Bluflash Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Yeah, it's often a question of pressure. Three invictors deployed aggressively have been a great first turn threat to pull pressure from the Eliminators, and the rest of my army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 A squad of Eliminators can threaten nearly the entire table if they are deployed close to the center. A squad of board-covering snipers deployed close to the center...let's just say that's not what I'd do with snipers.I get that they can shoot at everything, but they can also be shot at from everything. And charged by anything intended for the midfield. That's too much attention for my taste, my midfield stuff usually gets worn down constantly. -1 to hit and a 2+ save has made them fairly durable if I stick them in cover. And every shot that goes into them is something that doesn't go somewhere else. When I have 3 squads I will probably always deploy one in the center. Once people start realizing what Raven Guard Eliminators can do on turn 2 a lot of them will dedicate way more shooting to them than is really reasonable. More and more we are becoming a Chapter that benefits from playing mind games. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon_77 Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 (snip) More and more we are becoming a Chapter that benefits from playing mind games. I REALLY like this. I hope the rest of our Codex bears this out, as though we on paper seem a little weaker than say Ultras or IH the ability to put your opponent in terrible deployment and movement places due to a perceived threat is strong in of itself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Iron Father Feirros got his rules today, located here If we are to take his rules as any indication to what to expect from Shrike, I think its safe to say Shrike will be getting quite an upgrade. Feirros has 7 Wounds, I think its safe to say Shrike will have 6 (Not Gravis) Feirros has 5 Attacks, I expect Shrike would have 6 (Paired LC) His ranged attacks and melee attacks are both strong, I would expect Shrike to be stronger in melee and less so with the new pistol. Feirros also has 3 special rules - besides presumably his Captain re-rolls Old-Shrike has 1 ability (Re-roll JP Charges) Im pretty excited for his potential! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Im pretty excited for [shirke's] potential! I am too but I'm trying not to get my hopes up. Iron Father is crazy strong so I will allow my hopes to be raised... slightly... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Considering how insane iron hands characters are at buffing I think that your rules will help to teach them some humility. I’m curious if anyone can do the math on the new master of forge character and how well eliminators would do against him. I also want to remind everyone that we haven’t seen the special issue warhead, full psychic powers and actual new warlord traits yet. Who knows maybe there will be something broken in there ;)! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Yeah, we'll see. I somehow doubt the current incarnation of SftS will remain at its current level, and remain the only deployment trick in our arsenal. As for the math - 3 eliminators inflict 1,67W per round, without any further buffs or rerolls, but with RG doctrine. So 4,2 eliminator squad shooting phases would be necessary to kill that guy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Silly tactic idea that came to me on my morning walk with my doggo: I haven't fully read the new codex and think I'm confusing a warlord trait and relic but... Could you give the Phobos Captain the trait to move after shooting and whatever was needed to get him to D5, then roll up in a transport, pop out, assassinate a character, and then use the movement to embark and be protected? I get it's situational and you probably shouldn't plan on that but... it would be hilarious to have a repulsor just scooting around the field with the captain jumping shoot jumping and dropping bodies left and right. EDIT: Ignore me. I got my warlord traits costs... it was a cool idea though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 ...that guy can just shoot characters from 30" away, with an assault weapon nonetheless. Same effect, no need to walk over there and do complicated stuff. And it's just 4D. And remember - it's not called "being lazy", it's called "optimizing effort". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Wait I got a quick question, so for eliminators it’s a +1 to hit with guided aim from the sergeants gun. And then it’s +1 to hit with the raven guard doctrine. So since the eliminator sniper rifle says 6+ for a mortal wound then are you getting mortal wounds on a +4? And then you could get a Phobos warlord with aimed precision for a further +1 for a +3 Mortal wounds? Is that how modifiers work? If so that’s pretty amazing right there, bye bye characters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Wait I got a quick question, so for eliminators it’s a +1 to hit with guided aim from the sergeants gun. And then it’s +1 to hit with the raven guard doctrine. So since the eliminator sniper rifle says 6+ for a mortal wound then are you getting mortal wounds on a +4? And then you could get a Phobos warlord with aimed precision for a further +1 for a +3 Mortal wounds? Is that how modifiers work? If so that’s pretty amazing right there, bye bye characters. Looked that up and it seems to check out, although the warlord trait is Target Priority for Phobos Warlords. If it's a phobos captain as well then you get the deep strike denial bubble around your sniper blob as well. EDIT: Downside of that is any roll would hit, but have to be rerolled first, so if you roll two ones in a row it's a miss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 So since the eliminator sniper rifle says 6+ for a mortal wound then are you getting mortal wounds on a +4? [...] Is that how modifiers work? Yes. Though trading a 5+ MW on 3 shots for 4+ MW on 2 shots has the exact same result, so I wouldn't waste the sergeant's shot for that. And then you could get a Phobos warlord with aimed precision for a further +1 for a +3 Mortal wounds? As the WL trait buffs the to-hit roll, not the to-wound roll - no. Sniper rifles require a to-wound roll of 6+, the to-hit roll has nothing to do with that. The other buffs increase both rolls, so up to this point it does work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Oops, yeah, I got mixed up with to hit/to wound. I need to play more... I'm impatiently waiting for Shrike's preview today. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5387961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/13/preview-chapter-master-kayvaan-shrikegw-homepage-post-4/ Preview is in... Seems like he's essentially the same he was before now with the additional wound and attack for being Primaris Still sv3+ (so was Khan FYI) His pistol looks neat Disappointed claws weren't at least +1S Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 whelp, my feelings of 'meh' continue to be realized. It seems GW is making up for years of neglecting the IH while we get mostly the same. It seems the theme of the RG has been 'you get a little extra'. We'll make it work but... hrm... Have to wait until we see everything in the supplement to know where we sit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Im still hoping there's another part to his rules they're not showing. Either that or their stratagems are going to be extremely powerful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Claws did the math and Shrike puts out a lot of hurt, my complaint is the charge reroll. You want him to go first to negate overwatch, but if he charges too far then other units lose out on the reroll bonus because they're outside of 6". So the situations where you want the reroll are less likely to happen. Whereas when you need to make that 5 inch charge you can reroll because you'll be close enough. Even if it was a 9" bubble that would be great because it would help DS charges go off more reliably. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuittzz Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Overall he seems quite average so I'm hoping this is being done purposefully as the strategems may interact with him in good ways. Problem I have is in the design philosophy - Ferrios has 3 special rules that all impart bonuses without doing anything. Straight Invul save, straight BS modifier and straight up repair of 3 vehicle wounds. Shrike's abilities all hinge on fickle dice rolls. (Badly worded I hope) Re-roll of charges, 9" charge with rerolls is around 50% i think. And then when he makes the charge he gets another 50% chance of doing a single MW? Great. Lacklustre and seems like they just phoned him in with the primaris upgrade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 Would have been nice if his re roll range was 8 or 9" then he could go first and let others charge Or word it like the GK one where its based on his location at the beginning of the phase... Ohwell Looks like he's still a GEQ bully Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 I agree, a 9" reroll gives a little more range and helps with DS... maybe they'll FAQ it... oh well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 He's awesome lol. 28" movement followed by a charge with re rolls? Easy Why would you teleport him in when he cover the board with ease. Just bring a Phobos Libby - a near mandatory HQ anyways. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 28" movement is not reliable though, he's probably reliably moving 18/20 on average, and if he's advancing he's not shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 28" movement is not reliable though, he's probably reliably moving 18/20 on average, and if he's advancing he's not shooting. Why? There's the Phobos power to move twice - Temporal Corridor. He'll actually move 28+D6" and can shoot AND charge after. He's absolutely brilliant as he can catch up to squads arriving from reserves to grant auras. Raven Guard are about the unit combos to get the abilities coalescing into something powerful. As soon as I saw Shrike I thought he's one of the best characters - certainly more useful than Calgar! Combine Shrike flying across the board with a teleporting Chaplain Dread that stops overwatch and has a +2 to charge? Now the opponent can lose multiple key units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon_77 Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 28" movement is not reliable though, he's probably reliably moving 18/20 on average, and if he's advancing he's not shooting. Why? There's the Phobos power to move twice - Temporal Corridor. He'll actually move 28+D6" and can shoot AND charge after. He's absolutely brilliant as he can catch up to squads arriving from reserves to grant auras. Raven Guard are about the unit combos to get the abilities coalescing into something powerful. As soon as I saw Shrike I thought he's one of the best characters - certainly more useful than Calgar! Combine Shrike flying across the board with a teleporting Chaplain Dread that stops overwatch and has a +2 to charge? Now the opponent can lose multiple key units. This. We HAVE to get out of the mentality that single pieces of what we have are bad because of what the other kids get. We are now all about synergy between units. Its obvious with our CT's and now our Character. We will see more of the same when we get the full list of Umbra powers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted September 13, 2019 Author Share Posted September 13, 2019 28" movement is not reliable though, he's probably reliably moving 18/20 on average, and if he's advancing he's not shooting.Why? There's the Phobos power to move twice - Temporal Corridor. He'll actually move 28+D6" and can shoot AND charge after. Negative. Temporal Corridor specifically states the unit must Advance, and there's nothing in Shrike's rules that says he can advance, shoot, and charge. His gun is Pistol 2, not Assault. If we end up with a Strategem that lets us advance, shoot, and charge, cool. But as it stands Temporal Corridor will do nothing but shoot him way out front where he can do nothing but get shot to death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/357539-what-are-you-looking-forward-to-most-in-the-rg-supplement/page/15/#findComment-5388109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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