What are you looking forward to most in the RG supplement?

[thewarriorhunter]

I'm going to have to buy a box of Inceptors to paint them up as my SS. Dropping turn two with a switch to Tactical Doctrine means 18 STR 5 AP-2 shots clearing out something...

 

I'm actually debating if I should try and strip my RG models but I'm worried they'll just be utterly ruined in the process, and I hate painting when it's not in sub assemblies.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Obviously everyone's budget is similar, but with regards to stripping and repainting - I practically never do it anymore.

 

I'm at the point in my life where I have limited hobby time, and its very valuable to me, the last thing I want to do with it is strip old models. It's more enjoyable to just buy new kits (with a few exceptions, like stripping an old OOP model that I want to re-use)

 

More OT: Agree on the Inceptors, they are quite solid.

 

Heck, even the lowly Dev squad with 4x HB is quite strong with Dev Doctrine for a measly 100 (or 105) points!

[thewarriorhunter]

Yeah... I think I'll just buy new.

 

I'm very excited about the doctrines and what they'll do. I play mono-faction so this is a really nice rule/boost for the way I play. I'm also excited that my Drop Pod is useful again! I don't think I'll paint up another one but I may consider building a devastator squad to load up inside of it and get in my opponent's face.

[Aothaine]

I think Raven Guard should have something related to forward positions. Something similar to what the GSC have. Allowing them to pop up right in the enemy lines.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I think Raven Guard should have something related to forward positions. Something similar to what the GSC have. Allowing them to pop up right in the enemy lines.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

If we could get back Strike From The Shadows, restricted to <Raven Guard> <Infantry>, maybe restricting to no-charging on T1, or maybe 12" away.

 

I really appreciated the cat/mouse of the deployment phase with SFTS having a "delayed" deployment for us, and the strategy involved in that. I stand by what I have said in the past: It wasn't an issue due to RG players, it was an issue due to Alpha Legion Cultist blobs with Forward Operatives/Tide of Traitors/VOTLW/other buffs.

 

I hope the new Marine codices bring about an era of rules where armies are similar but not straight copy paste jobs of each other. Give us SFTS back, and give Alpha Legion/Stygies VII something similar yet different.

[Bluflash]

I've been waiting a long time to put together a Raptors list that actually "feels" right, and now we have the tools to do it. Sneaky infiltrators and actually threatening sniper rifles.
At least until the RG splat comes out, consider running your Raptors as UM Successors with Stealthy and Master Artisans.

Bring lots of infiltrators (with comms), intercessors, and eliminators (either flavor). Bring a phobos Capt and Lt. and at least 2 warsuits. 

Deploy the suits and infiltrators defensively, screen out their scout deployments and deep strikers, and roll to see who goes first.

Activate the Phobos WL Trait to redeploy your infiltrators and spend 2 CP for Rapid Redeployment UM Strat to redeploy your "ultramarine" warsuits to the front as well. That gives you 6 units to redeploy after you see how the enemy deploys and who's going first.

Keep the CPT and LT in the back with the eliminators to give rerolls or support your AT. I'm running 2 relic contemptor, and one contemptor mortis for 12 2+ Lascannons.
Anything more than 12" gives you cover, so you can focus less on terrain pieces and more on distance and firing angles. Master artisans makes all of your units more consistent and reliable, and really helps eliminators and las cannons not botch.

From turn two on, all of your units can move and fire at full effectiveness (UM Doctrine Trait), so move snipers, bolt rifles, and dreads around as necessary, and the UM strats actually support a tactically flexible army. Squishy guys? Push up, shock assault. Heavy rush enemy, fall back in stages while still landing maximum shots.

I never thought I'd run Raptors as a UM successor, and hopefully the RG splat will give us more to support these guys, but until then this list feels very fluffy and crunchy.

[mertbl]

I keep seeing this a lot. Is it really possible to be "ultramarines" and gain everything from their supplement and still pick 2 chapter traits?

[thewarriorhunter]

I keep seeing this a lot. Is it really possible to be "ultramarines" and gain everything from their supplement and still pick 2 chapter traits?

 

If I understand you correctly, no. You're either UM or you're not. If you're picking 2 traits for DIY then you're not.

[Dracos]

I'm going to have to buy a box of Inceptors to paint them up as my SS. Dropping turn two with a switch to Tactical Doctrine means 18 STR 5 AP-2 shots clearing out something...

 

I'm actually debating if I should try and strip my RG models but I'm worried they'll just be utterly ruined in the process, and I hate painting when it's not in sub assemblies.

 

Sadly I've used the Inceptor Bolters on my Aggressor  conversions, so, yeah Plasma-Inceptors as T2 burning down Knights? 

