On Primaris and the future of 40k

[Huggtand]

I'm 50/50 on whether Space Wolves fans would be happier if they got rid of every single fang and claw in the range, or if they just dropped all pretence of restraint and made them straight up furries in power armour.

It would be worth it just to watch half the community erupt in rabid, frothing nerd rage when it turns out furries have been infiltrating 40k this entire time like a genestealer cult.

 

Please, don´t give them any more ideas, its hard enough already to know whats what when everything is wolf-something   

Edited September 3, 2019 by Huggtand

[Robbienw]

From the WD leaks on https://www.miniwars.eu/2019/09/white-dwarf-angeles-oscuros-primaris.html?m=1 we now have Deathwatch and Ravenguard Primaris.

 

Looks like the studio is breaking down that wall already.

Deathwatch and Ravenguard, quality typo :lol:

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

 

Supposing they do eventually replace old marines entirely, there will have to be some kind of assault marine equivalent. Otherwise what becomes of units like Death Company? Sanguinary Guard?

 

Who knows. Maybe they will drastically re-write Blood Angels into something different. But I think it's far more likely we'll just see a jump pack Primaris at some stage.

 

I don't think they intend to just squat half the range of BA, DA, GK etc in the transition, they're going to make equivalents eventually.

Sanguine gaurd could be it's own primaris kit, same as death company.

 

I assume, eventually in wave 3 or 4 ( 2-3 years) there will be atleast 1 chapter specific primaris unit.

 

 

I'm not sure we will see 1:1 Primaris equivalents of DC/SG. And I hardly see a point in Primaris SG, considering the unit is all about fighting in armour dating back to HH and times of Sanguinius, which Guillmarines can't use. That's a problem with Primaris - they are cut off from many relics, what is quite a big deal in a pseudo religious organization.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla

[ERJAK]

A lot of this lore discussion kind of ignores the whole underlying 'the emperor was actually kind of a dumbass, like yeah he was a super genius but he was also a bit of a mouthbreather' thread that runs throughout the entirety of 40k.

 

A lot of the Emperor's decisions were shortsighted and self-indulgent. He doomed the galaxy to millenia of hellish warfare because he couldn't comprehend that the primarchs were people. It's not hard to imagine him missing stuff in his science work because he got distracted fellating himself over how great he was.

[BitsHammer]

A lot of this lore discussion kind of ignores the whole underlying 'the emperor was actually kind of a dumbass, like yeah he was a super genius but he was also a bit of a mouthbreather' thread that runs throughout the entirety of 40k.

 

A lot of the Emperor's decisions were shortsighted and self-indulgent. He doomed the galaxy to millenia of hellish warfare because he couldn't comprehend that the primarchs were people. It's not hard to imagine him missing stuff in his science work because he got distracted fellating himself over how great he was.

Or, with less hyperbole, they've been hinting for a while that the Emperor was in a major rush (likely to try and capitalize on the birth of Slaanesh to distract the attention of the other Chaos Gods) and rolled out an incomplete product and it bit him in the backside when they provedmto be so easilly corrupted.

[Dracos]

It's a bit of a weird situation as Inceptors/surpressors are both the Primaris "Assault marine equivalent" and the "bike equivalent" right now... though they're not really for close combat

I feel this is an excellent take on a Primaris Ravenwing unit. Maneuverable fire power that also is decent in a fight. The Gravis Armor benefits and recent upgrades make them better fighters than assault marines and the firepower pretty much on same level as bikers IMO.

 

I recently converted my Aggressors using St.Lazarus BTs as inspiration. Check his stuff. They look very much like Terminators and I think with a teleport stratagem they could perform exactly the same mission objectives Terminators do. At the moment I agree they’re a blend between Termies and Centurions.

 

Edit: I’m still concerned at the lack of true melee and true heavy weapon support. This should indicate my lack of faith concerning standard assault marines as true melee units. Or at least effective ones.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Dracos

[Volt]

A lot of this lore discussion kind of ignores the whole underlying 'the emperor was actually kind of a dumbass, like yeah he was a super genius but he was also a bit of a mouthbreather' thread that runs throughout the entirety of 40k.

 

A lot of the Emperor's decisions were shortsighted and self-indulgent. He doomed the galaxy to millenia of hellish warfare because he couldn't comprehend that the primarchs were people. It's not hard to imagine him missing stuff in his science work because he got distracted fellating himself over how great he was.

