Discussion on the new C:SM & Possible BT supplement

[kombatwombat]

Well, I never did think I’d hear the words ‘progressive’ and ‘Black Templar’ together.

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

The TLDR; To me, psykers and the Black Templar's interactions with them don't particularly matter to me.  We are kind of hypocritical in that way...using astropaths, navigators, and other sanctioned psykers (Sisters of Battle anyone?).  But then we don't tolerate others roaming the galaxy, for the good reason of potential daemon possession.  Seems whimsical.   

 

 

But you see, astropaths, navigators and other sanctioned psykers aren't witches, they're astropaths, navigators and sanctioned psykers. It's totally different and therefore okay 

 

(actually being fairly serious here, such hypocricy, which we can call it, is fairly common)

[Brother Carpenter]

Agreed the hypochricy is part of my bt love.

And I've seen restrictions come and go. Started bt before armagheddon when they were codex compliant, after armagheddon, no devs and whirlwhind, mandatory emp champ ect, and I loved them even more.

I do hope that librarians remain a no go.

[Smirnov]

 

 

The TLDR; To me, psykers and the Black Templar's interactions with them don't particularly matter to me.  We are kind of hypocritical in that way...using astropaths, navigators, and other sanctioned psykers (Sisters of Battle anyone?).  But then we don't tolerate others roaming the galaxy, for the good reason of potential daemon possession.  Seems whimsical.   

 

 

But you see, astropaths, navigators and other sanctioned psykers aren't witches, they're astropaths, navigators and sanctioned psykers. It's totally different and therefore okay 

 

(actually being fairly serious here, such hypocricy, which we can call it, is fairly common)

 

And here's the next logical steps: Rune Priesrs aren't librarians/witches either, sooooo

[Marshal Reinhard]

Says who?

[Sete]

Ignoring memes, rune priests are librarians. Edited August 31, 2019 by Sete

[The Spanish Inquisitor]

Gotta ask Spanish Inquisitor if he knows anything else? I know Kikassou has posted more stuff, and basically says Ghaz vs Ragnar and if we have a BT box no IC, and a long time without anything new if I understood correctly.

Kirioth has a different rumour all together.

And I read somewhere that a dude from ITC said that all 8 chapters with a CT would have a Supplement.

Nothing new, I will post here if something comes up. 

[Ciler]

Says who?

Says Leman Russ actually. I think it's in A Thousand Sons or Prospero Burns, can't remember exactly, but he dienies any ties between the Thousand Sons librarians who draw their power from the Warp and his rune priests who draw it from the natural cycle of Fenris (even when not on Fenris). To the best of my knowledge it is never clarified whether Russ actually believes this or is just being a terrible hypocrite.

[Sete]

Well then stormseers aren't librarians then.

"The Stormseers believe that their powers are connected to the animistic spirits of the land and the air, and that as long as these natural forces fight beside them, the White Scars will always be victorious. These elemental, animistic beliefs and the highly stylized Force Staff used by Stormseers tie these warrior-mystics to their shamanistic past on the steppes of Chogoris."

 

And all this is terribly off topic.

The chapter does not use witches, and that's it.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Sete

[Marshal Reinhard]

Anyway, its obvious Templars need the use of astropaths and navigators unless they wanna be planet locked. These have always been in use, Edict of Nikea says nothing of them, they were never in question. The chapter cannot function without them as there is no imperial alternative, no webway.

 

The use of them is not even on the same level as making use of witches. There is no room to wiggle something else in, because other chapters are deluded into calling their psykers something else, Templar's aren't gonna try and lawyer something in.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Well then stormseers aren't librarians then.

"The Stormseers believe that their powers are connected to the animistic spirits of the land and the air, and that as long as these natural forces fight beside them, the White Scars will always be victorious. These elemental, animistic beliefs and the highly stylized Force Staff used by Stormseers tie these warrior-mystics to their shamanistic past on the steppes of Chogoris."

 

And all this is terribly off topic.

The chapter does not use witches, and that's it.

Nah, the Stormseers know it's the Warp. Tesugei is pretty clear on that point in Jaghatai's Primarch book. That's why they were so vital in the formation of the Librarius discipline in the first place, and spoke at Nikea.

 

Ciler's right on what Russ said about Rune Priests. The TSons accuse them heavily of hypocrisy in Magnus' Primarch book.

 

But your final point stands. We're not getting Librarians. Not without some absolutely massive lore/fluff change or reveal. And it would have to be impossibly game changing. So I don't see it happening.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Anyway, its obvious Templars need the use of astropaths and navigators unless they wanna be planet locked. These have always been in use, Edict of Nikea says nothing of them, they were never in question. The chapter cannot function without them as there is no imperial alternative, no webway.