 

I tried stripping a unit of Hellblasters before I settled on my paint scheme for Tacticus armor, ugh.

[mertbl]

Unless I'm misunderstanding bluflash, that's what he is trying to do.

 

 

 

I keep seeing this a lot. Is it really possible to be "ultramarines" and gain everything from their supplement and still pick 2 chapter traits?

If I understand you correctly, no. You're either UM or you're not. If you're picking 2 traits for DIY then you're not.

[Bluflash]

My understanding is yes. If you are playing a successor chapter you still pick your progenitor chapter as well. If you look at the UM book, you still get access to the strats, doctrine trait, and the special issue wargear. If you want a specific chapter relic you have to pay an extra CP (Gifts of Ultramar).

 

Look at the UM strat fall back and reengage. It's costs 1cp if you are UM, but 2cp if you are a successor not using the normal UM trait.

 

We will know for sure on Sat, but from all the vids and scans I've seen, that's how it works. Which is a nice move, it means you still get that first founding flavor even if you go successor, rather than losing out on a lot of options and flex.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Bluflash

[thewarriorhunter]

I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to taking the UM CT and picking 2 from the DIY.

[mertbl]

Good lord. There is no way they worked through all the possible abuses of that.

 

My understanding is yes. If you are playing a successor chapter you still pick your progenitor chapter as well. If you look at the UM book, you still get access to the strats, doctrine trait, and the special issue wargear. If you want a specific chapter relic you have to pay an extra CP (Gifts of Ultramar).

 

Look at the UM strat fall back and reengage. It's costs 1cp if you are UM, but 2cp if you are a successor not using the normal UM trait.

 

We will know for sure on Sat, but from all the vids and scans I've seen, that's how it works. Which is a nice move, it means you still get that first founding flavor even if you go successor, rather than losing out on a lot of options and flex.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to taking the UM CT and picking 2 from the DIY.

 

There is some debate on the exact wording (I believe). One camp does believe you will be able to pick two traits from the DIY list (Say, Stealthy and Bolter Fusillade), declare yourself an UM Successor. Being a UM Successor then gives you access to their Trait (Scions of Guilliman), along with their strats, "Special Issue Wargear" (Which is like a subset of Relics), and maybe their Psychic Discipline and Tactical Cards? But not their Special Characters, and getting access to their actual Relics costs CP.

 

Its very weird, but also pretty cool. However, the amount of debating over screencaps pulled from 480p video at this point is kinda silly, so I am waiting to have the physical book in hand this weekend (hopefully).

[thewarriorhunter]

I cannot possibly imagine that GW would let you take a FF CT and then stack the DIY's on that. If it does get interpreted like that I guarantee you it gets FAQ'd immediately.

[thewarriorhunter]

Data sheets are up with Shrike. No change (not surprised), so we'll have to wait for the supplement to see if he crosses the Rubicon.

[Nusquam]

Terror Troops stacking up to -3 is a nice surprise. All my Reivers are part of my DIY chapter but if the RG supplement has additional spiciness for Reivers I may have to re-add them to my Raptors.

 

As for DIY Traits and FF stratagems I can see it going either way. Some are divergent like Carcharodons, some are close to the original like Raptors. Though I would prefer to make my Raptors Marksmen and use Bolter Fusillade to closer match their 5e rules because I gave all my first born a lot of bolters when I started them.

[Dracos]

Data sheets are up with Shrike. No change (not surprised), so we'll have to wait for the supplement to see if he crosses the Rubicon.

 

I think this just delays us officially NOT seeing Shrike cross the Rubicon :(

[thewarriorhunter]

While I agree with you, I'll be happily surprised if we do see a RG primaris character. Perhaps a new Primaris leader will rise through our ranks but Shrike decides that he doesn't want to cross? There's a number of narrative takes that could be done...

 

or....

 

We get Corax :D

[Nusquam]

Reading through the dex now. Successor tactics can be anything you want unless, according to the designers note, you purposefully choose Inheritors and are painted as a recognized successor. Then you have to choose the FF tactics for Inheritors. Unsure on how this affects the supplements because I don't play UM or WS so I didn't buy the book.

[thewarriorhunter]

Reading through the dex now. Successor tactics can be anything you want unless, according to the designers note, you purposefully choose Inheritors and are painted as a recognized successor. Then you have to choose the FF tactics for Inheritors. Unsure on how this affects the supplements because I don't play UM or WS so I didn't buy the book.

 

I call shenanigans. My scheme is very close to World Eaters and I had no idea until someone pointed it out. There are so many schemes out there and to punish the player for now knowing something doesn't seem right to me.

