On Primaris and the future of 40k

[Vermintide]

 

The Emperor didn't have the same concerns with the Custodes and, even less, the Primarchs, which are his true masterpieces.

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the Custodes aren't even any variant of Marine. They're just dead 'ard bastards. Guardsmen on bath salts.

 

Are they supposed to be genetically engineered or not?

The Custodes were originally the children of kings and chieftains that were offered up to the Emperor, and were genetically screened to see if they were better than baseline humans. They're genetically augmented since birth to be superhuman.

 

Yes, they're genetically engineered, to an even higher extent than Marines.

 

 

 

 

The Emperor didn't have the same concerns with the Custodes and, even less, the Primarchs, which are his true masterpieces.

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the Custodes aren't even any variant of Marine. They're just dead 'ard bastards. Guardsmen on bath salts.

 

Are they supposed to be genetically engineered or not?

The Custodes were originally the children of kings and chieftains that were offered up to the Emperor, and were genetically screened to see if they were better than baseline humans. They're genetically augmented since birth to be superhuman.

 

Yes, they're genetically engineered, to an even higher extent than Marines.

 

Modern Custodes are taken from Noble Families and if 1 in 100 human can be an Astartes, 1 in 1000 can be a Custodes. They're that hard to produce because they're reworked from the genetic level on up (and strangely are never psykers or bothered by the presence of blanks).

 

 

Ahh, I gotcha. Organic, free range, Tesco Finest Marines, then. None of the crude artificial colourings or flavourings that a black carapace and a gene seed gives you, just a pure and refined superior being.

 

Makes sense.

[Rik Lightstar]

As I pointed out in another thread. Cawl was not part of the Astartes Project because he was not Terran nor Selenar. Those are the only two groups who began the Astartes project before the Great Crusade began. By the time of the Siege of Terra only one Selenar genewright is left and

 

she joins Abaddon during the Siege and give the traitors the Selenar lore. Horus’ forces are targeting resources to make new legionaries and the Emperor’s laboratory is far from the palace in the Northern Hemisphere of Terra.

 

Cawl is also promoted to Adept during the Heresy, and a low grade militaris adept at that. He is not a Genator or a Magos Biologis.

 

There is no way Cawl could’ve been involved with the Astartes project until they write him absorbing the memories of someone still alive from Terra or Selenar during the years before the Great Crusade.

 

Is it just the one book from the Horus Heresy series that contradicts it all by saying Cawl is younger and couldn't possibly have been there?

 

Because the AdMech book says he was OLD at the start of the Heresy.

 

It's a Galaxy with millions of human inhabited worlds, maybe there's two dudes with the same name?

 

Rik

[Marshal Rohr]

Possibly. But the same author is writing the first book in a new Cawl series right now. We will see where he takes it. Itsfar more likely that people just think he worked on the project given his current role, but the reality is different than the myth built up around him ten thousand years later.

[b1soul]

"I'm not a big fan of the Forgeworld Black Books claim that the Emperor himself is just another artificial genetic superman"

 

Which black book is this and which page? I've only heard of the claim in MoM that the Emp is a DAoT weapon left out of its box. It is a cool idea, that perhaps the Emp is the end-product of a DAoT genetic project to produce something like the Kwisatz Haderach a la Dune. The Anatolian "memories" are either false memories planted in his mind or propagandistic fabrications leveraged by him.

[Cruor Vault]

"I'm not a big fan of the Forgeworld Black Books claim that the Emperor himself is just another artificial genetic superman"

 

Which black book is this and which page? I've only heard of the claim in MoM that the Emp is a DAoT weapon left out of its box. It is a cool idea, that perhaps the Emp is the end-product of a DAoT genetic project to produce something like the Kwisatz Haderach a la Dune. The Anatolian "memories" are either false memories planted in his mind or propagandistic fabrications leveraged by him.

 

 

He might not be lying about his Anatolian origins.  It's possible He was a 'normal' Perpetual until DAoT and was exposed to some sort of weapon/device that improved His abilities. 

 

Like Moloch Beta.

[Marshal Rohr]

Iirc that was one of Alan’s personal ideas for what the Emperor is, but not a secret fact to be discovered over time. Just one of the many origin mythos the ‘informed’ of the Great Crusade bought into.

[b1soul]

The Emperor might have some ancient connection with the Old Ones. Perhaps he's an Old One or a construct of the Old Ones who went native on Old Earth. A lot of interesting theories. What if he's a highly advanced, human-resembling Man of Iron? He could also be the gestalt merging of prehistoric Shamans. I doubt his origin would ever be revealed, just endlessly teased, which I don't mind.

