Discussion on the new C:SM & Possible BT supplement

[JAG Templar]

I think in a vacuum the changes to our Chapter Tactics are excellent. The charge part finally works the way it was supposed to (the FAQ that made us roll both dice was particularly cruel!). The FNP is a nice little bonus and it’s great that it applies to the whole detachment.

 

When considered against the other chapters, our tactics are still good but not the best. Hard to tell at this stage because we don’t know relics and warlord traits but Ultramarines, Salamanders, and Iron Hands look great. Black Templars, White Scars, Imperial Fists are good with an army that is geared to take advantage of that particular Tactic (which is what Chapters are all about). Raven Guard seemingly got a nerf but perhaps that’s a bit negative.

 

I’m really really interested in Chaplain liturgies. If we get chapter specific boosts in this area, we may be able to offset our lack of witch powers.

[Marshal Arthur]

In excited for this. The vicious detachment was fun and flavorful and all of this just keeps building my interest. For the last several months I’ve basically moved to purely kill team but this might get me back in the regular game.

[Kastor Krieg]

With the coming Psychic Awitchening, our 5++ vs Mortals might prove veeeery handy.

[Marshal Arthur]

Plus it synergizes well with company vets tanking wounds for hqs and basically gives us one of our Vigilus stratagems for free. Hopefully our supplement will include the Vigilus detachment as well so we can keep buffing our sword brethren.

[+Chaplain Matthias+]

With the coming Psychic Awitchening, our 5++ vs Mortals might prove veeeery handy.

Plot twist: Psychic Awakening is a new starter box and global campaign focusing on Black Templars...and them reinstating their Librarius.

 

Joking. No one kick me. I'll just go now

Edited August 6, 2019 by +Chaplain Matthias+

[Medjugorje]

It’s 64pages for the WS one, 80 pages for ultramarines one. So they vary in size, don’t despair just yet.

Imperial Fists get 150 pages (+70 for themselves)

 

 

What's really funny is that we just gained a 5+ fnp on things like dreadnoughts taking hits from things like hellfire shells.

or Vindicare Assassines....

What's really funny is that we just gained a 5+ fnp on things like dreadnoughts taking hits from things like hellfire shells.

or Vindicare Assassines....

Edited August 6, 2019 by Medjugorje

[Medjugorje]

 

 

 

 

Ok, so being pretty unfamiliar with 8th, Angels of Death on Sword Brethren from the detachment coming out of a Crusader is really good now, but only five models?

Yes because the SB detachment is for company vets who are max 5 man squads

That blows

They are still a good unit. I wish tda and VV got it but it is what it is. Helbrecht, and captains get it too

 

 

Do you think it was a balance thing? Not including it on Terminators?

 

no - because the Ultramarines get this for free... I think it was a test - AND maybe we get this Stratagem for all units  in this codex. What makes us THE melee chapter 

 

 

If the Do something for lrcs and terminators I will be incredibly happy.

It'd be great to get something like the old assault ramp rule back. Let units disembark after moving or the Tank charge and then disembark or something like that

 

 

Agressors or inceptors charging do mortal wounds for example.

 disembark  6" instead of 3" -  so we cant get surrounded

 

 

Would this new CT stack with FNP? As they’re two separate rules?

 

If yes, could our sword brothers tank a wound from a character, 5++ CT save, 5++ FNP?

 

That would make our dudes pretty survivable

no - not  because of wording and because it was clearly said in an early faq that you cannot roll 2 times for fnp.

But maybe the 5++ on Vigilus will be in the codex and says +2 for a fnp roll...

 

 

I suppose we will know about model support next week with the codex preview.

If we have new models and sprue I'm sure they will be present in the book.

 

i dont think so. I expect the special charakters all in the supplements and to this date we can play the Charakters sheets from the old dex

 

 

 

Would this new CT stack with FNP? As they’re two separate rules?

 

If yes, could our sword brothers tank a wound from a character, 5++ CT save, 5++ FNP?

 

That would make our dudes pretty survivable

Do you get a FNP from mortal sounds?

 

 When the sound is played by an Noise Marine,... 

If the Do something for lrcs and terminators I will be incredibly happy.

It'd be great to get something like the old assault ramp rule back. Let units disembark after moving or the Tank charge and then disembark or something like that

 

 

Agressors or inceptors charging do mortal wounds for example.

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Medjugorje

[Medjugorje]

I think in a vacuum the changes to our Chapter Tactics are excellent. The charge part finally works the way it was supposed to (the FAQ that made us roll both dice was particularly cruel!). The FNP is a nice little bonus and it’s great that it applies to the whole detachment.

 

When considered against the other chapters, our tactics are still good but not the best. Hard to tell at this stage because we don’t know relics and warlord traits but Ultramarines, Salamanders, and Iron Hands look great. Black Templars, White Scars, Imperial Fists are good with an army that is geared to take advantage of that particular Tactic (which is what Chapters are all about). Raven Guard seemingly got a nerf but perhaps that’s a bit negative.

 

I’m really really interested in Chaplain liturgies. If we get chapter specific boosts in this area, we may be able to offset our lack of witch powers.

I think very different. Ultramarines are not really better... but IH, Salamanders and CF are TOP TIER I

[Ciler]

I think in a vacuum the changes to our Chapter Tactics are excellent. The charge part finally works the way it was supposed to (the FAQ that made us roll both dice was particularly cruel!). The FNP is a nice little bonus and it’s great that it applies to the whole detachment.

