How will the Psychic Awakening affect the Grey Knights?

[Corvus Fortis]

How are GK's looking with PA?

 

 

Absolutely amazing!

 

Unless PA is actually Power Armor.

 

In this case... well, absolutely amazing too!

[Waking Dreamer]

How are GK's looking with PA?

Solidly above Deathwatch and Space Wolves. Maybe around Black Templar Supplement level...?

 

In comparison to the Grey Knights Codex Amendments rules I've been using, on paper PA4 rules seems about 75%-85% of a boost compared to that rule-set over the GK codex, again that's just a current estimate based only on theory-crafting so far...since I haven't tried the rules in an actual game yet.

 

Essentially, what you need to keep in mind in approaching PA4's GK rules: Mono-Grey Knights have become a lot better - but NOT any easier to play.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Waking Dreamer

[Tralador]

A lot of your game plan will happen in list building now. Because of how the tides work, you will have to decide early if your turn 2 deep strike hammer blow is going to use escalation or convergence. With convergence you will want as many psilencers as you can get your grubby mits on. With escalation you want units, all the units.

 

Who has what powers and WHERE they are each turn is going to hugely impact your game. Chaplain litanies are great, but you have to use them even before moving, so again placement and movement are key. Terrain, deployment, and deep strike placement are going to make or break your game. Smart opponents who screen well can reduce, but not eliminate how crippling your deep strikers can be, so you will have to play smart.

 

Finally, other than paladins who eat CP and points for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Your army will be mostly T4 3+ And will die in droves if they get out maneuvered or you mis-step.

 

 

I am the (glass) hammer, I am the mail about His fist.

I am the (dangerous now!) Spear in His hand.

Though we are lost, I am the (fragile) shield on His arm.

I am the flight of His arrows. I am the (really good glass) hammer.

I am the sword. I am the (breakable) shield.

I am a soldier at the battle at the end of time (or after the enemy shooting phase, whichever comes first)

 

*All statements are my opinion and subject to rigorous play testing and debate before they should be considered as correct

Edited January 25, 2020 by Tralador

[Corvus Fortis]

So this makes us Imperial Eldar, huh?

[TheMostGood]

So this makes us Imperial Eldar, huh?

 

Most armies have distinct play styles so it's hard to compare it like that. 

 

Eldar have some psychic abilities around a more elite focused army with big power guns and multiple options in terms of units. 

 

Grey Knights have psychic heavy abilities around a more elite focused army that is decent in close combat, but lacking in model choice and shooting. 

 

Not to suggest that GK are inherently weaker, just a different play style. 

[angrom]

I really dont know what is the best strategy to play greyknight now. Between a list that totally embrace our elite feel with purifier psy storm bolt 3++ with paladins buffed up using mostly other psy power but smite. And a list with plenty of small squads of strike for maximum smite. I feel that both have pros and cons. The moment you add some expensive elite choices the smite spam become less and less relevant. The elite route allows us to use fully some of our protective options and somewhat works better against high ap lists (laeviathan..). What is your feel? Paladin bomb or full smite?

[Corvus Fortis]

Paladin bomb or full smite?

 

 

Paladin bomb. You don't really have a choice here. You want strikes only for CP and they can add some on, but that's it. To fully protect paladins you'll need only sanctuary and Armored Resilience. Give Draigo full Sanctic with Hammerhand (or Astral Aim or Gate) and Sanctuary and Voldus with AR, Edict Imperator and Inner Fire. Get Apothecary, Brother Captain and Brotherhood champion nearby. Here you go - 5 2 MW smites and single d6 smite. BTW, Stern can cast two psychic powers, but his smite is half range. Also don't forget mental focus, which allows to cast one more power per turn. You still have your strikes and interceprtos and chaplain can join via GoI too. Leave Librarian with +1 for casts relic somewhere safe so he can do tide shifting and give you CP. You don't even need double battalion here - single and Vanguard will be enough. If you still want more characters, take Supreme Command with crowe, techmarine and BroChamp. This will be 244 pts - rather expensive but you receive a CP and 3 more powers from Dominus.

 

Use stormbolters to clear chaff, Psybolt + Bring down the Beast to remove large targets and smite will deal with elite. By turn 3 or 4 you easily reach close combat, but probably out of CP and paladins, but you characters are still fresh and dangerous.  Use strikes and interceptors to hold objectives. You should be still be tabled or almost tabled by turn 6-7, but still win by CP.

