sword Hits rerolling wounds.

 

I am incredibly excited about the litanies and combat doctrines

[Sete]

After a hearthy meal my mood improved!

I think even with intercessors we will pack a punch.

I will definitely be using Power Swords on my Sargents.

Fingers crossed for some Rubicon shenanigans and upgrade sprue (with proper knightly power swords am I right ;) )

[Sword Brother Adelard]

That's one thing I'm less enthused about. The sprue. I'm quite tempted to buy one of the current ones to have in stock, the new ones have all been a little small for my liking.

 

And they won't have the most useful bit. The sheathed powersword, by far the easiest way to make a WYSIWYG Primaris SB with sword.

 

Thinking about it, intercessors are going to be lethal with Bolter Discipline AND 3 attacks.

[Sete]

Dont think our old one is going away.

But since currently we lack a transfer sheet and a specific primaris upgrade, I like to assume that we might get one.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Ironically, that's the one thing I'm pretty sure will get squatted!

[Sete]

I think while firstborne are selling so will the chapter sprue.

[Othniel's Blade]

This is actually what I put as my suggestion in the Survey... almost exactly.

BT will almost definitely be in the IF supplement, which is a good thing. Basic astartes are all in main codex, so any specialty datasheets will be in the supplement- with the lack of specialty IF characters/units right now, I'd be hopeful for a lot of BT and CF space within. Maybe the Executioners will get some love too post-Badab.

[Sete]

Full spreadsheet of the Eternal Crusader please.

I wanna know where is the abandoned librarium ;)

[AlmightyWalrus]

Chaplain litanies confirmed. I know "hope is the first step on the road to disappointment" and all that, but hot damn, I hope the litanies are good.

[Medjugorje]

Lemondish brought this to my attention;

 

 

The supplements will be only for the first founding chapters of codex Space Marines.

Dont expect sucessors there.

Sorry, Sete - from today's pre-order announcement:

 

"However, if you seek to take your dedication to the First Founding Chapters (and their successors) to the next level, that’s where the codex supplements come in…"

 

Sounds like the famous successors will be in the Imperial Fists supplement.

This is one of my questions covered.

Now upgrade sprue and caracthers remains to be seen.

I want to be optimistic, but I still have Angels of Death and Gathering Storm nightmares.

 

The IF supplement release can cover at least 5 caracthers:

Lysander, Pedro, Helbrecth,Grimaldus,and Emperor Champion and God Emperor wills it 2 upgrade sprues.

It's a substantial release.

 

maybe there is a Captain Cortez too.

 

@Othniels Blade - I dont think its a good Thing to be in the Imperial Fist Supplement... Would be so much better to have our own or being in a Supplement called "Sons of Dorn/Last Wall"...

 

Why? because we all know how big is our part in the current Codex as a annoying relic appendage.

 

 

 

 

But another Thing:

 

What would changes the new attack with current rules (and i expect no nerfs - just buffs in the new Codex).

 

Do you think Terminators and other Units are now good?

Litanies of Faith could be buffs to reach CC better like +1 to chargerolls (in Addition to our chapter tactics) - would make our Chaplains really good.

[redmapa]

Veteran Intercessors, Vanguard Veterans and Terminators (specially lighting claw terminators) are now really freaking good, perhaps not tournament tier but 4 attacks on each model will mulch pretty much any infantry.