 

The use of them is not even on the same level as making use of witches. There is no room to wiggle something else in, because other chapters are deluded into calling their psykers something else, Templar's aren't gonna try and lawyer something in.

I really hope that a new supplement clarifies these parts of the lore. I always thought the original lore, that we refuse to work alongside Astropaths or Navigators made little sense in a dispersed fleet based chapter. I thought retconning that made sense.

 

However, I didn't like the over reverent worship of them in Haley's early books. The balance was well struck in TBA, where we 'tolerate' them, and they know we don't like them.

[Sete]

 

Well then stormseers aren't librarians then.

"The Stormseers believe that their powers are connected to the animistic spirits of the land and the air, and that as long as these natural forces fight beside them, the White Scars will always be victorious. These elemental, animistic beliefs and the highly stylized Force Staff used by Stormseers tie these warrior-mystics to their shamanistic past on the steppes of Chogoris."

 

And all this is terribly off topic.

The chapter does not use witches, and that's it.

Nah, the Stormseers know it's the Warp. Tesugei is pretty clear on that point in Jaghatai's Primarch book. That's why they were so vital in the formation of the Librarius discipline in the first place, and spoke at Nikea.

 

Ciler's right on what Russ said about Rune Priests. The TSons accuse them heavily of hypocrisy in Magnus' Primarch book.

 

But your final point stands. We're not getting Librarians. Not without some absolutely massive lore/fluff change or reveal. And it would have to be impossibly game changing. So I don't see it happening.

I was being sarcastic. Both Stormseers and Rune priests use the warp. ;)

 

I agree that Haley did us some disservice, but I dont think he is writing BT anymore. Dont think anyone is lol

Edited August 31, 2019 by Sete

[Brother Sheep]

Why the discussion though?

There is a specific sentence in the NEW codex (same as in the first 8th edition codex).

No librarians for black templar.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Why the discussion though?

There is a specific sentence in the NEW codex (same as in the first 8th edition codex).

No librarians for black templar.

The discussion won't die Sheep because some people have developed a massive inferiority complex and are convinced we are just one update away from GW changing 20 years of lore and fluff and giving us Librarians.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I was being sarcastic. Both Stormseers and Rune priests use the warp. ;)

Oh yeah, I know you know it's all the warp.

 

I just didn't know if you knew that they knew it was the warp.

 

You know?

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

Anyway, its obvious Templars need the use of astropaths and navigators unless they wanna be planet locked. These have always been in use, Edict of Nikea says nothing of them, they were never in question. The chapter cannot function without them as there is no imperial alternative, no webway.

 

The use of them is not even on the same level as making use of witches. There is no room to wiggle something else in, because other chapters are deluded into calling their psykers something else, Templar's aren't gonna try and lawyer something in.

I really hope that a new supplement clarifies these parts of the lore. I always thought the original lore, that we refuse to work alongside Astropaths or Navigators made little sense in a dispersed fleet based chapter. I thought retconning that made sense.

 

It didn't, and it wasn't. It makes no mention of Astropaths and Navigators.

 

Astropaths and Navigators aren't witches, were never witches, and on account of that we have never Abhorred them. We abhor witches.

 

This is the essence of the hypocricy if you will. They are never classified as witches so they never factor into the conversation. Protesting this with "but aren't they all psykers alike?" The hypocricy doesn't care.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Navigators are filthy mutants though.

[Acebaur]

BT don't have librarians, it's restricted in the new codex just like it always has. End of discussion because it's off topic.

 

Any future OT posts will just be purged like a filthy witch without regard to collateral damage.

[Marshal Laeroth]

Space Marine FAQ released and Vigilus book is good to go to continue use, as expected.

[Acebaur]

They also released a FAQ that erratas the index units to have angels of death and the chaplains to have litanies!

 

WE RIDE AGAIN BROTHERS!

[Kyliadan]

"Designer’s Note: This ability is only applied to the Drop Pod datasheet found in these codexes, and not to similar models found in other publications. "
 

If i'm reading this right, they still won't give the drop pod assault rule to the FW dreadnought one, right ?
 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

"Designer’s Note: This ability is only applied to the Drop Pod datasheet found in these codexes, and not to similar models found in other publications. "

 

If i'm reading this right, they still won't give the drop pod assault rule to the FW dreadnought one, right ?

 

Yarp. Darn it.

 

But, in good news. Vigilus confirmation, plus Index units getting Angels of Death, is very good news for Company Vets on Bikes...

[Marshal Laeroth]

They also released a FAQ that erratas the index units to have angels of death and the chaplains to have litanies!

 

WE RIDE AGAIN BROTHERS!

 

Perhaps I missed this part...mind if you link it to me?  I thought they only FAQed the Imperial Armour Index:  Forces of Adeptus Astartes book to have Angels of Death, not the Index: 1 book.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

They updated the errata as well. Check the original link again, it appeared later in the day.