TorvaldTheMild Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I think the next Primarch to return will be Russ or possibly Sanguinius (if GW are going to ruin the lore).The Dark Angels release is next, but the big four are normally the ones to get new stuff, seeing that its been RG, IF, and Salamanders getting new stuff, maybe the SW's and BA's are going to be last because a Primarch is a coming. Of course GW could just be giving the other chapters some love which is well over due and they seem to be pushing Codex compliant SM's but they have never done this before, so it makes me wonder, because I think timing wise a loyalist Primarch come sometime next year. But then again SW's and BA's release might come after the DA's one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Shift Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I think it might be Johnson. People talk about there being a big confrontation with guilliman but he did run the show after the heresy and I don't know why it would be a big shock to find him running things again now. It feels like a melee focused, combat monster primarch is needed for the loyalists and Russ I think was fairly broken at the end if the heresy, his legion spent (and I think they are in a bad way currently as well) and his role as the emperor's executioner abandoned. Johnson seems a more natural fit for a traitor hating, ruthless anti chaos monster who could lead his own personal crusade with a legion sized dark angels force to re conquer the galaxy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorvaldTheMild Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 I think it might be Johnson. People talk about there being a big confrontation with guilliman but he did run the show after the heresy and I don't know why it would be a big shock to find him running things again now. It feels like a melee focused, combat monster primarch is needed for the loyalists and Russ I think was fairly broken at the end if the heresy, his legion spent (and I think they are in a bad way currently as well) and his role as the emperor's executioner abandoned. Johnson seems a more natural fit for a traitor hating, ruthless anti chaos monster who could lead his own personal crusade with a legion sized dark angels force to re conquer the galaxy. It would be because of Imperium Secundus, the Lion was completely against that and thought it was a terrible idea. He only agreed because Sanguinius was to be the figure head, so I think if he comes back he will be quite pissed, seeing that Guilliman has always desired power. The Lion was far more broken, he wanted a fight to the death with Russ, thinking that there was nothing left in life to do anymore. Russ wasn't broken at all in comparison, he was actually quite stoic. I don't know where you are getting that, I think you are mixing him up with Bjorn after Russ left. Most of the legions strength was spent, but I don't see how that is relevant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Shift Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I think it might be Johnson. People talk about there being a big confrontation with guilliman but he did run the show after the heresy and I don't know why it would be a big shock to find him running things again now. It feels like a melee focused, combat monster primarch is needed for the loyalists and Russ I think was fairly broken at the end if the heresy, his legion spent (and I think they are in a bad way currently as well) and his role as the emperor's executioner abandoned. Johnson seems a more natural fit for a traitor hating, ruthless anti chaos monster who could lead his own personal crusade with a legion sized dark angels force to re conquer the galaxy. It would be because of Imperium Secundus, the Lion was completely against that and thought it was a terrible idea. He only agreed because Sanguinius was to be the figure head, so I think if he comes back he will be quite pissed, seeing that Guilliman has always desired power. The Lion was far more broken, he wanted a fight to the death with Russ, thinking that there was nothing left in life to do anymore. Russ wasn't broken at all in comparison, he was actually quite stoic. I don't know where you are getting that, I think you are mixing him up with Bjorn after Russ left. Most of the legions strength was spent, but I don't see how that is relevant. IIRC the events of wolfsbane left Russ a changed man. He basically risked all on a gambit to kill horus and not only didn't succeed but also had a chance and didn't take it. After that he just isn't the same and is implied his boisterous nature is challenged and I think that's where the Odin Russ stuff comes from. If he returns it will be as a wiser leader not an executioner and guilliman is already covering a lot of those bases. Actually a resurrected sanguinious could fill a similar role to Johnson. So could the Khan or my personal favourite an angry Templar Dorn but I don't think it will be a primarchs from outside of the big four. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFingers Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 The Dark Angels release is next You say that with such certainty. How do you know that? And if rumours for, and related to, Psychic Awakening are to be believed, Russ is the most likely for the moment. The Lion is the other prime candidate, but his setup in the lore has been all about the Fallen, so unless those start mobilizing and Luther shows his face, I'd say he's not in the cards. Then there's Vulkan, Khan, Corax, and a mild retcon away, Dorn. I'd say the fact that He'stan did not get updated/primarised indicates plans for his eventual return, but that time isn't here yet. For Corax, last we heard of him he's hunting down Traitor Primarchs, and specially Lorgar, so maybe as more of them show up, he will follow. Khan's the big mystery, he's just in the Webway, lost somewhere as far as we know. No artefacts to hunt down, no prophecies, no "back at the darkest hour" stuff, no hints towards him in the lore, he's just... missing. As for Dorn, there's a possibility that he might return if they just nudge the previous retcon of his death a bit further, but just like Khan, there are no hints towards him or anything that indicates his return. And then there's Sanguinius, the poor bloody hawk. They might try to pull something in the future, like the Sanguinor almost dying but being saved by Sanguinius' soul fusing with him, or falling to the Black Rage and claiming "I AM SANGUINIUS!", as a grim and vengeful reflection of the Primarch. But I don't think that'll happen, at least for the moment. So yeah, as far as recent things go, Russ is the name the voices whisper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorvaldTheMild Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 I think it might be Johnson. People talk about there being a big confrontation with guilliman but he did run the show after the heresy and I don't know why it would be a big shock to find him running things again now. It feels like a melee focused, combat monster primarch is needed for the loyalists and Russ I think was fairly broken at the end if the heresy, his legion spent (and I think they are in a bad way currently as well) and his role as the emperor's executioner abandoned. Johnson seems a more natural fit for a traitor hating, ruthless anti chaos monster who could lead his own personal crusade with a legion sized dark angels force to re conquer the galaxy. It would be because of Imperium Secundus, the Lion was completely against that and thought it was a terrible idea. He only agreed because Sanguinius was to be the figure head, so I think if he comes back he will be quite pissed, seeing that Guilliman has always desired power. The Lion was far more broken, he wanted a fight to the death with Russ, thinking that there was nothing left in life to do anymore. Russ wasn't broken at all in comparison, he was actually quite stoic. I don't know where you are getting that, I think you are mixing him up with Bjorn after Russ left. Most of the legions strength was spent, but I don't see how that is relevant. IIRC the events of wolfsbane left Russ a changed man. He basically risked all on a gambit to kill horus and not only didn't succeed but also had a chance and didn't take it. After that he just isn't the same and is implied his boisterous nature is challenged and I think that's where the Odin Russ stuff comes from. If he returns it will be as a wiser leader not an executioner and guilliman is already covering a lot of those bases. Actually a resurrected sanguinious could fill a similar role to Johnson. So could the Khan or my personal favourite an angry Templar Dorn but I don't think it will be a primarchs from outside of the big four. That was a. before the end of the Heresy and b. it didn't leave him defeated, he left Terra to take on Horus again, the Khan asked him to return to Terra with him, but Russ said no and that he was going after Horus again and he didn't look his boisterousness etc. In War in Heaven he is the same he's always been, laughing and joking with the Khan even though he was angered with him for not saving him when he was fighting the Alpha Legion. He's more serious etc. but all the Primarchs were when they found out about the Heresy. I think that sounds like head cannon. I aslo don't remember him relinquishing the executioner mantle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
point_Zer0 Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 The ones who will have no problem returning lorewise are Russ, Jaghatai, Lion, Corax Maybe some problems - Dorn, Vulkan and Omegon Who can't possibly return are Sanguinius and Ferrus Traitor primarchs do not have any problems returning. Like at all. Apart from maybe Curze (at some moment in the past he was 100% dead, now, in all the wikis and other sources his death is described as ( However, the kill was never confirmed, as the video feed cut out right before the fight ensued.) I, personally, would really like to see Jaghatai or Lion. The 1st one i really like and the 2nd one can bring A LOT of interesting stuff to the lore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorvaldTheMild Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 The ones who will have no problem returning lorewise are Russ, Jaghatai, Lion, Corax Maybe some problems - Dorn, Vulkan and Omegon Who can't possibly return are Sanguinius and Ferrus Traitor primarchs do not have any problems returning. Like at all. Apart from maybe Curze (at some moment in the past he was 100% dead, now, in all the wikis and other sources his death is described as ( However, the kill was never confirmed, as the video feed cut out right before the fight ensued.) I, personally, would