[Seizeman]

There's no reason to give sanctic powers to characters. Give sanctuary to GMNDKS, gate to strikes, hammerhand to paladins and astral aim to dreadnoughts and you are set. Purge soul and vortex of doom are just bad smites, so no don't take them.

 

Voldus + Draigo is too much unless you are playing 2500+ points, just pick one of them. I think Voldus is better because of the extra power and cheaper cost.

 

Paladins don't need sanctuary. Thanks to tide of shadows, they save on 4+ against AP -3 anyway, so there's not much incentive to use sanctuary on them, and your GMNDKs need it. Give them armoured resilience, put them on terrain if possible and use transhuman resilience or redoubtable defence when needed. That gives them more than enough durability.

 

Strikes are actually good now. The -1 to hit and the cost reduction make them alot more efficient. They also do full smites when tide of escalation is on. They do good damage and you need someone to take objectives, protect characters, etc, and they make sure you have a gate of infinity available when you need it. I'd play at least 4 of them, ideally 5 or 6.

 

I just posted a 2k points list with my reasoning for the choices and tactics on the subforum, if anyone is interested.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Hi guys,

I usually only post in the BA section of the BnC, but that might change soon. With the upcoming PA4 and the boost it's brought to the Grey Knights, I've been pondering to start this iconic faction as my second 40k army. I have been pondering that since I first laid eyes on the Daemonhunter-Codex, to be honest. Time and money kept me from doing so, but at least one of those things isn't the main obstacle anymore. Going to try out an airbrush as well that I'm hoping to get in good used condition.

 

One question that remains in my head though - am I insane for wanting to do this? GK were (well, still are since PA isn't technically released yet), struggling against most armies and offer what seems to be few strong builds which could get boring in a while. Even with the PA power increase they will probably have a hard time against marines, guard, dark eldar and anything that kills marines easily. 40k on hardmode is real.

 

Cheers!

[Seizeman]

Hi guys,

I usually only post in the BA section of the BnC, but that might change soon. With the upcoming PA4 and the boost it's brought to the Grey Knights, I've been pondering to start this iconic faction as my second 40k army. I have been pondering that since I first laid eyes on the Daemonhunter-Codex, to be honest. Time and money kept me from doing so, but at least one of those things isn't the main obstacle anymore. Going to try out an airbrush as well that I'm hoping to get in good used condition.

 

One question that remains in my head though - am I insane for wanting to do this? GK were (well, still are since PA isn't technically released yet), struggling against most armies and offer what seems to be few strong builds which could get boring in a while. Even with the PA power increase they will probably have a hard time against marines, guard, dark eldar and anything that kills marines easily. 40k on hardmode is real.

 

Cheers!

 

I'm quite sure they are competitive now. Not tier 1, probably (SM are on a tier of their own), but good enough that you can win a tornament if things go yout way.

 

I've played a competitve game against eldar (itc, precious cargo), the kind that hides out of LOS/deny and ignores 90% of your melee potential for most of the game, and won. The new rules make them more durable than I though they would. GMNDKs now get +1 to saves and -1 to hit, as do dreadnoughts (plus a stratagem), paladins get that plus -1 to wound, plus 2 different defensive stratagems. It used to be that GMNDKs would be blown up first turn, and the rest of the army on the second, but with the new rules, the three units were still alive after two full turns of shooting, and the last GMNDK was not killed until the 4th turn. My opponent, seeing as their weapons weren't doing great against them, tried to shoot my dreads, but it became clear that it was simply not worth it to do so. I wasn't able to do much melee or smiting really, and still almost tabled my opponent (we were both quite low on units, but most strikes and 2 dreads were still alive, and not many threats to them remained, so they were able to finish the job).

 

Seeing my army do well against a top tier army gives me great hope. Against armies that can't hide so well (or in scenarios with central objectives) they should do even better.

 

In any case, GW have shown that they have the will (if not the prowess) to somewhat balance the game, so no matter what you play, your army will be good at some point. Besides, GKs are a relatively cheap and small army, so they have that going for them. If you really like the models and how the army feels (and you want another "marine" army), I'd go for it.

[Corvus Fortis]

There's no reason to give sanctic powers to characters. Give sanctuary to GMNDKS, gate to strikes, hammerhand to paladins and astral aim to dreadnoughts and you are set. Purge soul and vortex of doom are just bad smites, so no don't take them.

