What are you looking forward to most in the RG supplement?

[duz_]

Id love a mid game redeploy strat like the assault squad formation buff

Feel like this edition it would be more useful

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I really don't want to be pigeonholed into phobos personally. I have a lot of tacticals, assault marines, scouts, drop pods, and sternguard.

 

I also am worried our doctrine will be in the assault phase. The IH super doctrine is very good. The WS one is ok. My biggest fear is that it's in the assault phase and where out CT doesn't do anything so it forces us to forgo it.

 

Personally I would like buffs for things arriving from deepstrike, a cover save/minus to hit or bonus to damage. If only deathstorm drop pods were good.

I think the WS trait is the most powerful in a vacuum.  It adds the most raw power but comes late in the game.  If I were to guess i'd say that the doctrine benefits that appear later in the game will generally be stronger than the benefits that appear earlier.  

 

How would you feel about phobos marines if they all got +1 dmg in tactical doctrine?  Eliminators would be flat 4 dmg and suppressors would be flat 3.  Ouch!  

[Nusquam]

I still wouldn't want that. NuShrike would be my one and only Phobos Model in my RG army simply from a collection standpoint. I'm putting primaris towards other armies, RG successors but not their direct rules. I'd be pretty sad if my 5e RG army was soft-squatted.

 

Plus Vanguard Vets, if they don't get a bonus then I don't know how I would feel.

[thewarriorhunter]

We're up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/10/preview-sons-of-coraxgw-homepage-post-4/

 

initial reaction is underwhelming. I like what we got, but it seems like the IH made out much better.

[Saadjor]

Article is up guys:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/09/10/preview-sons-of-coraxgw-homepage-post-4/

 

Not sure what to think of our doctrine to be honest. Feels fluffy, but not what I expected.

 

Edit: Ninja'ed by seconds

Edited September 10, 2019 by Saadjor

[Nusquam]

Article is up:

 

 

I was expecting it to be bad, but this is a ringer in its own right; fluffy but mechanically skewed. Its great against knight characters and awful otherwise unless you take sniper rifles. And clearly is far an beyond no where as good as IH Calculated Fury.

 

The WLT and relic aren't anything new.

 

The psychic power is an emergency escape for your character. I can't see it ever being better than a straight deepstrike with a bodyguard unit. You can use it turn one like Da Jump, but it's just a character and your opponent won't leave a gap for them knowing you have this power. Unless shrike has a special ability that would make him survivable. Or perhaps one could use it to fling a captain back to your homefield objective to secure it?

 

False Flight is great however. Being able to shoot and charge can be a big deal. Especially now that it's clear we're a gunline army to GW now...

 

Edit: Someone also brought up a good point, sniper rifles benefit more from the Dev doctrine thant the tactical, and melee obviously the assault. There's no rapid fire or assault weapons that would really benefit from the doctrine when normal infantry characters are the target. Then you can't even shoot them unless they're the closest...

[MajorNese]

Yeah...let's say Eliminators will love that, and it's super awesome against knight chars, tank commanders or demon primarchs, but beyond that? Nah, not really...nowhere near the army wide buffs (with 2 components instead of 1) that IH and UM get.

 

The rest feels fluffy for Raptors rather than Raven Guard, but it remains to be seen how effective it is compared to the straight-forward buffs.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Definitely not what I expected

[Nusquam]

My Raptors have 10 sniper scouts and 6 eliminators, so they're already geared to make full use of it. My RG-proper can steal the scouts(they are in full camo) but otherwise I can't think of a scenario where it would come into play with infantry characters. My Charnel Consuls have 15 hellblaster in impulsors(whenever they come out) and a nullzone libby, which will love to go knight hunting.

 

Imagine if the doctrine worked against units that are under aura effects as well? Or +1 to wound them as well as the current effet against characters directly?

[ShinyRhino]

Snipers are obvious choice for the Doctrine, but there's also deep striking units. Plasma Inceptors dropped in near a buffing character? A jump Captain dropping in with Ravens Fury and charging a character?

 

Or even any unit shooting at those annoying Chsos HQs who fly across the board and roll your lines. Daemon Prince who?