really like to see Jaghatai or Lion. The 1st one i really like and the 2nd one can bring A LOT of interesting stuff to the lore. Knowing GW Sanguinius will come back as slimer from ghostbusters and Ferrus will be the headless horseman. They want that MONEY!!! Cruze can easily come back, his soul was never destroyed so he can come back as a daemon prince or possessed like Torgaddon. Its completely fluffy, Horus might come back as a clone that possible. Alpharius can easily come back because you could just say 'that wasn't actually Alpharius' lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klod Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 If there is anything that can make me stop collecting Blood Angels it's revivng Sanguinius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394419 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorvaldTheMild Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 If there is anything that can make me stop collecting Blood Angels it's revivng Sanguinius. Yeah it would ruin so much of their lore, also with the black rage what would happen with that if Sanguinius came back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394421 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawhis Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 The Iron Hands possess the Secret of True Cybernetic Resurrection, locked away with the Keys of Hel, which could potentially be used on Ferrus one day Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Russ or Lion are definitely the most likely loyalists to return. As for Traitor, I can see Fulgrim and Angron showing up soon-ish. The ones who will have no problem returning lorewise are Russ, Jaghatai, Lion, Corax Maybe some problems - Dorn, Vulkan and Omegon Who can't possibly return are Sanguinius and Ferrus Traitor primarchs do not have any problems returning. Like at all. Apart from maybe Curze (at some moment in the past he was 100% dead, now, in all the wikis and other sources his death is described as (However, the kill was never confirmed, as the video feed cut out right before the fight ensued.) I, personally, would really like to see Jaghatai or Lion. The 1st one i really like and the 2nd one can bring A LOT of interesting stuff to the lore. ADB's omnibus has First Claw see the feed and flat-out mentions seeing M'shen holding Curze's decapitated head. So, he dead. If there is anything that can make me stop collecting Blood Angels it's revivng Sanguinius.Mate, I don't even PLAY Blood Angels and I think that's a bad idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Just for reference, see this topic from a year ago. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Im going to put my bet on Corax being the next primarch to return, he's the only loyalist Primarch that has had their post-disappearance lore developed and now that the Word Bearers are marching with Lorgar it seems very plausible that Corax might also follow him out of the Eye of Terror, he was also mentioned in the Apocalypse novel as being a legend the WBs tell to spook each other. Plus he was also mentioned in Njal's vision when he peered into the warp to look for Russ only finding visions that can be attributed to Corax, the Lion and the Khan with the 4 traitor Primarchs plus Lorgar also being hinted at and it all ties neatly with GW recent poster with a picture of Corax with "Have you seen this Primarch?" in Shrike's teaser which is a similar hint to the studio finding Magnus in the garbage bin before he was released. If the second Psychic Awakening book has Sisters of Battle and Black Templars then it might also feature Word Bearers as they are attacking Shrine Worlds which the two Imperium forces are defending and Word Bearers might bring Lorgar or Corax into the fold. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFingers Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Im going to put my bet on Corax being the next primarch to return, he's the only loyalist Primarch that has had their post-disappearance lore developed and now that the Word Bearers are marching with Lorgar it seems very plausible that Corax might also follow him out of the Eye of Terror, he was also mentioned in the Apocalypse novel as being a legend the WBs tell to spook each other. Plus he was also mentioned in Njal's vision when he peered into the warp to look for Russ only finding visions that can be attributed to Corax, the Lion and the Khan with the 4 traitor Primarchs plus Lorgar also being hinted at and it all ties neatly with GW recent poster with a picture of Corax with "Have you seen this Primarch?" in Shrike's teaser which is a similar hint to the studio finding Magnus in the garbage bin before he was released. If the second Psychic Awakening book has Sisters of Battle and Black Templars then it might also feature Word Bearers as they are attacking Shrine Worlds which the two Imperium forces are defending and Word Bearers might bring Lorgar or Corax into the fold. See, while I'd love to see Daemon Lorgar, I doubt he'll see the light of day before Angron and Fulgrim do. Just a hunch, could be wrong. In fact I was horribly wrong about Abaddon not coming before the other Traitor Primarchs so they don't overshadow him as the big bad of Chaos, so who knows. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394506 Share on other sites More sharing options...