Except the Primarchs fell by their own fault. Like, the falls of the Primarchs is mostly due to exceptional weakness that you wouldn't actually expect from military officers in normal humanity. Horus? Dude had a bad DMT trip and suddenly he's a heretic. Fulgrim? Apparently listening to possessed objects talking to you is a reasonable thing and not something to immediately throw it into the fire? Perturabo? Fell because of a massive persecution complex and being a massive man-child to the point he strangled his own sister for pointing this out to him. Magnus? Fell because he constantly ignored direct orders and was a massive idiot who thought that random voices from a hell-dimension were trustworthy. Lorgar? The dude is the walking definition of emotional weakness and after being reprimanded by the Emperor he decided to betray literally everything he stood for simply for emotional self-assurance. Alpharius likewise is probably the greatest idiot of them all, considering he thought listening to the word of a cabal literally named the cabal is a good idea even if you have no idea what their actual motives are.

 

The Emperor's only two mistakes was not euthanizing Konrad Curze and Angron for being lost causes as those should have been obvious from the start. But the rest of the Traitor-Primarchs? Completely reasonable to not forsee their fall considering that one would expect them to behave like mature adults in a military and not children. If you were to replace the traitor Primarchs with just mere mortal men in their place it's unlikely the traitor legions would have even fallen in the first place. Their corruption is entirely the fault of the Primarchs for their own weakness and emotional insecurity. The only one who was justified and unpredictable was Mortarion, who got screwed over by Typhus. But it's definitely not the fault of the Emperor, that's blame shifting. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Volt

[BitsHammer]

Argue what you want about the Primarchs themselves, the Legions were poorly equipped to deal with Chaos directly and with how easilly the taint of chaos gripped a number of the Legions (even Horus' own showed signs of corruption before his fall) due to how much of a hurry the Emperor was to get his plan into place before the Chaos Gods noticed what he was doing. And he almost suceeded.

 

Problem is that short cuts can save time, but can also cost you time. Ten thousand years of it as the Imperium teetered on the brink of sliding back into the pre-unification state of being surrounded by chaos with no salvation in sight.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Fulkes

[jaxom]

It'd be relatively simple to add new sprue to Aggressors with new back-weapon and arm-weapon options. Force field generator for an invulnerable save and pneumatic-looking piledriver fists - okay, I have no basis for the piledriver fists, but some sort of super-power-fist.

[Volt]

It'd be relatively simple to add new sprue to Aggressors with new back-weapon and arm-weapon options. Force field generator for an invulnerable save and pneumatic-looking piledriver fists - okay, I have no basis for the piledriver fists, but some sort of super-power-fist.

Great, you didn't make a terminator replacement, and you certainly didn't make something that looks like it even belongs in warhammer for that matter. No TEQ should have a power pack or be standing fully upright, but hunched over and bulky.

[jaxom]

I think misunderstood the issue then. Is it that there's no Primaris with a clear aesthetic link to terminator armor and that aggressors don't look like they come from the warhammer setting?

[Volt]

I think misunderstood the issue then. Is it that there's no Primaris with a clear aesthetic link to terminator armor and that aggressors don't look like they come from the warhammer setting?

Yes. Gravis is fine as an up-armored version of power armor like MK 3 but it has nothing do with Terminators. Not technologically, not aesthetically, or even functionally.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Volt

[BitsHammer]

IIRC Gravis falls into the same roll of Space Hulk clearing and boarding action Taerminator armour does, meaning it is functionally deployed like Powerfist/Storm Bolter Terminators, minus the built in teleportation and invul save.

[Lord_Caerolion]

My thoughts on

Terminator + primaris = exterminatus armor.

 

2+ base save

3+ invulnerable

5+ mortal wound save.

 

S6, t6.

Probably a min squad of 3, Max of 6.

Can't be transported even by a repulsor, unless it counts as 3 models?

 

Is it called Exterminatus Armour because dropping a squad of those guys from orbit is a new method of committing the general usage of Exterminatus?

[Volt]

IIRC Gravis falls into the same roll of Space Hulk clearing and boarding action Taerminator armour does, meaning it is functionally deployed like Powerfist/Storm Bolter Terminators, minus the built in teleportation and invul save.

Except it's armed with pistols and not full ranged weapons.

[BitsHammer]

 

 

IIRC Gravis falls into the same roll of Space Hulk clearing and boarding action Taerminator armour does, meaning it is functionally deployed like Powerfist/Storm Bolter Terminators, minus the built in teleportation and invul save.

Except it's armed with pistols and not full ranged weapons.

Perfect for tight corridors and boarding actions where long range is useless.