 

It feels flexible to me, and I like it. Eliminators and Phobos Librarian just jumped to the front of my paint queue.

Edited September 10, 2019 by ShinyRhino

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I was right about sniping!  I was also right about our doctrine buff being in tactical.  That aside... it seems really bad.  Only works against characters, only works on turn 2 and beyond.  

 

Although it does apply in close combat so RG is going to be good at murdering characters.  

 

Overall this seems like a doctrine buff we will have to build around rather than something that is self evidently powerful.  This doctrine could become very powerful if we were provided with more statragems that allow for character targetting, pile in shennanigans, and reliable charges.

 

We could have a phobos captain, give him a master crafted weapon special issue wargear (assuming we get it), the marksman's honours warlord trait allowing him to do 5 dmg a shot with his rifle.  That might pair well with the doctrine and a chaplain for +1 to hit and +2 to wound. (lol whatever.... too many moving parts and most characters worth sniping have an invuln save)

 

False Flight is terrific.  I can hardly wait to use it.

 

Shadowstep is hot garbage.  Warp Charge 7 makes it unreliable but the ability itself seems like something that needs to be reliable for anyone to ever plan on making use of it.  Since it is only usable on characters, golly gee is this power even going to accomplish?  It will fail to cast nearly half the time and any character we use it on is going to fail their charge 50% of the time or more.  1/10 imo.  I would rather be given a random psychic power from any other army than this ability.  

[Kallas]

Idea for Shadowstep:

1. Start of battle round, Chaplain uses Canticle of Hate (+2" to charges for units within 6")
2. Deep strike melee stuff
3. Shadowstep Chaplain over to buff them
4. ???
5. Profit

Cheeky bonus: if the Litany fails, hold off the deep strikers for a turn and try again.

[Kallas]

We could have a phobos captain, give him a master crafted weapon special issue wargear (assuming we get it), the marksman's honours warlord trait allowing him to do 5 dmg a shot with his rifle.  That might pair well with the doctrine and a chaplain for +1 to hit and +2 to wound. (lol whatever.... too many moving parts and most characters worth sniping have an invuln save)

 

Assuming that the SIW is the same for RG (very likely) they've already plugged that gap with UM/WS: a Master-crafted weapon becomes a Relic, so it can't benefit from Marksman's Honours Warlord Trait. Unfortunately 

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Snipers are obvious choice for the Doctrine, but there's also deep striking units. Plasma Inceptors dropped in near a buffing character? A jump Captain dropping in with Ravens Fury and charging a character?

 

Or even any unit shooting at those annoying Chsos HQs who fly across the board and roll your lines. Daemon Prince who?

 

It feels flexible to me, and I like it. Eliminators and Phobos Librarian just jumped to the front of my paint queue.

The jump captain is only making that charge about half the time... the other half he is getting shot dead.  

Plasma inceptors didnt need +1 to hit/wound to rinse a vulnerable character.  What are you going to shoot with them that str 8 ap -3 2 dmg cant already handle?  Also, that only works when the enemy makes a mistake.  

 

There is a case for eliminators being the big winner here since there are a lot of knight characters to shoot at.  Getting +2 to hit and wound aint bad.  Unfortunately it seems that this doctrine bonus is orders of magnitude worse than all the others we have seen so far.  

[Bluflash]

Consider the math on Eliminators using Guided Aim now. That makes either 3 shots hitting on 2+ wounding on 2+ and a mortal on 5+ or 2 shots hitting on (1) 2+ wounding on (1) 2+ and doing mortals on 4+.

My bolt rifle eliminators have been a stand out in my list, regularly putting down things way bigger then their S5 rifles should on paper, and I'm about to get a 33% fire increase against characters. Glad I didn't try and convert the sarges to carbines.

 

Our Anti-knight power went up quite a bit as well. And I'll be expecting a strat that allows non-sniper units to target characters.

 

Murderwings should be making a solid return as well, especially since the relic restrictions are gone.

 

Is it IH levels of strong? Nah, but its been clear for a while that IH/UM are top of the codex splat pile.

[thewarriorhunter]

So... wording question: If we're battle forged all models will have the tactical doctrine ability. The weapons won't... but the 'super' tactic doesn't specify weapon so does that mean that when the tactical doctrine is up all models will get -1 against characters?