[BlueBiscuit Raider]

"I'm not a big fan of the Forgeworld Black Books claim that the Emperor himself is just another artificial genetic superman"

 

Which black book is this and which page? I've only heard of the claim in MoM that the Emp is a DAoT weapon left out of its box. It is a cool idea, that perhaps the Emp is the end-product of a DAoT genetic project to produce something like the Kwisatz Haderach a la Dune. The Anatolian "memories" are either false memories planted in his mind or propagandistic fabrications leveraged by him.

I have read somewhere that the Emperor's being a DaoT experiment/creation was simply the favorite option of the late Alan Blight, but I don't believe there has ever been a hard confirmation of the theory.

 

Onto the thread topic, I'm relatively new to the 40k community, having started following during the tail end of 7th edition. Although like many I played DoW 1 and 2 it was without ever realizing there was a TT game upon which they were based. All this to say that I'm not a long-time follower of the WH40K setting.

 

I don't like Primaris, simply because I find them unappealing on the two axis that I use to judge how much I like all 40k factions/armies: lore and design/aesthetic.

 

I don't like how they were introduced in the setting and the place that the current narrative is giving them. Plus, for all that people rejoiced at the setting moving forward after a long time, I find that the Rise of the Primarch and all that sprang from it - including primaris - was built much more on retcons which I didn't really like than it was a genuine step forward.

 

On the other hand on the entire range of Primaris models released so far, I can honestly say that the only ones I've like are the basic Intercessor/Hellblaster marine (with the caveat that I think their helmet is the ugliest among all marks) and the Eliminators, while the rest of their range are among the ugliest Imperium models I've seen.

 

That being my personal opinion, as marketing and media guy myself I find that if the info said in the OP is true than the creation of the new line was not only a smart decision but also a necessary one.

 

I'm certain that old Astartes are gonna linger for a while, but I wouldn't be surprised if by the time of an hypothetical 11th edition they may be seen only in the Chaos range, if at all.

[b1soul]

I actually really like the Reiver and Vanguard models. Very cool looking IMO

[BlueBiscuit Raider]

I actually really like the Reiver and Vanguard models. Very cool looking IMO

I'm happy that you do, I'm just saying that I don't. I don't hate them or anything, but something about them is just "No" for me, and unfortunately I'm not relly great at articulating the reasons for my tastes.

[Bat33.1]

 

I know I'm being a little cynical but tastes change and games need to as well in the long run, even if it means leaving us behind.

I know I am a bit of a naysayer re: Primaris but I still find myself hoping that this all turns out more like the ending of Jurassic World? Not to spoil but anyone who saw it should get my meaning...

 

The newfangled and ridiculously-named “Indominus Rex” gets taken down by the classic Tyrannosaurus Rex.

 

 

I don't see them using that exact example but the tension between old and new could easily be used to set a new Badab conflict up without going full Horus Heresy 2.0

[BitsHammer]

I don't see them using that exact example but the tension between old and new could easily be used to set a new Badab conflict up without going full Horus Heresy 2.0

If it wasn't for the fact they can upgrade the old guard I'd agree, but tensions can't run rampant as easily as they did now that things have release valve.

[Lexington]

An actual spate of intra-Chapter wars like that would be impossible to make sense of from a model line standpoint, so I think we can safely rule it out.

[Vermintide]

I actually really like the Reiver and Vanguard models. Very cool looking IMO

 

Reivers are great, and stuff like the Vanguard Librarian and Eliminators are great. On the other hand Infiltrators/Incursors are way too busy and clunky. Suppressors... Does anybody like Suppressors? Anybody?

 

Same with the OG Primaris release really. Intercessors and Hellblasters? Awesome. Inceptors? Pretty cool, but the poses, man... They look like they're flying through the power of flatulence, honestly. Aggressors, I really like the armour but the gauntlets... Ugh. And the Repulsors all look like daleks.

 

It's hit and miss, but the good stuff is at least really good. They just need to bring in a Primaris beaky...

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

Suppressors... Does anybody like Suppressors? Anybody?

 

Yes. I do wish they had more visible thrusters on them though.

 

I hope they do more with Omnis armor. 

[BitsHammer]

 

I actually really like the Reiver and Vanguard models. Very cool looking IMO

 

Reivers are great, and stuff like the Vanguard Librarian and Eliminators are great. On the other hand Infiltrators/Incursors are way too busy and clunky. Suppressors... Does anybody like Suppressors? Anybody?

