How will the Psychic Awakening affect the Grey Knights?

[Dumah]

Special Characters can't take relics.

[Waking Dreamer]

^ Even named characters who don't have relics themselves?

 

In the codex it states, "Named characters such as Lord Kaldor Draigo already have one or more artifacts and cannot be given any of the following relics."

 

Is that still applicable for Stern? Checking his datasheet all his war gear is generic. I mean if it does, never mind just something I thought I noticed.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Waking Dreamer

[angrom]

Ok I have some challenging questions which depending on how we interprete can be very strong or mehh.

First one is how does the stratagem that add 6" to psychic range work with smite and bro captain. Let s say we have a purifier squad that smite D6 mortal in 3". Does it mean that we can give them (3+6)*2 =18" range or 3*2+6= 12" ?.

 

The second one is harder. We now have a stratagem that applies on purifier to give a 4++ save when opponent shoot at them. The sanctuary power gives a 5++ save or +1 to existing invu. So how does the two work together? Is it that you get a 5++ and then when the stratagem apply it overwrite the save from sanctuary to give only a 4++ or is it that suddenly sanctuary takes in account the new 4++ to give a 3++?

[Biscuittzz]

Lore master CAN know one more spell from Sanctic Discipline, but CANNOT generate powers from more than one disciline. So I assume, no, you cannot give Voldus powers from two disciplines if he is warlord.

 

You still can GoI him with another unit with proper positioning, though.

 

Ahhh you're right. I overlooked the 'know' vs 'generate'. Wouldn't be cost effective if you're dropping an additional character with Voldus as you might as well keep Voldus out of the way in the first place.

 

Draigo on the other hand may be an idea. Drop in, do Inner Fire and then just tank anything with transhuman and other strats and powers. 

[Corvus Fortis]

I would think that WT needs to be updated to make more sense / proper use of it. It should be updated to be applicable for either Discipline.

 

 

Yeah, I hope this will be addressed when we are getting our codex. I expect a new wave of codicies after psychic awakening.

 

 

-2 to hit against our FLYERS seems okay so far, how often can you keep a SR completely in terrain?

 

 

FAQ definition of "wholly on or within" states that even if a base is parially upon terrain piece, than unit recieves benifit of cover. It is very possible with various large ruins.

 

 

From a competitive stand point it seems that the optimal way to play greyknight is to spam purgation squads and flyers supported with chaplain and few psykers, and use our powers to shoot from cover and benefit from the shrouding.

 

 

I don't get why everyone so hyped about psi-weapons. Tide of Convergence deny cover bonus, deny smite bonus, works on 2-3 units from you army, unless you spam heavy weapons on all your squads. Most bonuses affect only one unit per turn though litaniess and stratagems. With 24 range you still have to think how to bring them to the front. They won't operate at full strength till turn 3. And, most importantly, they are heavy, which cuts their mobility. Vehicles don't benifit from tide either.

 

Compare this to 10 stormbolters on Paladins with Psybolt ammunition. They are steady platform, very durable, fire on move at full strength with the same range. Paladins are also cheaper per wound than strikes. -1 damage on them is critical. Even though 2 CP, it makes it impossible to kill them with one shots, since there are no rapid fire weapons with damage 3+. They even can survive dark angels plasma shower. Yes, you still have sacrifice the whole tide to the single unit, but 40 6 -2 2 shots is plain better than 16 9 -3 2.

 

The best implementation of purgators I can think of is the following:

 

1) the same turn you use Paladin Bulletstorm, drop them within 12 from the targets from reserves for 1 CP;

2) after you used all smites and other casts, shift to tide of convergence;

3) cast full reroll to hit on them, so they can reroll 1's, 2's and 3's;

4) Use full reroll to-wound stratagem on target (shoot with characters stormbolter to trigger it);

5) Use psychic onslaught on them for -1 AP more;

6) They will die next turn 90% of time, unless you have won already.

 

I'd like to see how other players can handle them, but I will remain sceptical until then.

 

It really feels that the lacks of bonus to charge or advance+charge option totally missed the what grey knights are for.