 

EDIT: Also, save for the Gravis Captain, the standard Boltstorm gauntlet is Assault 3 making it more like a SMG than a pistol. Spraying bullets into an enclosed space makes them harder to dodge.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Fulkes

[Marshal Reinhard]

Aesthetically, terminators were a little ruined for me in general, ever since they made the new Abbadon with his fully working anatomy. I would hope any updated terminator design would be as good as his.

[Volt]

 

 

IIRC Gravis falls into the same roll of Space Hulk clearing and boarding action Taerminator armour does, meaning it is functionally deployed like Powerfist/Storm Bolter Terminators, minus the built in teleportation and invul save.

Except it's armed with pistols and not full ranged weapons.

Perfect for tight corridors and boarding actions where long range is useless.

 

EDIT: Also, save for the Gravis Captain, the standard Boltstorm gauntlet is Assault 3 making it more like a SMG than a pistol. Spraying bullets into an enclosed space makes them harder to dodge.

 

Except that translating a space hulk map to 40k (zone mortalis), they'd be out of range often, and in lore space hulks are actually massive objects with huge open spaces typical of imperial and eldar ships with the tight corridor fighting being more of a dated meme.

[Red_Shift]

Also its called tactical dreadnought armour for a reason. Deploy aggressors to a space hulk and it won't be five minutes before the cry of 'hold up brother, I've got my trailing ammunition belts snarled up in debris again' rings out.

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

 

IIRC Gravis falls into the same roll of Space Hulk clearing and boarding action Taerminator armour does, meaning it is functionally deployed like Powerfist/Storm Bolter Terminators, minus the built in teleportation and invul save.

Except it's armed with pistols and not full ranged weapons.

Perfect for tight corridors and boarding actions where long range is useless.

 

EDIT: Also, save for the Gravis Captain, the standard Boltstorm gauntlet is Assault 3 making it more like a SMG than a pistol. Spraying bullets into an enclosed space makes them harder to dodge.

 

Except that translating a space hulk map to 40k (zone mortalis), they'd be out of range often, and in lore space hulks are actually massive objects with huge open spaces typical of imperial and eldar ships with the tight corridor fighting being more of a dated meme.

 

 

Its not though, the good loot on a space hulk is going to be in the smaller chambers, not the big ones on a space hulk as they would be combed first. Open spaces will be multi-leveled with verticality/ crap all on the ground floor, so it would be pretty uncommon for clear sight lines across the entire area, would be plenty of area where you could not see until you get there etc. You want more compact mid to short ranged weapons for that kind of fighting. 

 

Primaris wise, don't see why we won't see primaris shoe box grav bikes with roll cages, hover tech is coming back more into the Imperium these days it would seem. 

[BitsHammer]

My hope is we keep more of this crude brute force grav tech. I mean, using brute force to solve problems like that is very Imperium. I mean Imperial aircraft (especially Astartes aircraft) look less like they fly because of Areodynamics and more because it falls foward faster than it falls down.

 

Plus bikes that punch the ground to stay aloft would be pretty cool.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Fulkes

[Lord_Caerolion]

My hope is we keep more of this crude brute force grav tech. I mean, using brute force to solve problems like that is very Imperium. I mean Imperial aircraft (especially Astartes aircraft) look less like they fly because of Areodynamics and more because it falls foward faster than it falls down.

 

Plus bikes that punch the ground to stay aloft would be pretty cool.

 

Hey, if it works for orbiting space stations, it can work for aircraft/jetbikes.

[jaxom]

Plus bikes that punch the ground to stay aloft would be pretty cool.

 

And now I can't the image of space marines on pogo sticks while firing bolt pistols out of my head.

[Vermintide]

My hope is we keep more of this crude brute force grav tech. I mean, using brute force to solve problems like that is very Imperium. I mean Imperial aircraft (especially Astartes aircraft) look less like they fly because of Areodynamics and more because it falls foward faster than it falls down.

 

Plus bikes that punch the ground to stay aloft would be pretty cool.

Agreed, imperial tech should be sturdy and unsophisticated, in appearance at least. Leave the fancy space magic to the elves and the fish.

[Triszin]

My hope is we keep more of this crude brute force grav tech. I mean, using brute force to solve problems like that is very Imperium. I mean Imperial aircraft (especially Astartes aircraft) look less like they fly because of Areodynamics and more because it falls foward faster than it falls down.

 

Plus bikes that punch the ground to stay aloft would be pretty cool.

110% agree.

 

I'd love to see a primaris cqc unit that uses repulsor shields, (crushing charge, and +1 t).