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Discussion on the new C:SM & Possible BT supplement

The Spanish Inquisitor
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Marshal Arthur Veteran

Marshal Arthur

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Not necessarily. If they focus on LRCs and Crusader Squads then they're just improving two Templar favored units and giving us what so many people have asked for, in which case once close combat Primaris are added they'll probably add new rules to give them Templar flavor.

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Acebaur Venerable Brother

Acebaur

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So i assume that by Spanish Inquisitor comment our rules will be still Oldmarines focused. Thats not good on the long run.

Scouts are not technically oldmarines. Primaris are created from scouts the same as classic marines.

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Kyliadan Novitiate

Kyliadan

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So, let's speculate a bit, if the rumor proved 100% true and we were able to disembark from a LRC after it moved and charge without overwatch etc, would that be enough to warrant its return en masse on the tabletop ? Or would the cons still outweigh the pros (apart from fluffy lists/friendly games) ?

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redmapa Veteran

redmapa

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So, let's speculate a bit, if the rumor proved 100% true and we were able to disembark from a LRC after it moved and charge without overwatch etc, would that be enough to warrant its return en masse on the tabletop ? Or would the cons still outweigh the pros (apart from fluffy lists/friendly games) ?

 

It would certainly be a nice excuse for me to bring 3 Land Raiders and just go ham with them but if you are talking about competitive then no, its just a nice gimmick and its main issues are that all the really good close combat units in the codex dont need a transport and loading 45 Crusaders might be a good horde but you will still need something to kill vehicles or other heavier units so basing a list on Crusaders and Land Raiders is just expending a lot of points for a one turn gimmick and I would argue that if you are bringing only one Land Raider then you will need to bring more Vehicles to dilute your opponents anit-tank and give that Land Raider a chance, so thats either more Land Raiders or similarly expensive vehicles like Executioners.

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Sword Brother Adelard Venerable Brother

Sword Brother Adelard

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So i assume that by Spanish Inquisitor comment our rules will be still Oldmarines focused. Thats not good on the long run.

Scouts are not technically oldmarines. Primaris are created from scouts the same as classic marines.

 

 

I love this bit of lore, but I am a bit tickled over how much you keep having to remind people of it.

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Link2edition Veteran

Link2edition

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I would like to appreciate that the rumor about the order of releases seems to be true, even though the rumor channel stated it didnt make sense.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/08/coming-next-week-iron-and-shadow/

what was the rumored order?

 

Ironhands + Raven next

 

Then Salamanders Imperial fists

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SydonianDragoon404 Battle-Brother

SydonianDragoon404

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Battle report from today: 

 

Played 2k points with the new codex vs. Thousand Sons + Tzeentch Daemons. 

 

His list was:

 

3 Sorcs, Ahriman, 2 daemon princes, 2 10 man rubric squads, a couple squads of horrors, 2 tzeentch chariots, 10 tzaangors, and 5 scarabs. 

Lots of infantry, no vehicles. Good for me. 

 

My List:

 

Brigade, Sword Brethren Detachment

 

Captain, Teeth of Terra/Bolt Pistol

Primaris Captain, Extra wound WL trait, Power Sword

Primaris Lt, Power Sword

Chaplain Dreadnought, Assault Cannon, Imperium Sword WL Trait, Manta of Strength Litany

 

Incursors x6

Intercessors x7 Stalker Rifles

Intercessors x5 Assault Bolt Rifles

Scouts x5, Heavy Bolter

Scouts x5

Scouts x5

 

Inceptors, Plasma x3

Suppressors x3

Bikers x3

 

Sword Brethren, SS/Chainsword x4, SS/PowerFist Sgt

Cenobyte Servitors

Sternguard x10

 

Devastators, 4x GravCannon, Cherub

Thunderfire Cannon

Eliminators

 

I had first turn, and the drop was brutal. I was able to kill half his army on turn 1. After I killed a 10 man squad of Rubrics with the grav cannons alone, the Sternguard blasted a chariot thanks to masterful marksmenship. I was able to easily kill off some squishy daemons with the incursors and other shooting. 

 

Snipers put wounds down on a Daemon prince, brought him low, so I decided what the hell, lets charge the teeth of terra into it. Made the 10'' charge and killed it. It was a devastating alpha strike. 

 

My opponent didn't have the models to retaliate afterwards, and I stayed ahead on objective points. 

 

Also, the Chaplain dreadnought is scary good as long as your opponent doesn't make 12/12 4+ invulnerable saves. He got in it with a Daemon Prince, didn't kill him in 2 rounds of combat with Honor the Chapter, because my opponent made crazy saves, but if that doesn't happen, it literally only takes 2 of those strikes getting through to drop the Daemon Prince with Damage 4 due to Mantra of Strength. 

 

Also, I decided to pair him up with the Sword brethren because he can do a similar thing to Helbrecht, with 1 CP he can at least give them re roll 1s to hit and if they are in combat together he gives out the +1 strength. Also, pairing the dreadnought with those guys can make him incredibly resilient. 