 

 

 

We have to forget about "GK are best in close combat" stereotype. We, probably, were in 7th and before but absolutely not now. Now trying to play from close combat is a trap. Criple your enemies with bolter fusilades and psychic barrage, then finish them with close combat assault. That's how we played through the past year and new rules only encourages this playstyle. First to the Fray is still our best WT (can sometimes compete with Lore Master now) and we will be okay with turn 3-4 charges.

 

Perhaps, buff then gate a paladin squad first turn right in the middle in cover to act as a bullet magnet or a grey knight psy character bomb detachment souping with raven guard centurions for efficient melee delivery.

 

 

You cannot soup with anything but a single Inquisitor now, without losing Masters of the Warp, which kind of eliminates our main strengths.

 

Hmm...am I correct in thinking you can now give BroCap Stern the relic Force Sword?

 

 

Stern doesn't have relic weapons, but consider him having an artifact that gives him Zone of Banishment. Probably. You never can give an artefact to a named character.

 

Let s say we have a purifier squad that smite D6 mortal in 3".

 

 

Purifiers doesn't have Rites of Banishment. They cannot use stratagem to increase their smite's range.

 

The second one is harder. We now have a stratagem that applies on purifier to give a 4++ save when opponent shoot at them. The sanctuary power gives a 5++ save or +1 to existing invu. So how does the two work together? Is it that you get a 5++ and then when the stratagem apply it overwrite the save from sanctuary to give only a 4++ or is it that suddenly sanctuary takes in account the new 4++ to give a 3++?

 

 

RAW purifiers will gain 3++. I guess, this is nice for a 17 pts model. You can try to use them as a defensive unit. Still not a competivive choice, I guess.

[Captain Coolpants]

How will this affect our list making?

Im thinking definitely 2 librarians now, or a librarian and voldus all the time.

Im also seeing less and less appeal in GMNDK's.

 

Im not seeing this appeal in flyer spam you lot are. So many things just ignore cover these days it kinda means nothing. Dark reapers and fists just don't care. And our fliers are kinda lame.

[Holier Than Thou]

Quick rules question. If a Chaplain uses his Litany and then Gates to a new location, does the Litany continue or is it removed?

[Corvus Fortis]

Im thinking definitely 2 librarians now, or a librarian and voldus all the time.

 

 

Voldus absolutely worth his points. He is a beast in close combat, more durable and gives reroll 1's. I think, I want him in every list.

 

 

Im also seeing less and less appeal in GMNDK's.

 

 

I see no point in brining more than one. We don't have sactuary or CP to spend on HtP. But I like idea of single GMNDK with Edict Imperator. 16 move + shooting, when charge the next turn. He could be nice distraction carnifex and devastating with new stratagem.

 

 

Im not seeing this appeal in flyer spam you lot are. So many things just ignore cover these days it kinda means nothing. Dark reapers and fists just don't care. And our fliers are kinda lame.

 

 

This things existed earlier and neither stopped eldar flyer spam. I don't think that bringing more than 1 or 2 is worth it. Besides, ignore cover doesn't deny -1 to-hit in cover. We can use them to support interceptors at cleaning chaff duty.

 

 

Quick rules question. If a Chaplain uses his Litany and then Gates to a new location, does the Litany continue or is it removed?

 

 

I does continue. But most litanies are hard to pull off since they require a unit to be chosen instantly after chant. Litanies that gives chaplain AoE buff will work through out the turn even after GoI.

[Captain Coolpants]

But things like dark reapers always hit on 3+ regardless of modifiers.

 

I'm liking the idea of a distraction dreadknight with edict actually. But I don't think I'll shell out for the master dreadknight. Would be a basic Flamer fist wielding dude to make it more "throw away".

[Corvus Fortis]

But things like dark reapers always hit on 3+ regardless of modifiers.

 

 

Dark Reapers is a single unit in a single army out of two dozens. Unless your common opponent doesn't specificaly spam them, I see no problem.

[Librarian Seraphiel]

Hello! With these new rules that we're getting can't we get our paladins to only be wounded on 5's because of Transhuman with the psychic power that gives them a -1 to wound or am I just thinking super hopefully?

[Tralador]

I am fairly certain Transhuman is unmodified 4+, so you would want to use your -1 vs lasguns and 4+ vs heavy guns.

[Captain Coolpants]

I really thought there would be more "buzz" here. Guess all the GK players have given up and left lol. Definitely a lot quieter than it was a year ago.