 

 

I thought so at first to, but if you want to maximize smites, you have to. You really need 3 powers from Dominus - Empyric Domination, Warp Shaping and Armored resilience for paladin bomb. Etherial manipulation is only needed for specific builds and pretty meh. You don't need it if you have Draigo. Edict imperator very nice, but not a must-have. Give Voldus AR, EI and any other power you want. That is enough. You can give other characters Dominus powers too just in case, but sanctic will be more handy. Sanctuary is good as long as your opponent has AP-2, hammerhand is good as long as you are getting in close combat. Vortex may seem bad on paper but if adds pressure. If your opponent consolidates to much forces in a single point, you punish them. And with up to +4 for psychic tests you can cast it on 4+ and trigger d6 effect on 8+. I see no point in going this far but +2 is ok too and very easy to achieve. As for purge soul - it is very good at clearing low LD infantry. I always use it to deal with gaunts. Not only dreadnoughts need Astral Aim, if you play with enough terrain. Sometimes it is critical to remove some infantry from objective behind the wall. And with Big Guns never tire you can move drednought into LoS and shoot if necessary. Edict Imperator also allows it move-shoot-hide (but you need a character nearby then).

 

You won't always cast sanctic powers, but they can be always handy. And if not - just cast smite.

 

Voldus + Draigo is too much unless you are playing 2500+ points, just pick one of them. I think Voldus is better because of the extra power and cheaper cost.

 

 

Absolutely not. They are very strong beatstics and support characters. Draigo was auto-include for me for the whole last year and he was they reason I could compete.  Voldus - not so much, but absolutely yes after we've got Dominus. You can stack all important casts onto him and go full smite on other characters. He won't easily go down to snipers and with sanctuary he is almost pseudo-draigo. I'd drop draigo at 1500 or less but voldus is good for any game.

 

Paladins don't need sanctuary. Thanks to tide of shadows, they save on 4+ against AP -3 anyway, so there's not much incentive to use sanctuary on them, and your GMNDKs need it. Give them armoured resilience, put them on terrain if possible and use transhuman resilience or redoubtable defence when needed. That gives them more than enough durability.

 

 

Paladins need sanctuary, because things like melee, ignore cover, AP-4 weapons, etc exist. What you don't need is GMNDK. Just let's face the truth - after April FAQ 2018 GMNDK is trash. Not complete trash, but pretty much. His shooting is pahtetic, his melee is mediocre, unless you face Knights or somehow managed to reach oppoent's heavy vehicles. And if your opponent allowed you to do so, you could beat him with everything. He is T6 12 wounds monstrosity with giant "BRING ME DOWN ASAP" sing. And if 2+/3++ would be good protection in 8ed, Assault Terminators would be top-tier. I started to win games after I dropped GMNDKs completely from my list.

 

Finally, but most importatnly - you are not doing damage while you are in Tide of Shadows. You are just pre-PA GK, but in cover.

 

Also, you cannot use Armored Resilience on Vehicles. Transhuman Physiology is redundant in most cases and is a great CP sink. And you will never have enough CP.

 

 

One question that remains in my head though - am I insane for wanting to do this? GK were (well, still are since PA isn't technically released yet), struggling against most armies and offer what seems to be few strong builds which could get boring in a while.

 

 

PA4 finally made us playable, so you may not worry. Your games won't be one-sided anymore. Not a tier 1 army by any means, but you will never go down without a fight. They will be by no means easy to play and won't forgive mistakes. but they become really interesting now with several possible interesting builds at least for friendly and semi-competitive play.

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

Hi guys,

I usually only post in the BA section of the BnC, but that might change soon. With the upcoming PA4 and the boost it's brought to the Grey Knights, I've been pondering to start this iconic faction as my second 40k army. I have been pondering that since I first laid eyes on the Daemonhunter-Codex, to be honest. Time and money kept me from doing so, but at least one of those things isn't the main obstacle anymore. Going to try out an airbrush as well that I'm hoping to get in good used condition.

 

One question that remains in my head though - am I insane for wanting to do this? GK were (well, still are since PA isn't technically released yet), struggling against most armies and offer what seems to be few strong builds which could get boring in a while. Even with the PA power increase they will probably have a hard time against marines, guard, dark eldar and anything that kills marines easily. 40k on hardmode is real.

 

Cheers!