 

Not only can the Sword Brethren take hits for the Chaplain Dread, getting a 5+ against the mortal wound, but the dread has a 5+ invuln, 6+ ignore damage, and can halve damage incoming for 1 CP. It seems to be like all of that makes for a very difficult to kill character dreadnought. 

 

I actually didn't get to use the suppressor cancelling overwatch ability, I didn't need it. Suppressors feel very nice to use. 

 

Looking forward to more games against xenos and such. 

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Mmmmm Napalm Battle-Brother

Mmmmm Napalm

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All I want is an updated upgrade sprue and The Champion and/or Grimaldus to get an updated model.

 

I'm going to assume this will never happen so as not to get my hopes up. The fact that the leaks concern oldmarine stuff gives me even more cause for being cynical

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Medjugorje Veteran

Medjugorje

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hmm 6s autowounds is not that strong as i was hopng for. But maybe we get some nice Stratagems and Relics ( Auto Litany ) and powerful meleebuffs in addition to autowounds.

 

If you compare that with Ultramarines who getting double shots for a lot of units or 2 DAMAGE FLAT... 

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Marshal Valkenhayn Battle-Brother

Marshal Valkenhayn

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The leaks pointing toward original marines couldn't make me happier. Though I can see the concerns people have about us being left behind if we dont' have Primaris support, i don't own any Primaris models, and if I ever build a Primaris army it won't be BT. It'd probably be an Iron Hands army or something. Starting a Primaris crusade would feel too much like turning my back on my boys, and I can't bring myself to do it. So despite the warning lights of 'this might be the last thing we ever get' and the extra toys Primaris get, I can't help it. I'm satisfied.

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Smirnov Veteran

Smirnov

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Oh, I see! Thought there was something more... But with IH+RG announced it's kinda obvious IF ans S are last )

Yes, but this rumor was from back when the codex came out. I am saying it ended up being true, and that gives credit to the source.

 

Yeah,  Igot what you were saying, it was more of derp on my side - I could have easily done the 'math' on which supplements would be next as there are only two left. I'm always gatting blindsided by BA, DA and SW having their separate books :biggrin.:

 

The leaks pointing toward original marines couldn't make me happier. Though I can see the concerns people have about us being left behind if we dont' have Primaris support, i don't own any Primaris models, and if I ever build a Primaris army it won't be BT. It'd probably be an Iron Hands army or something. Starting a Primaris crusade would feel too much like turning my back on my boys, and I can't bring myself to do it. So despite the warning lights of 'this might be the last thing we ever get' and the extra toys Primaris get, I can't help it. I'm satisfied.

Where do you read those leaks?

Edited by Smirnov
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Sete Venerable Brother

Sete

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So i assume that by Spanish Inquisitor comment our rules will be still Oldmarines focused. Thats not good on the long run.

Scouts are not technically oldmarines. Primaris are created from scouts the same as classic marines.

I love this bit of lore, but I am a bit tickled over how much you keep having to remind people of it.

I was refering to the LRC bit. Unless primaris can use them or the same gimmick can be done with Primaris veichle.

 

But now im confused. Eldar are the first book, and BT will come soon after.

Alone? With IF? Another psy awakewning book?

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Marshal Reinhard Venerable Brother

Marshal Reinhard

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All I want is an updated upgrade sprue and The Champion and/or Grimaldus to get an updated model.

 

I'm going to assume this will never happen so as not to get my hopes up. The fact that the leaks concern oldmarine stuff gives me even more cause for being cynical

 

It feels like GW are under the impression we only like old stuff, but since they never give use new stuff they never see much support for new stuff, so they keep just giving us rules for old stuff, when we're well past the point where those won't get new models.

Edited by Reinhard
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Marshal Reinhard Venerable Brother

Marshal Reinhard

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presumably it would still be a lot better than 6th, 7th and 8th 1.0, but we can't tell for sure. Allegedly successor space in WS and UM didn't get much focus at all? Though given that we have our own characters, squad, chapter trait etc, if we were included there or anywhere else, we would still need and get a modicum of space alotted to us.

 

Getting our own codex would obviously be the best option. Not happening. Our chapter tactic is C:SM 2.0. Getting a supplement would still be phenomally good, and not much different from a codex. almost a 100ish pages devoted solely to us? We havent seen that since 4th edition.

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Smirnov Veteran

Smirnov

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presumably it would still be a lot better than 6th, 7th and 8th 1.0, but we can't tell for sure. Allegedly successor space in WS and UM didn't get much focus at all? Though given that we have our own characters, squad, chapter trait etc, if we were included there or anywhere else, we would still need and get a modicum of space alotted to us.

True about successors in released comanions, but other chapters don't have successors with the depth and support of BT and CF. Even core 'dex distinguishes us with seaprate chapter tactic and stuff. And we specifically have more named characters than any other chapter save UM. So it's reasonale to expect more info on these successors in the IF companion book.

 

While I'm hoping we get a separate codex, I don't really see it happening right now. I think GW are preoccupied with Sisters and new stuf so they have little time to spare on updating our mini range that the codex will entail, but we do fall nicely into codex supplement territory of 'one primaris character and a sprue'

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