[Corvus Fortis]

Hello! With these new rules that we're getting can't we get our paladins to only be wounded on 5's because of Transhuman with the psychic power that gives them a -1 to wound or am I just thinking super hopefully?

 

As has been said, just one or another. You want to use the cast most of the times. THP is better only against S8+ high volume of fire weapons, such as plasma shower or knight stomps.

 

I really thought there would be more "buzz" here. Guess all the GK players have given up and left lol. Definitely a lot quieter than it was a year ago.

 

 

Same here. Seems very true. Looks like only true sons of titan survived this dark times.

[Archon_77]

Give it time brothers.... when people start seeing the Sons of Titan on the table again it will feed its own buzz.

[Holier Than Thou]

To be fair, we’ve been kicked in the teeth so much it’s hard to get excited. Even out of just the three factions in this book, we don’t get the biggest boosts despite being the faction in most need for the longest time, the boosts we do get don’t bring us close to the top (not that we want to be IHs level of stupid), and going from previous experience, it’s reasonable to worry that every subsequent book will nullify the boosts we did get.

 

But, yeah, at least we didn’t get worse.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Holier Than Thou

[Icosiel]

Inner Fire is such a cool power. The number of times I've had a single character deep amidst a throng of enemies with nothing to do but basic Smite or Gate away... Oof. I really love the idea of this silver-clad warrior making a last stand deep in the enemy's backline and releasing all of his psychic strength to melt as many foes as he can before he falls. I think I'm going to use Inner Fire a lot.

[Corvus Fortis]

We don’t get the biggest boosts just out of the three factions in the same book, they don’t bring us close to the top

 

 

But we did. DA got 30 pages vs our 10 pages, but at closer look all they recieved are standard SM stuff and primaris profile updates. Their new character is nice but nothing exceptional and only boost their previously used Azrael Gunline build. Both wings got some nice stuff but nothing to make them truly competitive. Unique doctrine is wierd and hardly corresponds with DA combined assault style, which they use fluff-wise.

 

Thousand Sons got even less. I don't see how the stuff they got moves them out Ahriman/DP soup addon state they are in. Their cults are nice and fluffy but revolves mainly around mages and squat marines in our world of snipers and primaris.

 

We are, on the contrary, got almost every single thing we were asking for. We've got mobility, we've got defence, we've got damage, we've got psychic phase buffed up to eleven. My expectation were ultra-low, but, somehow GW managed not to screw it up.

 

We are not Vanilla or Space Elves level, but we will pound to dust any army without psychic defence. And we are an anti-daemon force we are supposed to be at last. I am sure that GK will now find place in team tournaments and make way to top 10's here and there.

 

ETC favours GK very much because of schemes of war. Priority Orders recieved, Master of the Warp, No Prisoners are almost free VP for us.

 

Finally, we've got unque stratagems for almost all of our unit types which makes them way more interesting. Now we don't have absolute trash tier units that we won't bring even to a friendly game.

 

I see absolutely no reason to whine now except if out of habit.

[TheMostGood]

It’s sometimes hard to see how the pieces come together since it’s relatively new and there hasn’t been many games if any played with the new rules.

 

But from what other people in the competitive scene are saying, this supplement is certainly strong.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k6kFiooV-60

[Waking Dreamer]

It’s sometimes hard to see how the pieces come together since it’s relatively new and there hasn’t been many games if any played with the new rules.

 

But from what other people in the competitive scene are saying, this supplement is certainly strong.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k6kFiooV-60

 

Lawerence from Tabletop Tactics has said he is already thinking about bringing mono-GK to a couple Grand Tournaments in 2020.

 

Considering the last time he tried a serious tournament list with GK was in an Imperial Soup, consisting of a GK Outrider detachment (GMNDK & Interceptors) + Loyal 32 + Imperial Knight where he did okay-ish (winning 3 out of 5 games iirc)...to deciding mono-GK is most likely better than that now....dayum - that's a pretty big leap in competitive power-level for us lowly mono-GK players. 

[Corvus Fortis]

Consider our stongest stuff comes from Masters of the Warp, I personally don't see point in GK+alles. Either pure GK or GK as a support force to other faction (nice CP generator or vortex bomb maybe?).