Yet this change, for all that it is welcomed, doesn't address our main current issue, which is that we have no strong CC unit. Making charges more reliable is all well and nice, but we don't have anything to charge with.

 

Hopefully either the general book or the BT supplement will have a decent CC primaris unit.

[Medjugorje]

 

I think in a vacuum the changes to our Chapter Tactics are excellent. The charge part finally works the way it was supposed to (the FAQ that made us roll both dice was particularly cruel!). The FNP is a nice little bonus and it’s great that it applies to the whole detachment.

Yet this change, for all that it is welcomed, doesn't address our main current issue, which is that we have no strong CC unit. Making charges more reliable is all well and nice, but we don't have anything to charge with.

 

Hopefully either the general book or the BT supplement will have a decent CC primaris unit.

 

we dont know it yet... Reroll any hit roll is a major buff when it comes to ChapterMaster/Chaplain + ThunderHammer Terminators.

Then we dont know what stratagems are in this book and how the chaplain buff "lithanies of faith" will work. THEN we know that we get +1 attack for EACH model in the first turn. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

I think there might be something (finally) in wave 3.0... I just hope it isn't years until we get to that

[Ciler]

THEN we know that we get +1 attack for EACH model in the first turn.

No, we don't get, everyone does. So in marine vs marine matchup (inc our chaos boïz), this isn't a buff.

[JAG Templar]

 

 

I think in a vacuum the changes to our Chapter Tactics are excellent. The charge part finally works the way it was supposed to (the FAQ that made us roll both dice was particularly cruel!). The FNP is a nice little bonus and it’s great that it applies to the whole detachment.

 

When considered against the other chapters, our tactics are still good but not the best. Hard to tell at this stage because we don’t know relics and warlord traits but Ultramarines, Salamanders, and Iron Hands look great. Black Templars, White Scars, Imperial Fists are good with an army that is geared to take advantage of that particular Tactic (which is what Chapters are all about). Raven Guard seemingly got a nerf but perhaps that’s a bit negative.

 

I’m really really interested in Chaplain liturgies. If we get chapter specific boosts in this area, we may be able to offset our lack of witch powers.

I think very different. Ultramarines are not really better... but IH, Salamanders and CF are TOP TIER I

I still think Ultramarines are in the top bracket, with those others you have named. Sure they kept the same Chapter Tactics and it has diminishing returns as so many of the future vehicles have fly. But no doubt they will have amazing relics, traits and characters (speculation at this stage of course).

[Closet Skeleton]

Chaplain prays puts us in the same camp as World Eaters as having magic access for the first time. Taking two Chaplains for buff variety sounds good but at 100 points each I'm not sure that's going to work.

 

 

Full spreadsheet of the Eternal Crusader please.
I wanna know where is the abandoned librarium

 

Lost, not abandoned, nobody knows where it is.

 

 

What's really funny is that we just gained a 5+ fnp on things like dreadnoughts taking hits from things like hellfire shells.

 

A general zeal that just happens to be good against psykers makes more sense than the old adamantine will.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

Full spreadsheet of the Eternal Crusader please.

I wanna know where is the abandoned librarium

 

Lost, not abandoned, nobody knows where it is.

 

 

 

Err, yes we do. There's literally a bit in Eternal Crusader where Helbrecht walks past the door, covered in purity seals..

[Medjugorje]

 

THEN we know that we get +1 attack for EACH model in the first turn.

No, we don't get, everyone does. So in marine vs marine matchup (inc our chaos boïz), this isn't a buff.

 

but the others dont achieve that so easy... 

[Medjugorje]

Chaplain prays puts us in the same camp as World Eaters as having magic access for the first time. Taking two Chaplains for buff variety sounds good but at 100 points each I'm not sure that's going to work.

 

 

hmmm we dont know if Grimaldus has changed... I write it often to games workshop a few points...

 

- the mortal wound mechanic is not good for marines

- orks can reroll 1 or all dice if they failed a charge

- melee marines need a buff

 

.. all things GeDub recognized

 

and in addition i wrote that

- Grimaldus (one of my fav. chars) has total BS rules^^

[Sete]

We need the full picture before we go all doom and gloom, and hey I'm the doom and gloom guy.

 

Kick back enjoy the ride and cross your fingers for upgrade sprues and redone chars.

Extra faith if we get intercessors crusader squads (that may be a tad too much)

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Your outlook on this release has peaked and troughed so much these past three days!

[Sete]

Your outlook on this release has peaked and troughed so much these past three days!

Lack of information makes me nervous.

Now I do think we are in a good place, and if we receive one or 2 primaris chars and sprues, this will be the best release we had for a while.

[Marshal Reinhard]

We need new chaplain models in general. More chaplains are always better. 

 

Better still if one of them tells the Sallies with their new shiny CT to still get out of his city

[Sete]

I asked about BT primaris chars and supplement:

 

We don't have any information on this, but it's always a possibility that we could see some Primaris Black Templars characters, or maybe even a codex or supplement in future. If we do hear of such a thing you'll be sure to hear it here first.

 

While this is the standard we wont tell answer, I do like that they bring up the possibility of chars and supplement.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Sete

[Medjugorje]

yeah... in last month i asked the same question, the answer used to sound not that positive although it confirm nothing.

[Ciler]

There's NO WAY they aren't making a BT supplement.

 

Now, this may take a while, I'll grant you that, but there's no way we're getting squatted.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Squatted is not a realistic alternative. But there's a wealth of alternatives between that and getting our own codex supplement (Though we all know we should get one)