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Discussion on the new C:SM & Possible BT supplement

The Spanish Inquisitor
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Marshal Vespasian Veteran

Marshal Vespasian

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I mean with 15 guys charging from an lrc that 45 attacks at least, thats 7-8 autowounds with ap - 1. Pair that with a character and its pretty good. Really depends what we are charging.

Charging guard or gsc neophytes? Less valuable. Charging death guard or other High toughness units? Pretty valuable.

I feel like it gives crusaders some more oomph to hurt tougher targets without masking them outright broken.

Competetive in a tournament setting? Dunno, dont care.

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Marshal Reinhard Venerable Brother

Marshal Reinhard

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Intercessors? :tongue.:

Or am I misunderstanding your question?

 

Personally I do quite like it (kinda like the duellist CT trait), and it will surely make Intercessors more interesting to take.

 

No, I meant how strong are the WS or UM equivalents? Since you said it was our assault doctrine. How good is theirs? Auto wounding is always nice, but is it a comparative downgrad/upgrade? Completely different? I have no point of reference not having read any other chapters stuff

Edited by Reinhard
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Jerethdatiger Battle-Brother

Jerethdatiger

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The entire aesthetic of space marines style is shifting from gothic space Knights with tabard and stuff to much simpler and cleanly styled. Power armored guys much more generic scifi. (still with 40k design)

 

So far other then special characters. The most bling a primaris has is a captain in gravis armor. With a cloak and a chair. Arou d his belt. I don't think going forward there will be a lot of tabarded knightly styled models. Other then in very specific places like dark angels

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Smirnov Veteran

Smirnov

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One thing to keep in mind is mixing of chapters. If we are indeed in IF supplement, then we are eligible for their stuff as successors. But while you can't field, say UM and IH and get the special relics, stratagems etc of both chapters (even if they are in separate detachments), it is possible do so with parent chapter and successors I think. Those yellow agresors would be sweet support for boys in black

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Kallas Venerable Brother

Kallas

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I don't mind sharing a supplement with IF, although, that would do IF fans a disservice.

I said it before, I don't think it would do IF fans a disservice. It's plenty likely that the IF book would probably be a bit larger than UM/WS, etc - and with just cause. GW does support CF/BT, and a whole ton more than any other Successor (ie, at all) so it stands to reason that they'd have at least a reasonable amount of space.

 

IF themselves have stuff beyond being a Codex Chapter, but there's still going to be enough room to put them, CF (also not particularly divergent, especially since Guilliman's Primaris reinforcements), and then BT with a significant section to show off their differences.

 

But where I draw the line is model support.

Obviously the range support for OGmarines has stopped. Primaris is the new shebang, and so we too, must move with the times.

Other chapters have a Primaris IC, Sprue Transfers,Datacards,dice.

Well, I want that too. Why should we not have that? Will it sell bad? I'm sure it will not.

Why should you not? I agree with you! I also think it's highly likely, considering each Supplement has been accompanied by the relevant upgrade sprue being released alongside it.

 

A Primaris IC I can absolutely see happening, most likely candidate is the EC, but I wouldn't put it past GW to have Helbrecht or Grimaldus cross the Rubicon (whatever misgivings they might have in the lore, GW have the power to just say, "And Grimaldus suddenly loved Primaris!")

 

I Bringing this back to topic.

Our leaked assault doctrine:

 

Auto wound on a hit of 6 on CC.

Good, bad?

 

It's ok. The problem is if there's no way to skip to the Assault Doctrine - White Scars have that problem, but then I'd say D+1 is probably a more potent effect, in a vacuum, there's room for BT to get other effects that might combo well with it. There's a lot of unknowns, and having only that snippet is too early to call it.

 

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if BT do get Vows in some form, and if they do (I wholeheartedly believe they should get them) then it wouldn't be a reach to suggest that they would interact with the Fight phase and thereby have additional synergy. *Shrug* Too little information to go on, but it's alright. Hardly game breaking - UM Scions of Guilliman is definitely more potent for the gunline, though.

 

Also the dude in the French forums says we in book 2.

Book 2 of the Psychic Awakening campaign? That seems like an odd place, unless they mean on top of the IF Supplement, like how all factions are being included in PA at some point.

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Kallas Venerable Brother

Kallas

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One thing to keep in mind is mixing of chapters. If we are indeed in IF supplement, then we are eligible for their stuff as successors. But while you can't field, say UM and IH and get the special relics, stratagems etc of both chapters (even if they are in separate detachments), it is possible do so with parent chapter and successors I think. Those yellow agresors would be sweet support for boys in black

No. Going by the wording of the other Supplements, one must be an army of the same Chapter (whether First Founding or Successor) to get the benefit of the Super Doctrine. One can always mix Chapter Tactics in separate detachments, but doing so loses Doctrines (which would inherently include the Super Doctrine) for all detachments.