templargdt Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 The Lion is already gone from his hidden chamber on The Rock, so he's out there somewhere already. I've always assumed he would be the next to return after Guilliman. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 I’d love to see the Lion or Sanguinius come back. Next would be Dorn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 When did the lore ever say that Dorn was dead? It always stated he was on a ship that exploded and all they found was his hand, so it was implied he was dead, but never said he was dead. So what retcons are you talking about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 When did the lore ever say that Dorn was dead? It always stated he was on a ship that exploded and all they found was his hand, so it was implied he was dead, but never said he was dead. So what retcons are you talking about. The original fluff for Dorn was the Imperial Fists had his entire skeleton aboard the Phalanx. Then it was retconned to both his hands, then just one hand. And the Primarchs novel Konrad Curze: The Night Haunter, has Curze mention during his monologue to his sculpture of the Emperor that upon seeing Ferrus, Dorn and Sanguinius, he saw "Ferrus beheaded, Sanguinius butchered and Dorn torn apart" (might have gotten the description's off, but I distinctly recalling it saying Dorn was torn apart). Now, since Curze is well-past insane by the point where he's doing this monologue, we have to take it with a grain of salt. However, his visions are often the worst possible outcome, but the fact that he foresaw all three of those specific Primarchs' deaths, and two of them are confirmed KIA.... The Lion is already gone from his hidden chamber on The Rock, so he's out there somewhere already. I've always assumed he would be the next to return after Guilliman. Uhhh.... that's Luther. Lion is still snoozing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Valrak Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Dorn. Lives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadFingers Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 The original fluff for Dorn was the Imperial Fists had his entire skeleton aboard the Phalanx. Then it was retconned to both his hands, then just one hand. And the Primarchs novel Konrad Curze: The Night Haunter, has Curze mention during his monologue to his sculpture of the Emperor that upon seeing Ferrus, Dorn and Sanguinius, he saw "Ferrus beheaded, Sanguinius butchered and Dorn torn apart" (might have gotten the description's off, but I distinctly recalling it saying Dorn was torn apart). Now, since Curze is well-past insane by the point where he's doing this monologue, we have to take it with a grain of salt. However, his visions are often the worst possible outcome, but the fact that he foresaw all three of those specific Primarchs' deaths, and two of them are confirmed KIA.... I think Curze's thing is not that his visions were always the worst possible outcome, but that he saw multiple outcomes and always believed the worst as the true one because that's just the kind of person he was. But anyway, that's what I meant about Dorn. If they ever want to make him return, they just need to nudge the retcon a bit further, make up an excuse for where he's been all this time, and boom, Dorn on the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 The bit of lore of the Imperial Fists only finding Dorn's hand goes back to 3rd ed Index Astartes, not sure when they wrote that the IF had the whole skeleton but I believe they have gone back to the original lore of Dorn only having his hand left which may or may not be a hint that he isnt dead but missing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 Without getting too off-topic, Curze's fluff was always that he saw "only the worst futures", not that he only believed those ones. His Primarchs book has since changed that to being that when he was a child he saw multiple, but gravitated towards believing the worst, and as time went on he stopped seeing the positive ones entirely, only ever having the "bad" visions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Shift Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 The bit of lore of the Imperial Fists only finding Dorn's hand goes back to 3rd ed Index Astartes, not sure when they wrote that the IF had the whole skeleton but I believe they have gone back to the original lore of Dorn only having his hand left which may or may not be a hint that he isnt dead but missing. The whole skeleton fluff goes way back to the novel space marine. A book that whilst a great read, also includes zoats (no bad thing!) and space marines successfully piloting a titan after eating the crew's brains. For a long time it was the only fluff really available on the IF until Pete Haines IA article essentially took the best bits and brought the fluff in line for 3rd edition. During which Dorn is still believed to be dead but all they recovered was his hand. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
templargdt Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 When did the lore ever say that Dorn was dead? It always stated he was on a ship that exploded and all they found was his hand, so it was implied he was dead, but never said he was dead. So what retcons are you talking about. The original fluff for Dorn was the Imperial Fists had his entire skeleton aboard the Phalanx. Then it was retconned to both his hands, then just one hand. And the Primarchs novel Konrad Curze: The Night Haunter, has Curze mention during his monologue to his sculpture of the Emperor that upon seeing Ferrus, Dorn and Sanguinius, he saw "Ferrus beheaded, Sanguinius butchered and Dorn torn apart" (might have gotten the description's off, but I distinctly recalling it saying Dorn was torn apart). Now, since Curze is well-past insane by the point where he's doing this monologue, we have to take it with a grain of salt. However, his visions are often the worst possible outcome, but the fact that he foresaw all three of those specific Primarchs' deaths, and two of them are confirmed KIA.... The Lion is already gone from his hidden chamber on The Rock, so he's out there somewhere already. I've always assumed he would be the next to return after Guilliman. Uhhh.... that's Luther. Lion is still snoozing. I could have sworn I read Lion was gone as well. I'll have to go check. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/#findComment-5394591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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