Next Primarch to return

[Robbienw]

Is there any evidence of Space Wolf successor chapters?  There has only been one mentioned, the Wolfspear chapter, in Dark Imperium.  And that was a brief throwaway mention at the end of the book, and they haven't been mentioned since in any fluff.  There's been no mention of any other SW successors.  The SW codex says nothing on the topic.

[Karhedron]

Is there any evidence of Space Wolf successor chapters?  There has only been one mentioned, the Wolfspear chapter, in Dark Imperium.  And that was a brief throwaway mention at the end of the book, and they haven't been mentioned since in any fluff.  There's been no mention of any other SW successors.  The SW codex says nothing on the topic.

Not as far as I am aware. People have inferred that since the Wolfspear are a thing, there must logically be other Chapters based on the SW geneseed that were established during the Indomitus Crusade. This seems reasonable on paper but is only speculation.

[Jarl Caldersson]

Is there any evidence of Space Wolf successor chapters? There has only been one mentioned, the Wolfspear chapter, in Dark Imperium. And that was a brief throwaway mention at the end of the book, and they haven't been mentioned since in any fluff. There's been no mention of any other SW successors. The SW codex says nothing on the topic.

I'd have to redownload the book but I thought that only a small portion of SW primaris went to Fenris. Bjarni went to Wolf Spear and the rest spread throughout other chapters. None named directly, just hinting they were there.

 

Which is good imo, allows people to make their own chapters and chapte masters, without being forced to make one of 12 companies with very distinct personas.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Jarl Caldersson

[Boldthreat]

I would be excited for either Russ or the Lion. I think both would have a lot on their plate to address in the current setting. And while I don’t believe they would overtly work against Guilliman, I do believe they would be a irritating source of discontent for him. The establishment of a Space Marine empire and the soft rebuilding of the 13th Legion cannot go unchallenged. Regardless of how honest Guillimans intentions are.

 

Moreover I do believe Guilliman needs a foil. A true foil. One who represents what the Imperium is, vs what it was supposed to be originally. Someone who embraces the lies, the secrets, and the outright brutal nature of the traditional 40k setting. We need a primarch that’s a religious zealot and who is stubborn in the face of reason and logic and “hope” but matches Guillimans acumen as a capable head of a interstellar Empire. I don’t believe that is the Lion or Russ. I think a Emperor worshiping Dorn who embraces the traditional Imperium would be perfect, and fitting.

[emperorpants]

 

Anyway, I can totally see Gman doing the political and management side of the Imperium while the Lion takes care of the military side of things.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Iron Father Ferrum
Removed quoted, hidden content.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

=][= Enough with the excessive arguing. People interpret texts differently, let it go or take it to PMs. =][=

[Cyrox]

I can see it being the Lion who comes back, especially as he is 'sleeping' in the centre of the Rock and the galaxy is about to have a Pyschic Awakening. I'm of course not saying the 'awakening' is in ref to the Lion, but the DA story has been advanced with the disappearance of Luther, and there's part of me thinks that the recent WD Index Astartes for Dark Angels is for folk who haven't read the War Zone Fenris campaign books to catch up on the lore.

 

I can see the Lion being the one to Marshall the Imperium on one side of the Great rift while Guilliman takes care of things on the other.

 

If not the Lion, then some brief thoughts on the others:

Dorn - could come back and would be a big seller, maybe with some sort of literal symbol like a crazy power fist to replace his lost hand, and could coincide with Black Templars?

 

Khan - What with all the Eldar goings on, its certainly plausible as his suspected whereabouts is the Webway

 

Corax -  Could be, but there's been no overt signs other than the 'have you seen this primarch' pic in the GW vid. 

 

Russ - Said he would return for 'The final battle....for the Wolftime'.  The way things are, it could certainly qualify. Plus the Wulfen made it back. Just please GW, no Wulfen Russ

 

Vulkan - Again, could be, but I'd like to read the upcoming Codex Supplement to be honest, i'd say he is less likely than Khan, on par with Corax.

 

Sanguinius - Can't see it and really hope not, his tragedy is a cornerstone of Blood Angels lore, would be a community splitting move IMO.

 

Ferrus - Would be a hard swallow seeing as he was decapitated by Fulgrim, but knowing the Iron Hands and GW i'm sure they could plot stretch it somehow. Again would be a stretch, just how supernatural are Primarch's - could his soul survive that long?

 

Just my 2p worth, I dunno. 

 

As I say, I hope its the Lion, and if not then Russ, because I've always loved the line 'For the Wolftime'

Edited September 24, 2019 by Cyrox

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

If there is anything that can make me stop collecting Blood Angels it's revivng Sanguinius.

Yeah it would ruin so much of their lore, also with the black rage what would happen with that if Sanguinius came back.

Returning from the dead doesn't erase the fact that he died.

 

The Black Rage is specifically seeing visions of Sanguinius' final battle with Horus. The afflicted brother loses his sense of self and believes that he IS Sanguinius.

 

Sanguinius returning wouldn't change that.

[emperorpants]

I just have a feeling that if the Lion returns he won't really have that big of a beef with Gman.  Afterall, all things considered, Gman did about as well as can be expected so far, even for a primarch.  

 

As long as Gman respects him and gives him a position of power, such as grand warlord of the imperium or something, and Gman doesn't mess with his chapter, I feel the Lion will be satisfied.  He would likely want nothing to do with the political nonsense of the Imperium, and would be happy to leave that to Big Papa blueberry.  