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Ado Veteran

Ado

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Changing topic slightly, apparently a new sub-division within The 40k armies has appeared on the webstore, 'Black Templars' listed alongside All the other first founding CSM armies...

 

I keep telling myself not to get too carried away and then stuff like this happens and I'm like a kid before Christmas!! And I'm nearly 40 :cuss!!

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Brother Talarian Veteran

Brother Talarian

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Seeing these rumours creep is in getting me rather excited...

 

Auto-wounding on a roll of a 6 to hit seems pretty great IMO. Cheaper on special weapons to field more bodies etc.

 

I agree, makes veteran intercessors more appealing as they have a substantial amount of attacks on the charge and can dish out some solid shooting as well.

 

If true, I imagine we’d also have ways to get to our assault doctrine faster. That said, we’d probably spend T1/2 clearing chaff and then charging the tougher units T3+

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Smirnov Veteran

Smirnov

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Seeing these rumours creep is in getting me rather excited...

 

Auto-wounding on a roll of a 6 to hit seems pretty great IMO. Cheaper on special weapons to field more bodies etc.

 

I agree, makes veteran intercessors more appealing as they have a substantial amount of attacks on the charge and can dish out some solid shooting as well.

 

If true, I imagine we’d also have ways to get to our assault doctrine faster. That said, we’d probably spend T1/2 clearing chaff and then charging the tougher units T3+

Not sure about getting Doctrines faste. Scars are an assault army as well, but so far only the big U get doctrine shenanigans. And CP generation. And all the stuff really

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Smirnov Veteran

Smirnov

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Changing topic slightly, apparently a new sub-division within The 40k armies has appeared on the webstore, 'Black Templars' listed alongside All the other first founding CSM armies...

That gives me all the possible feels to feel.

Though they did manage to sneak in a witch as part of Space Marines Primaris Heroes set

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Kallas Venerable Brother

Kallas

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Not sure about getting Doctrines faste. Scars are an assault army as well, but so far only the big U get doctrine shenanigans. And CP generation. And all the stuff really

Scars have some very strong options themselves, to be fair.

 

The Stormspeaking Discipline is potent and most of them are highly useful powers. Their Stratagems are solid and their Relics and WLTs are good too, especially one that can prevent a unit from falling back, which can be a huge benefit for something like a Biker Smash Captain and an entourage of Biker Company Veterans to keep the enemy's guns off them.

 

Ultramarines definitely have a strong book, but I wouldn't say that it's necessarily better. They certainly have more utility in that they have their plethora of characters (who are all useful) as well as a solid, well rounded Super Doctrine and some ubiquitous Stratagems that can be pulled out at the right moment (eg, Fall Back And Reengage, and Defensive Focus).

 

That's what makes me excited to see all of the Supplements: they captures the Ultramarines extremely well; and the Scars are similarly potent while having a distinct feel to them. I can't wait to see the Raven Guard and Iron Hands books - despite my own Griffons being locked into Ultramarines, I want to see what everyone else gets to play with!

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Link2edition Veteran

Link2edition

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Changing topic slightly, apparently a new sub-division within The 40k armies has appeared on the webstore, 'Black Templars' listed alongside All the other first founding CSM armies...

That gives me all the possible feels to feel.

Though they did manage to sneak in a witch as part of Space Marines Primaris Heroes set

 

Did you notice there is no crimson fists?

 

Did you notice Pedro Kantor is listed under imperial fists?

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Closet Skeleton Venerable Brother

Closet Skeleton

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You know what I would like? A box with Primaris sword bros, a booklet with our rules sprues and transfers.

Release the IC whenever.

That would be us sorted for the next decade with BT specific models.

 

So far basically only Ultramarines have a Primaris unique unit. With how much Black Templars would need to make them differentiated no matter what we get its basically going to be wait and hold out for more or make do.

 

The entire aesthetic of space marines style is shifting from gothic space Knights with tabard and stuff to much simpler and cleanly styled. Power armored guys much more generic scifi. (still with 40k design)

 

So far other then special characters. The most bling a primaris has is a captain in gravis armor. With a cloak and a chair. Arou d his belt. I don't think going forward there will be a lot of tabarded knightly styled models. Other then in very specific places like dark angels

 

The Dark Angels lieutenant pretty much proves you wrong. Gothic knights has never been the standard marine aesthetic, its just that there are no large numbers of non-standard Primaris running around yet.

Edited by Closet Skeleton
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