[Nusquam]

If you use a different symbol I'm sure you can get away with selecting any FF and the Inheritors trait. Just painting them similar doesn't equate to a pre existing scheme.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

 

Reading through the dex now. Successor tactics can be anything you want unless, according to the designers note, you purposefully choose Inheritors and are painted as a recognized successor. Then you have to choose the FF tactics for Inheritors. Unsure on how this affects the supplements because I don't play UM or WS so I didn't buy the book.

 

I call shenanigans. My scheme is very close to World Eaters and I had no idea until someone pointed it out. There are so many schemes out there and to punish the player for now knowing something doesn't seem right to me.

 

 

There is an extensive thread up right now on r/warhammercompetitive discussing Successors here: https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/crk6ex/space_marines_successor_chapters_are_messed_up/

 

If you read through the comments, here is a quoted bit from the UM Supp (From OverlordMark):

 

 

"If the successor Chapter you have chosen is one established in the background of our publications, its founding Chapter will often be known (for example, the Mortificators Chapter is a known successor of the Ultramarines)."

 

If a Chapter is an Ultramarines successor in the fluff then it can only use the Ultramarine successor rules, not the White Scars/Iron Hands etc. Makes sense to me.

 

"If the successor Chapter you have chosen does not have a known founding Chapter but has the Inheritors of the Primarch Successor Tactic, and you select the Chapter Tactic of a First Founding Chapter, your chosen Chapter is a successor of that First Founding Chapter."

 

If you choose Inheritors of the Primarch to get the main Chapter Tactic then you are a successor of the Chapter. If my custom Chapter takes Inheritors of the Primarch (Iron Hands) then they are an Iron Hands successor and may only take the options from the Iron Hands supplement, not the Ultramarines/White Scars/etc.

This also makes sense to me.

 

"Otherwise choose a founding Chapter that fits your successor Chapter's character."

 

If the two previous conditions are not met (i.e the founding chapter is not known, and you have not taken the Inheritors of the Primarch Tactic) then choose whichever Chapter you want to be a successor of.

Note that nothing *forces* you to take Inheritors of the Primarch. Also, nothing in these rules overwrites the rules from Codex: Space Marines regarding Chapter Tactics.

If you are from a Chapter that has a listed Chapter Tactic then you take that Chapter Tactic. If you are from a Chapter that does not have a listed Chapter Tactic then you take two Successor Tactics.

The Mortifactors do not have a listed Chapter Tactic and so they take two Successor Tactics. As they are a known successor to the Ultramarines they may also make use of the rules in the Ultramarines supplement.

 

 

This to me makes it pretty cut and dry, so for example, if you play say Necropolis Hawks (Which are a known Raven Guard successor), you can/must:

 

1) Declare yourself a Raven Guard Successor. This means you will get the Raven Guard Trait (which we do not know yet, but every chapter will have one - much like Scions of Guilliman - It's effectively a "third" chapter tactic). 

 

2) You can then choose to either select the RG Chapter Tactics or use the Successor DIY traits and pick two. Regardless of either option, since you are declaring yourself a Raven Guard Successor, you get to keep the RG Chapter Trait.

 

3) As a successor, it appears you get to use Parent Chapter Psychic Disciplines (not 100% about this), Warlord Traits (from either the "Vanilla" ones in the Codex SM v2.0 or the Raven Guard ones in the supplement), access to "Raven Guard Special Issue Wargear" (This is like a more generic tier of relic), and "Vanilla" relics. And maybe RG Tactical Obj cards?

 

4) You do NOT get access to Raven Guard Relics of the Armory (or whatever they will be called) without paying a CP tax (1 for 1, 2 for 2 I believe).

 

5) You do NOT get access to RG Special Units (Shrike, etc)

 

Lastly, one thing that I think is really neat/thematic is this: the legion traits require that your whole army be of that faction - so for example for "Scions of Guilliman" to be active you have to play a full Ultramarine army - This is similar to how in order to get combat doctrines you need to be a full Adeptus Astartes force (with the Angels of Death keyword). However, it appears from the supplement wording that if you have a combined force of say Raven Guard, Necropolis Hawks, and Raptors (All known RG Successors), you will get to keep your RG special trait. Its pretty neat that there is a way to represent this in the fluff.

 

So in short TWH could play his RG with his Spectral Sicarii and get to keep his RG Chapter Trait - pretty fkn cool, imo!

Edited August 17, 2019 by Shadow Captain Vyper

[seriade]

Not sure where to put this but it seems at least from the marine book the raven guard coloring has changed slightly again.... I think white arms were way to hard for them as well as how the helmets were colored traditionally.

[mertbl]

One of the photo spreads still has white armed vanguard veterans.

 

 

Not sure where to put this but it seems at least from the marine book the raven guard coloring has changed slightly again.... I think white arms were way to hard for them as well as how the helmets were colored traditionally.