 

I'm quite sure they are competitive now. Not tier 1, probably (SM are on a tier of their own), but good enough that you can win a tornament if things go yout way.

 

I've played a competitve game against eldar (itc, precious cargo), the kind that hides out of LOS/deny and ignores 90% of your melee potential for most of the game, and won. The new rules make them more durable than I though they would. GMNDKs now get +1 to saves and -1 to hit, as do dreadnoughts (plus a stratagem), paladins get that plus -1 to wound, plus 2 different defensive stratagems. It used to be that GMNDKs would be blown up first turn, and the rest of the army on the second, but with the new rules, the three units were still alive after two full turns of shooting, and the last GMNDK was not killed until the 4th turn. My opponent, seeing as their weapons weren't doing great against them, tried to shoot my dreads, but it became clear that it was simply not worth it to do so. I wasn't able to do much melee or smiting really, and still almost tabled my opponent (we were both quite low on units, but most strikes and 2 dreads were still alive, and not many threats to them remained, so they were able to finish the job).

 

Seeing my army do well against a top tier army gives me great hope. Against armies that can't hide so well (or in scenarios with central objectives) they should do even better.

 

In any case, GW have shown that they have the will (if not the prowess) to somewhat balance the game, so no matter what you play, your army will be good at some point. Besides, GKs are a relatively cheap and small army, so they have that going for them. If you really like the models and how the army feels (and you want another "marine" army), I'd go for it.

 

 

Yeah, not really a tournament-player myself, but sometimes I want to build a list that goes closer to being optimized.

 

The last point, picking up another marine army to go with my marine army is still gnawing on my conscience though! :D

 

 

There's no reason to give sanctic powers to characters. Give sanctuary to GMNDKS, gate to strikes, hammerhand to paladins and astral aim to dreadnoughts and you are set. Purge soul and vortex of doom are just bad smites, so no don't take them.

 

 

I thought so at first to, but if you want to maximize smites, you have to. You really need 3 powers from Dominus - Empyric Domination, Warp Shaping and Armored resilience for paladin bomb. Etherial manipulation is only needed for specific builds and pretty meh. You don't need it if you have Draigo. Edict imperator very nice, but not a must-have. Give Voldus AR, EI and any other power you want. That is enough. You can give other characters Dominus powers too just in case, but sanctic will be more handy. Sanctuary is good as long as your opponent has AP-2, hammerhand is good as long as you are getting in close combat. Vortex may seem bad on paper but if adds pressure. If your opponent consolidates to much forces in a single point, you punish them. And with up to +4 for psychic tests you can cast it on 4+ and trigger d6 effect on 8+. I see no point in going this far but +2 is ok too and very easy to achieve. As for purge soul - it is very good at clearing low LD infantry. I always use it to deal with gaunts. Not only dreadnoughts need Astral Aim, if you play with enough terrain. Sometimes it is critical to remove some infantry from objective behind the wall. And with Big Guns never tire you can move drednought into LoS and shoot if necessary. Edict Imperator also allows it move-shoot-hide (but you need a character nearby then).

 

You won't always cast sanctic powers, but they can be always handy. And if not - just cast smite.

 

Voldus + Draigo is too much unless you are playing 2500+ points, just pick one of them. I think Voldus is better because of the extra power and cheaper cost.

 

 

Absolutely not. They are very strong beatstics and support characters. Draigo was auto-include for me for the whole last year and he was they reason I could compete.  Voldus - not so much, but absolutely yes after we've got Dominus. You can stack all important casts onto him and go full smite on other characters. He won't easily go down to snipers and with sanctuary he is almost pseudo-draigo. I'd drop draigo at 1500 or less but voldus is good for any game.

 

Paladins don't need sanctuary. Thanks to tide of shadows, they save on 4+ against AP -3 anyway, so there's not much incentive to use sanctuary on them, and your GMNDKs need it. Give them armoured resilience, put them on terrain if possible and use transhuman resilience or redoubtable defence when needed. That gives them more than enough durability.

 

 

Paladins need sanctuary, because things like melee, ignore cover, AP-4 weapons, etc exist. What you don't need is GMNDK. Just let's face the truth - after April FAQ 2018 GMNDK is trash. Not complete trash, but pretty much. His shooting is pahtetic, his melee is mediocre, unless you face Knights or somehow managed to reach oppoent's heavy vehicles. And if your opponent allowed you to do so, you could beat him with everything. He is T6 12 wounds monstrosity with giant "BRING ME DOWN ASAP" sing. And if 2+/3++ would be good protection in 8ed, Assault Terminators would be top-tier. I started to win games after I dropped GMNDKs completely from my list.