 

If I'm wrong in my twisting of words back to my original thought:

 

I find it frustrating that our super tactic is so limited... I can't see how it pairs well with any of the character killing tools we have. Snipers and Eliminators are heavy so they don't benefit (if my above thought is wrong). If we're really left to bolters and assault profiles to get the -1 then we have to first get through chaff and screens or hope our opponent makes a mistake for us to take advantage of it.

 

It seems like other armies are getting buffs that just happen whereas our army is now forced to make certain scenarios happen in order to benefit from our buffs.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Idea for Shadowstep:

• Start of battle round, Chaplain uses Canticle of Hate (+2" to charges for units within 6")
• Deep strike melee stuff
• Shadowstep Chaplain over to buff them
• ???
• Profit

Cheeky bonus: if the Litany fails, hold off the deep strikers for a turn and try again.

Ok dude.. that is :cuss clever. If we get a relic that gives +1 to cast Umbramancy it could work really nicely. Edited September 11, 2019 by Claws and Effect

[Bluflash]

So... wording question: If we're battle forged all models will have the tactical doctrine ability. The weapons won't... but the 'super' tactic doesn't specify weapon so does that mean that when the tactical doctrine is up all models will get -1 against characters?

 

 

 From Turn 2 on, all of our models will get +1 to hit and wound characters. Shooting phase or fight phase, any type of weapon. Rapid fire and Assault will also get -1 AP. 

[thewarriorhunter]

Glad I read that right. It's better than what I initially thought but I still think it pales in comparison to what we've seen in the other supplements so far. Here's hoping we've got more goodies in the book that they aren't showing.

 

Edit: I guess the plan is now kill characters that need killing before switching to Assault Doctrine if you plan on getting into CC.

Edited September 10, 2019 by thewarriorhunter

[Claws and Effect]

Idea for Shadowstep:

• Start of battle round, Chaplain uses Canticle of Hate (+2" to charges for units within 6")
• Deep strike melee stuff
• Shadowstep Chaplain over to buff them
• ???
• Profit

Cheeky bonus: if the Litany fails, hold off the deep strikers for a turn and try again.

Take out the middleman and Shadowstep a Chaplain Dread with the Imperium's Sword Warlord trait.

 

The power does not specify that it has to be an infantry character.

[Kallas]

 

Idea for Shadowstep:

• Start of battle round, Chaplain uses Canticle of Hate (+2" to charges for units within 6")
• Deep strike melee stuff
• Shadowstep Chaplain over to buff them
• ???
• Profit

Cheeky bonus: if the Litany fails, hold off the deep strikers for a turn and try again.

Take out the middleman and Shadowstep a Chaplain Dread with the Imperium's Sword Warlord trait.

 

The power does not specify that it has to be an infantry character.

 

Oh, that's a beautiful idea! Love it!

[thewarriorhunter]

The Land Raider Excelsior is also a Character... load that up with some terminators and send it down range?

[SyNidus]

Killing infantry characters? That's a given.

We've just gotten much more deadly against tournament regulars like - Morty, Magnus, Knight-Castellans

And yeah, Shadowstep is actually pretty damned awesome.

[Claws and Effect]

And yeah, Shadowstep is actually pretty damned awesome.

The RG Facebook group I'm in is calling it hot garbage.

 

I have realized they are idiots.

 

They don't want to think strategically. They just want to be handed an I Win button.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Claws and Effect

[duz_]

At first I was a bit :huh: about our doctrine

 

But as it set in Im pretty stoked with the combos that we can pull together. Not as outright brutal as some of the other chapters but definitely Tactical and will keep your opponents on their toes. Characters are some of the most points intensive and powerful units in the game so nothing to scoff at.

 

The list I built recently plays really well to this. Although may have to consider Including a psyker...

 

Can't wait to see Shrikes article :D

 

 

 

And yeah, Shadowstep is actually pretty damned awesome.

The RG Facebook group I'm in is calling it hot garbage.

 

I have realized they are idiots.

 

They don't want to think strategically. They just want to be handed an I Win button.

Indeed C&E RG require some thought to play that's why I chose them as my chapter :D