[angrom]

I still see a lot of potential for a greyknight psychic bomb with 3-4 character deepstriking and taking down a key unit even without master of the warp.

Food for thought. 3 Characters including crowe and a bro cap that deepstrike with a ancient with banner will output a inner fire will pop 6-8 mortal wound + D6 for the banner + d3 or even d6 more for vortex of doom and another d6 for crowe smite. Thats 6-8 + 3d6 mortal wounds

[TheMostGood]

 

 

It’s sometimes hard to see how the pieces come together since it’s relatively new and there hasn’t been many games if any played with the new rules.

 

But from what other people in the competitive scene are saying, this supplement is certainly strong.

 

Lawerence from Tabletop Tactics has said he is already thinking about bringing mono-GK to a couple Grand Tournaments in 2020.

 

Considering the last time he tried a serious tournament list with GK was in an Imperial Soup, consisting of a GK Outrider detachment (GMNDK & Interceptors) + Loyal 32 + Imperial Knight where he did okay-ish (winning 3 out of 5 games iirc)...to deciding mono-GK is most likely better than that now....dayum - that's a pretty big leap in competitive power-level for us lowly mono-GK players.

Don’t forget, Erik won the Briscon tournament with mono grey knights.

 

https://www.glasshammergaming.co.uk/2019/05/09/interview-with-the-grey-knight-winner-of-briscon/

 

Imagine how he would fare with these buffs and that list?

[Holier Than Thou]

 

We don’t get the biggest boosts just out of the three factions in the same book, they don’t bring us close to the top

 

I see absolutely no reason to whine now except if out of habit.

Not whining, just responding to someone who seemed to be questioning why we weren’t all dancing in the streets. I think it’s reasonable that past experience has tempered my celebrations.

 

The buffs do make us far better than we were (not hard) and I am happy we got more than just a token look (like you, my expectations were super low) but I disagree that they beat what was given to the Dark Angels. Just gaining access to the Primaris stuff gives them a huge boost, which is then amplified by the other boosts they got.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Holier Than Thou

[Corvus Fortis]

I still see a lot of potential for a greyknight psychic bomb with 3-4 character deepstriking and taking down a key unit even without master of the warp.

Food for thought. 3 Characters including crowe and a bro cap that deepstrike with a ancient with banner will output a inner fire will pop 6-8 mortal wound + D6 for the banner + d3 or even d6 more for vortex of doom and another d6 for crowe smite. Thats 6-8 + 3d6 mortal wounds

 

 

Well, this is exactly how we played before and this was probably our only viable bit to show some imitation of competition. Also note that besides Tide of Escalation the only to offensive psychic buffs we've got are: 1) inner fire; 2) reliable vortex. And inner fire is only can be used with dynamic insertion and will expose a character. Also, there is no way to smite with crowe out of DS. He cannot use powerful adept.

 

This once again brings up the GK dilemma which I encountered since my early days in the hobby (and, I'm sure, it existed since 6th edition): if you bring GK as allies, are you sure that other factions cannot do the same stuff but better? If you take more than 25% of allies to GK, do you really need to play as GK at all? Of course, this applies to competitive games only.

 

 

The buffs do make us far better than we were (not hard) and I am happy we got more than just a token look (like you, my expectations were super low) but I disagree that they beat what was given to the Dark Angels. Just gaining access to the Primaris stuff gives them a huge boost, which is then amplified by the other boosts they got.

 

 

But DA already had this primaris stuff since codex SM faq, which unlocked shock assault for us. All my fellow DA are not quite happy with new stuff. While they've got codex SM stratagems, they don't utilize much units to use them on. Vanilla SM are better at that on every occasion. Ravenwing and Deathwing buffs made them better but nearly not enough to give reason for taking them outside of friendly games. New doctines, chaptertactics itself and even chaplain litany are all favours static gunline screened by scouts/intercessors.

 

Just imagine if the best winners from PA update for GK were razorbacks, landraiders and dreadnoughts so the best GK build would be las-razor gunline with couple of LRs and VenDreads and Draigo only there to give them rerolls to-hit while strikes are only troops and taken just to fill battalion slots and hold objectives. This is pretty much describes what happened to DA.