 

Finally, but most importatnly - you are not doing damage while you are in Tide of Shadows. You are just pre-PA GK, but in cover.

 

Also, you cannot use Armored Resilience on Vehicles. Transhuman Physiology is redundant in most cases and is a great CP sink. And you will never have enough CP.

 

 

One question that remains in my head though - am I insane for wanting to do this? GK were (well, still are since PA isn't technically released yet), struggling against most armies and offer what seems to be few strong builds which could get boring in a while.

 

 

PA4 finally made us playable, so you may not worry. Your games won't be one-sided anymore. Not a tier 1 army by any means, but you will never go down without a fight. They will be by no means easy to play and won't forgive mistakes. but they become really interesting now with several possible interesting builds at least for friendly and semi-competitive play.

 

Friendly and semi-competitive sounds good enough for me, really! Not too keen on tournaments.

 

Out of curiosity, you said that GMNDK aren't any good - what exactly happened after the FAQ in 2018? And are regular DK a viable option still? I was planning on building 2 with some 3d printed parts to get rid of the baby-carrier look.

 

Thanks!

[Tralador]

Mainly NDK guns are just too expensive. 19/20/24. They make good distraction carnifexes (my preferred strat is to gate the non-warlord GMDK) up in your opponents grill and go for the charge. Made the charge? Great!! Smash things. Didn’t make the charge? Great!! Your opponent spends a preponderance of firepower pressure washing a 3++. Make enough saves and you are in a good spot for turn 2.

 

But overall being a vehicle, being ‘uge, only moving 8’, and losing their old shunt/fly pack hurts their viability. Also being 175 for a base guy with a hammer seems really expensive after our other price cuts.

[Corvus Fortis]

Out of curiosity, you said that GMNDK aren't any good - what exactly happened after the FAQ in 2018?

 

 

I must admit, I've got a bit too emotional, because of my past experience with them. Sorry. They should be pretty good at friendly-semi competitive now. I see no place for basic once still. They are just not fit in 8ed. They are melee-oriented by they are not THAT good and you have invest a lot to make them reach melee where they do good, but your opponent still can easilty stop you, if he knows what to do. Go for them, if you like them, of course.

 

About FAQ2018: it resticted reserves rules greatly. Going out was restricted to turn 2, unless it is your deployment zone, and you have to have equal number of PL on table and in reserves. The following faq changes PL to points and removed turn 1 deep strike completely. Common strategy for GK before that was to bring cheap units on table and all important stuff in reserves, then drop turn 1 and hope that opponent won't kill everything. And GMNDK was priced at about 290-305 pts i think. So it was already a quarter of 2k army. And you had to have only 1000pts in reserves.

 

Now in competitive play the problem is the following - you want to go infantry heavy. So the GMNDK are the only vehicles and all enemy AV weapons will be pointed at him. With t6 2+, 3++ he can go down easily by sheer volume of fire. You also want to close distance with him and meet mid-strength, mid-AP, high RoF weapons which are perfect counter for his stats.

 

But, there are some redeeming qualities for him. He got cheaper in this PA. Tide of Shadow will protect him a bit if you manage to place him into terrain. Edict Imperator will allow you to save poinst on table and still get him to fight relatively quickly and still have gate. With Shock Assault and new stratagem which gives him +1 attack will make him very dangerous even with singe wound left.

 

GMNDK was once MVP of the army, but now just a good distraction carnifex. I won't bother with him if I go full competitive, but certainly will bring to fun games. Forget what I said about trash, really. (But standard NDKs are still trash.)

 

BTW, if you want bring several GMNDKs/NDKs and don't need to be competitive, you can try vehicle heavy lists. Bring 2-3 venerable dreadnoughts, 2-3 razorbakcs, several flyers, etc. Simply saturate the table with vehicles, so your opponent won't be able to kill everything. With tide of shadows they will recieve decent protection and they don't need other tides to operate effectively.

 

Otherwise, you can do the same things GMNDKs do with other units just better. For example, paladin bomb will eat way more damage before going down. And draigo/voldus close combat output just a bit worse, than sword-armed gmndk's (3 dmg per failed save vs 3.5 dmg per failed save, which is not important at all, if the target have 3 or less wounds), but they are cheaper, they are easier to protect, they buff other units, etc.