 

Same with the OG Primaris release really. Intercessors and Hellblasters? Awesome. Inceptors? Pretty cool, but the poses, man... They look like they're flying through the power of flatulence, honestly. Aggressors, I really like the armour but the gauntlets... Ugh. And the Repulsors all look like daleks.

 

It's hit and miss, but the good stuff is at least really good. They just need to bring in a Primaris beaky...

 

I honestly like every Primaris release we've gotten so far.

 

Inceptors and Suppressors could use some reposing since flying poses are pretty hard, but not impossible, to make feel dynamic and sensible.

[Red_Shift]

 

I actually really like the Reiver and Vanguard models. Very cool looking IMO

 

 

Reivers are great, and stuff like the Vanguard Librarian and Eliminators are great. On the other hand Infiltrators/Incursors are way too busy and clunky. Suppressors... Does anybody like Suppressors? Anybody?

 

Same with the OG Primaris release really. Intercessors and Hellblasters? Awesome. Inceptors? Pretty cool, but the poses, man... They look like they're flying through the power of flatulence, honestly. Aggressors, I really like the armour but the gauntlets... Ugh. And the Repulsors all look like daleks.

 

It's hit and miss, but the good stuff is at least really good. They just need to bring in a Primaris beaky...

I don't think I'm going to be able to un see inceptors flatuating across the table top now! I get what they were going for with them crashing down from orbit but I agree the poses could be better.

 

The aggressor gauntlets are kind of naff and the kit in general benefits from being reposed into firing posture rather than striding. I don't know what they were thinking with the groin bling.

 

It's surely only a matter of time before veteran intercessors get a kit so hopefully some classic helms will appear, although I fear they will spoil them with too much clutter like they did with the other veteran boxes. If they want to stick laurels and things in that players can add then great but I don't want all that on my veterans

[Kenzaburo]

I do like the Inceptors look-wise. The fluff, as they are described in Dark Imperium, was a bit meh tho. The limitation on their fuel as well as their weapons made them sound like being only to find for a very short margin of the entire battle. And the POV character in that book wasn't mentioning anything about picking up another weapon and dumping the heavy jetpack to continue the fight. It genuinely sounded like once the ammo and fuel is gone, they are out of the fight.

 

The aggressors are so-so. I'm still afraid that Terminators with their just awesome looking design, their hulkiness, the cool helmet might be replaced by the in comparison rather underwhelming aggressors. And yeah, that groin bling...that is just really weird.

 

And for now, I find the lack of heavy bolters disturbing. They are by far my favorite heavy weapon, looks-wise. With no real idea of heavy weapons squads among Primaris (apart from the pistol-like Hbolters on the inceptors), I'm dreading the end of the beloved monster-version of the regular bolter. :/

[RandomMarine]

 

 

 

 

The Emperor didn't have the same concerns with the Custodes and, even less, the Primarchs, which are his true masterpieces.

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the Custodes aren't even any variant of Marine. They're just dead 'ard bastards. Guardsmen on bath salts.

 

Are they supposed to be genetically engineered or not?

The Custodes were originally the children of kings and chieftains that were offered up to the Emperor, and were genetically screened to see if they were better than baseline humans. They're genetically augmented since birth to be superhuman.

 

Yes, they're genetically engineered, to an even higher extent than Marines.

 

 

 

 

The Emperor didn't have the same concerns with the Custodes and, even less, the Primarchs, which are his true masterpieces.

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the Custodes aren't even any variant of Marine. They're just dead 'ard bastards. Guardsmen on bath salts.

 

Are they supposed to be genetically engineered or not?

The Custodes were originally the children of kings and chieftains that were offered up to the Emperor, and were genetically screened to see if they were better than baseline humans. They're genetically augmented since birth to be superhuman.

 

Yes, they're genetically engineered, to an even higher extent than Marines.

Modern Custodes are taken from Noble Families and if 1 in 100 human can be an Astartes, 1 in 1000 can be a Custodes. They're that hard to produce because they're reworked from the genetic level on up (and strangely are never psykers or bothered by the presence of blanks).

Ahh, I gotcha. Organic, free range, Tesco Finest Marines, then. None of the crude artificial colourings or flavourings that a black carapace and a gene seed gives you, just a pure and refined superior being.

 

Makes sense.

Nah its

Thunder warrior = Tesco value

Astartes = normal Tesco food

Primaris = Tesco finesf

Custodes = M&S food

[Marshal Rohr]

 

 

 

 

The Emperor didn't have the same concerns with the Custodes and, even less, the Primarchs, which are his true masterpieces.

