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Discussion on the new C:SM & Possible BT supplement


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Well thats all GW's fault, its been 2 years and while the range has expanded there are still glaring holes in it, few HQ choices with limited options, barely any dedicated close combat units or any unit that represents Veterans. Its getting better for sure but the range is definitely limiting and we are YEARS away from Chapters getting any flavor in terms of miniatures, I doubt we'll even get a Primaris Crusader Squad by the time we get a supplement.

 

For example, it would be strange for us to have a Primaris Crusader squad without the existence of Primaris Sword Brethren, otherwise the option to upgrade your sergeant to a Sword Brother is null and void. A whole unit of Primaris Crusaders led by a normie in Mark 7 Power Armor? How quaint.

 

I'm sorry, but I gotta jump on this. That's a pretty weak argument. A normal crusader squad's sword brother is just a name swap for a veteran sergeant. Go back far enough and Crusader squads couldn't even have a sword brother. You didn't need use a model bought from the black templar sword brother kit to represent him, so you wouldn't need a seperate kit to represent a Primaris squads possible sword brother. Or if you're talking rules, that's literally just them adding a statline for the sword brother while adding rules for the squad to take phobos neophytes or whatever. 

 

Also, we didn't paint ourselves into a corner, GW did.

Wait, do people genuinely think that the Sword Brother in a Crusader Squad can only be modelled by one from the finecast set?

 

Just take a regular marine and paint the shoulders red and black!

My view on this:

 

Primaris sword bro kit, would cover Crusader squads sargent, sword bro unit, castelans, marshals.

upgrade sprue in the style of the old one

reivers with head swap as neos.

BT sorted with 2 kits.

So much effort GW. so much effort...

 

GW did not put themselves into a corner, they just don't want to go the extra mile.

This isn't a problem, and my solution is the lazy one.

I just had a thought:

 

I could see the EC replacing the chapter Champion as an elites choice. They do similar things and there is not really a reason to have both on the board (lore wise). Game wise I was thinking that doubling up on cheap character killing models might be nice.

Ruleswise the Emperor's champion is sitting fine where he is. He's been there, as a special character, since 6th edition. I don't think they'll move him. A primaris upgrade of the model would likely be accompanied by having a stat upgrade, just like every other primarized special character they've done. It doesn't really matter that he's technically not unique.

 

Also, and I admit this might be splitting hairs, but the "Chapter champion" has become ultramarines only (because the only kit selling one, in their minds, is the ultramarine honour guard kit). So you can't really field a chapter champion, unless you use an index. There's still company champions, but thoses aren't really competing with the Emperor's champion for any spot.

He mentioned a sorceror earlier didn't he? I think he was refering to the now quite old rumor engine picture, which was quite easy to work out would be the backpack "dragon decoration" of a chaos sorceror (it looks almost identical to an old one)

 

Is this him again guessing based on that old rumor engine picture? I mean it's not unlikely given that we know a sorceror pretty much is coming, but is there yet more to it I wonder?

 

EDIT: found it, it's from September last year: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/09/25/the-rumour-engine-25th-september-2018/

It's worth noting the general effort from GW to "streamline" the game and make it accessible, quicker etc. Crusader squads have always added layers of complexity in each addition; from mixed armour saves to a wide range of weaponry, they are a little awkward compared to the simplified units of the Primaris range. I suspect this has something to do with the hesitation from GW.

Our most unique and essential aspect is one which goes at odds with their current ethos.

 

Crucially, I'm not saying there is no solution to this, but simply that it requires consideration and no small amount of testing. GW needs a way to make players happy, maintain the faction identity and also get players buying new models, after all. The length of this thread proves that this is no easy task (even most of us here don't agree on exactly how this should be done).

Ironically, mixing phobos neophytes and tacticus initiates, would be infer no complications with saves, and since even scouts are S4 T4 now, no complications there either. A neophyte who's advanced enough that he has the black carapace, would also have the organs and tissue that give Primaris marines W2, so again, no complications. I suppose complications would arrise from how they're armed.

 

Of course, this is assuming that a hypothetical primaris crusader squad even had phobos neophytes and not regular scout ones. My point is rather, the building blocks seems to be there if GW wants to do it.

@Reinhard:

 

Yeah he implied it before, but this time he seems more certain. If anyone can translate it would make my point clear. Im at work currently.

Like I said before, if the eldar release is anything to go by, each faction will have an HQ and a unit.

 

Just my assumptions.

Kikasstou said for sure BT vs CSM in book 2 of Psychic Awakening.

 

Also maybe the release in separate kits of the Masters of possession, obliterators and venomcrawlers from Shadowspear.

Another bit of info, no rules for BL, TS, DG and renegades.

Our opponent's might be Alpha Legion (in our martyred lady book, BT faced Alpha Legion), Word Bearers,(they were attacking shrine worlds, and BT has been facing them post rift), but I somehow doubt we will see World Eaters and Emperor Children. 

Edit: Forgot the Iron Warriors and Night Lords.

Kikasstou said for sure BT vs CSM in book 2 of Psychic Awakening.

 

Also maybe the release in separate kits of the Masters of possession, obliterators and venomcrawlers from Shadowspear.

did he talk about a box or just the lore story "chaos vs us"

 

I am wondering if we will tie in to the sisters release, since their stuff got "angels of death" in today's update.

that would be so awesome BUT in which Errata I can find this changes?

Ah, my bad I read it wrong.

 

They errata'd it to say they DIDN'T get the rule. It is in the "other publications" space marine update pdf. I feel dumb

Some order of the argent shroud, I say. Would choose to die with defending the Emperor's temple. But we're getting side tracked, 

 

I can't actually recall if kikasstou has said that sisters will be involved in book 2? Just been assuming it. There was also something about the sister icon going along with the second map or something when they dug around on the Psychic awakening site

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