[angrom]

When I am doing the maths, I come to the conclusion that our main offensive trick with this new book is the 10 storm bolter buffed up firestorm for 40 2 damage ap-2 but this requests to invest quite a lot of cp. The paladin bomb looks seducing as well but is a cp sink hole to give them enough protection to survive and because of that you may have to choose between protecting your paladins and using the storm bolter combo. My conclusion is that it may be better to use 2 squad of 10 purifiers (one gated on turn one in cover close to something juicy, and the second one dropping from deep strike turn two) to use the bolter combo twice. Purifiers only need 1cp and sanctuary to have a descent survivability and 2 squads of 10 will be just a bit more expensive than 5 paladins but with more bodies and wounds, more attacks, better invu save and more storm bolts. What do you think?

[Tralador]

As far as I can tell, you want to have psilencers in any unit that you aren't absolutely going to jam into your opponents grill.  Purgation squads put out more damage than strike squads and seem quite good, but at the same time are squishy targets with higher than normal value.  Interceptors are expensive, but they give you the option to turn 1 Gate/Shunt and have 31 models within 9 inches of your opponent with rerollable charges. 

 

With 18 units and Escalation you can run out 36 smite mortal wounds a turn.  One issue that we are going to have is casting the minimum non-smite powers.  Voldus, Librarians, and GMDK's do this quite well.

 

Throw on some storm bolter and psilencer pressure and play the T1) Shadow -> Escalation T2) Escalation-> Shadow/Convergence T)3 Escalation route.

 

So, in review:

1 Voldus

1-2 Brother Captain

3x10 Interceptors

3x5 Purgators w/Psilencers (I am on the fence on these guys, they do extra damage, but are squishy targets with high value, play testing required)

6x5 Strike Squad with Psilencer

 

0-1 Phat Paladin Squad

0-2 GMDK (1x Dominus Per turn + Smite)

0-1 Librarian (1x Dominus Per turn + Smite)

0-1 Chaplain

 

Other stuff for flavor

 

Strikes + Voldus + Interceptors + Brother Captain form your 14 Smite Firebase.

 

I am actively looking for other people's thoughts and have actually gone from the Psycannons are GREEAT mindset to the well psilencers are better, stupid math, but convergence is great!!? to the well mindbullets to the bank plan.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Tralador

[Corvus Fortis]

The paladin bomb looks seducing as well but is a cp sink hole to give them enough protection to survive and because of that you may have to choose between protecting your paladins and using the storm bolter combo. My conclusion is that it may be better to use 2 squad of 10 purifiers (one gated on turn one in cover close to something juicy, and the second one dropping from deep strike turn two) to use the bolter combo twice.

 

 

The point of paladin bomb is not to deliver psybolt combo, but to protect characters, that will throw smites and then tie opponents in combat by turn 4-5. They are also better platmform for heavy weapons, because they can eat up to 20 wounds before losing a heavy weapon. They are way easier to put where they are needed.

 

And purifiers are not that cheaper CP-wise. You need to spend 1 to put a unit to reserves, then 1 to give it 4++. The only stratagem that paladins really need is redoubtable defence. THP is only needed against stuff like plasma spam, close combat knights or +1 to-wound stack.  Sometimes you can even go without both. Or you can go 2x5 squads way to conserve CP, but then you'll probably want an additional layer of strikes between paladins and characters just in case. Also Purifiers cannot use Dynamic Insertion. They also cannot smite the turn they are set up on the battlefield. But they will indeed fair better against high AP, high damage weapons. But AP 0 weapons will just deny them any bonus.

 

I agree, that purifiers my end up better if you are going for pure characters smite bomb, if you are tailoring, but Paladins are better generalist choice because they are better against low AP weapons and okay against high damage. They also synergise better with apothecary and invest more in smite spam. Better platform for heavy weapons as well.

 

If you want full effinecy from psybolt storm, just take interceptors or strikes.

 

Also note, that you can shoot 40 6 -1 2 twice per turn thanks to edict imperator. Psychic and shooting are different phases, so you can use PBA at each of them.

 

 

With 18 units and Escalation you can run out 36 smite mortal wounds a turn.