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the Custodes aren't even any variant of Marine. They're just dead 'ard bastards. Guardsmen on bath salts.

 

Are they supposed to be genetically engineered or not?

The Custodes were originally the children of kings and chieftains that were offered up to the Emperor, and were genetically screened to see if they were better than baseline humans. They're genetically augmented since birth to be superhuman.

 

Yes, they're genetically engineered, to an even higher extent than Marines.

 

 

 

The Emperor didn't have the same concerns with the Custodes and, even less, the Primarchs, which are his true masterpieces.

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, the Custodes aren't even any variant of Marine. They're just dead 'ard bastards. Guardsmen on bath salts.

 

Are they supposed to be genetically engineered or not?

The Custodes were originally the children of kings and chieftains that were offered up to the Emperor, and were genetically screened to see if they were better than baseline humans. They're genetically augmented since birth to be superhuman.

 

Yes, they're genetically engineered, to an even higher extent than Marines.

Modern Custodes are taken from Noble Families and if 1 in 100 human can be an Astartes, 1 in 1000 can be a Custodes. They're that hard to produce because they're reworked from the genetic level on up (and strangely are never psykers or bothered by the presence of blanks).

Ahh, I gotcha. Organic, free range, Tesco Finest Marines, then. None of the crude artificial colourings or flavourings that a black carapace and a gene seed gives you, just a pure and refined superior being.

 

Makes sense.

Nah its

Thunder warrior = Tesco value

Astartes = normal Tesco food

Primaris = Tesco finesf

Custodes = M&S food

 

 

This allegory is lost on me

[Gederas]

This allegory is lost on me

Let me use a car example:

 

Space Marines are like Chevrolet Corvettes (Gen 7 and older), Primaris are C8 Corvettes and Custodes are like Koenigseggs. Similar purposes, but vastly different in creation and how they do that purpose. Basically, both Corvettes and Koenigsegg are sports cars.

 

The former are mass-produced (and therefore, expendable and replaceable), the latter is hand-crafted and far more resource-intensive.

 

.... The analogy also works, as a LOT of people complained about the new C8 Corvette's change to be a mid-engine vehicle and that it's "no longer a Corvette".

[Marshal Rohr]

 

This allegory is lost on me

Let me use a car example:

 

Space Marines are like Chevrolet Corvettes (Gen 7 and older), Primaris are C8 Corvettes and Custodes are like Koenigseggs. Similar purposes, but vastly different in creation and how they do that purpose. Basically, both Corvettes and Koenigsegg are sports cars.

 

The former are mass-produced (and therefore, expendable and replaceable), the latter is hand-crafted and far more resource-intensive.

 

.... The analogy also works, as a LOT of people complained about the new C8 Corvette's change to be a mid-engine vehicle and that it's "no longer a Corvette".

 

 

Other than the German car, I got that one :D

[Gederas]

This allegory is lost on me

Let me use a car example:

 

Space Marines are like Chevrolet Corvettes (Gen 7 and older), Primaris are C8 Corvettes and Custodes are like Koenigseggs. Similar purposes, but vastly different in creation and how they do that purpose. Basically, both Corvettes and Koenigsegg are sports cars.

 

The former are mass-produced (and therefore, expendable and replaceable), the latter is hand-crafted and far more resource-intensive.

 

.... The analogy also works, as a LOT of people complained about the new C8 Corvette's change to be a mid-engine vehicle and that it's "no longer a Corvette".

Other than the German car, I got that one

It's actually Swedish, but yeah.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Gederas

[Robbienw]

Nah its

Thunder warrior = Tesco value

Astartes = normal Tesco food

Primaris = Tesco finesf

Custodes = M&S food

This is the best analogy I have ever seen, and you win the internet :D

[TorvaldTheMild]

I really tried to give Primaris a go, the intecessor models looked so amazing and I loved the inceptors and aggressors, but that is it, everything else I don't like and its not the army I came to love, same for the abolishment of options, powerfits etc. not just for rules sake, for the fact that they look cool.  The army is just tau in power armour now and even though I have a Primaris army, I started disliking them more and more and now I can't even bring myself to paint another unit.  I really can't stand the army.  Its not such a big deal for me as my primary army is World Eaters but my loyalist SM's are now just Custodes and GK's (hopefully they won't be ruined).  I really feel bad for people that feel the same as me and SM's are their primary army.

Edited August 27, 2019 by TorvaldTheMild