 

 

But how many will be in range at the same time? Same with heavy weapons. Also, PA squads will go down pretty quickly even when massed. They are just T4 1 W 3+ guys. This could be nice alpha-stike, but if you won't criple your opponent, you will go down pretty quickly.

 

That's why character bomb looks appealing to me. You will cast 5-6 smites, but you will cast them consistently through 3-4 turns. Which is why Psybolt is essential too - to remove key targets.

[ChaoticEric]

https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goat-an-interview-with-lvo-and-itc-champion-richard-siegler/

 

If Richard Siegler is contemplating to experimenting with GK due to the PA-rules there must be something to those new rules? It'll be interesting to see what kind of lists he experiments with, especially if you're into the competitive side of things.

Edited January 30, 2020 by ChaoticEric

[Biscuittzz]

Winters SEO had a recent battle report up. TTT have been putting some up as well. 

 

Take aways seem to be:

 

Librarian - most likely auto include, buffed and trinketed up to use as the CP regeneration and the Tide changer at the end of the phase.

 

BroCap - Practically auto include. The boost from the double smite range while in ToE is insane.

 

Interceptors/GMNDKs - full turn 1 alpha strike and in your opponents face.

 

Paladins/Terminators - look very survivable now with the strats and powers. Fulfilling their hammer role

 

I have two SR gunships myself that I'm wondering will do with the new rules. I like them more than GMNDKs as I think now they may be harder to kill and can bring the firepower we desperately need.

[ChaoticEric]

Winters SEO had a recent battle report up. TTT have been putting some up as well. 

 

Take aways seem to be:

 

Librarian - most likely auto include, buffed and trinketed up to use as the CP regeneration and the Tide changer at the end of the phase.

 

BroCap - Practically auto include. The boost from the double smite range while in ToE is insane.

 

Interceptors/GMNDKs - full turn 1 alpha strike and in your opponents face.

 

Paladins/Terminators - look very survivable now with the strats and powers. Fulfilling their hammer role

 

I have two SR gunships myself that I'm wondering will do with the new rules. I like them more than GMNDKs as I think now they may be harder to kill and can bring the firepower we desperately need.

 

Librarians, terminators and dreadknights? If we could only cram some purifiers in a borrowed drop pod in there it'd feel like 7th all over again :)

[angrom]

I feel that dreadknights dont really fit in our lists anymore. They offer juicy targets for anti tank weapons while the rest of our army is mostly infantry (so your opponent don t have a tough choice to make).

I still feel that purifiers are the underestimated part of our codex. 3++ with sanctuary and 2++ invu in combat with staffs

[Corvus Fortis]

Purifiers have several problems, unfortunately, but I'd give them a chance.

 

The main problem that we have to solve every game is how to distribute litanies, psychic powers and CPs. There are a lot of choices and possible combinations. You can say, that bolters is the best choice in vacuum, but what will you do, when you run out of CP? When snipers will take down your chaplain? When all paladins/purifiers/purgetors are killed?

 

That's why self-sustaining units will win over sophisticated combination. Yes, 4 psycannons on purgation squads with Gate of Infinity, ignore modifiers litany, etherial manipulation and psychic onslaught may deal more damage than 40 bolters for less points, but just count buffs you have to stack for this. And you can fail something importnant even with rerolls. There are denies, there are factions that turn off strategems. You have to consider all of this, when chosing what is best for you.

[Tralador]

That’s why escalation, brocaptain, and smite > all. 30-40 mortal wounds to what you can see, maneuver right, and use guns and assault just to clean up. Played my first game yesterday.

Turn 1, smites obliterated his screen. I got too aggressive and lost a couple of squads.

Turn 2, smites obliterated a Leviathan and charge killed some characters.

Turn 3-5 mostly cleaning up.

Main takeaways: 2 damage smite is soo stronk, but we are still power armored 4T guys, get cocky or maneuver wrong and you will get wrecked, finally our guns are not going to do most of our heavy lifting even if we throw CP at it. Keeping duders alive and smiting what you can see while denying their points and scoring yours is the way.

One purgator squad with a chaplain and astral aim is helpful though.

[Captain Antargo]

These new rules are insane, finally the Grey Knights are a competitive army, how do you feel?

 

Here are the rules in case you haven't heard or whatever else...WOW!!!

[Corvus Fortis]

Eh, well, you really should check several previous pages.There is a lot of interesting thoughts there.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Corvus Fortis