 

A bigger issue, imo, will be when Russ and the Lion are both back...who will be war master?  I could see some conflict arising from that.

Edited September 24, 2019 by emperorpants

[crazyterran]

I want the Khan back just because I want to see what GW would do with a Primarch riding a jetbike, model wise. 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The ghost of Ferrus prophesied his return. It's old lore, but it hasn't been retconned yet so it should still be in play.

 

That being said, how would we return? Fabius' clones don't really fit the "I'll come back when needed" narrative; as awesome as LOTD Ferrus is, it doesn't involve returning to lead his sons; the Keys of Hel is being brought back after than returning so to also is suspect.

 

If anyone can provide a convincing argument for any of these, I'm all ears. Otherwise it's a case of spontaneous resurrection.

[crazyterran]

He jumps out of the Iron Father's closet after finally figuring out how the space latch worked. 

[CCE1981]

From Ashes of Prospero I think Russ is four Primarchs out if I remember right. It’s been some time since I read it, and it was a psychic dream from their head Rune Priest.

[DeadFingers]

From Ashes of Prospero I think Russ is four Primarchs out if I remember right. It’s been some time since I read it, and it was a psychic dream from their head Rune Priest.

I haven't read that book, but from what I've heard, Njal finds nothing about Russ but is drawn to Prospero, where he finds some survivors of the 13th Company lost in the Warp Gate network, and Magnus has a plan so use said network so Daemons can manifest in realspace without rituals or something like that.

 

So with that in mind, and Prospero/Sortiarius being the location for the fourth Psychic Awakening campaign, wouldn't that hint towards Russ more so than any other Primarch?

Edited September 25, 2019 by DeadFingers

[Mandragola]

The trouble with trying to read the runes in fluff books is that I doubt GW themselves would feel bound by any of this. I think they'll bring out whatever Primarch makes sense at the time, or not, rather than going through black library books to find out what they should be doing.

[phoenix01]

The ghost of Ferrus prophesied his return. It's old lore, but it hasn't been retconned yet so it should still be in play.

 

That being said, how would we return? Fabius' clones don't really fit the "I'll come back when needed" narrative; as awesome as LOTD Ferrus is, it doesn't involve returning to lead his sons; the Keys of Hel is being brought back after than returning so to also is suspect.

 

If anyone can provide a convincing argument for any of these, I'm all ears. Otherwise it's a case of spontaneous resurrection.

The Sigillite tried to move the Perfection to safety - represented by an immaculate-looking diamond - but Revelation played 'Ambition' and a tiny but ugly flaw appeared in the depth of the gem.

'You always cheat,' said the Regent. 'You control the cards and I do not.'

'Do I?' Revelation did not seem amused. 'Or does it simply seem that I do?'

'They are attuned to you and you alone.' said Malcador. 'Who else would make them change?'

'Perhaps it is because you only see them that way. It could be your interpretation that is repetitive. Or maybe the game is rigged against you, as you claim. If that were the case, why do you insist in playing me?'

'Because you have never yet shown me the final play. You always end the game before a victor has been decided.' Malcador cleared his throat. 'We have run out of time. If you have a plan, it is now that you must reveal it.'

'What if I told you that I did not know how to win?'

'You are more powerful than Horus, even now.'

'That is not what I said. Sometimes I play the game as Warmaster and you are the Emperor. It does not change the game.'

Frustrated, Malcador snatched up the Perfection and used it to sweep aside the Iron General. The opposing piece tumbled, the head crowned with sunbeams rolling across the board.

'​Clumsy,' said Revelation. He picked up the two transmorphic pieces and set them back in the wooden box beside the board. 'Perhaps I will fix that later when I have some time.'

 

The previous scene from Gav Thorpe's The Board is Set is one that shows Malcador's growing frustration. He wants to know the Emperor's plan, but the Emperor hints that there is no plan and he has no real control. Malcador's insistance that Revelation has control of the situation indicates that he is falling into the same heresy of Lorgar and the cult Divinitatus; by such insistance, Malcador is hinting that Revelation is god-like, which is the reason for the Emperor's lack of amusement. The end of the scene can easily be dismissed as simply Malcador's reaction to Revelation's "non-"revelation and the Emperor's response, but as was recently pointed out to me could be one of the more important parts of the story. The Perfection is Fulgrim, who had a brief chance to stay loyal, but whose ambition as caused by the Emperor (who played the card) caused the real flaw. The Iron General crowned with sunbeams is Ferrus Manus. Malcador breaks the Iron General when he smacks it with the Perfection, just as Ferrus is killed by Fulgrim at Istvaan V. Note that in both cases, the head is removed from the body. Revelation comments, "Clumsy," then puts both pieces away before commenting that he might fix it later when he has the time. What was clumsy? Malcador's breaking of the Iron General? Or something else, such as Revelation letting Ferrus get into that situation which killed him? And Revelation's comment about perhaps he would fix that later when he has some time? I believe that this reveals that the Emperor can fix his broken toys if he so chooses. And 10,000 years of sitting on the Golden Throne may be enough "later." So does that mean Ferrus is up next to return? Not necessarily, but it does hint that Ferrus could return at some point.

[Charlo]

I almost hope it's none of them.

 

Guilliman has returned and it's obvious he's struggling. This is perfect in the themes of 40k. If any of his brothers return they'd almost have to fabricate some animosity to make it believable and I for one don't really want thag.

 

However if any of them DO come back I think it'd be best to give them the exaggerated 40k treatment. Russ should be a Wolfman because of over exposure to the warp and the Canis helix. Sanguinor becomes a greater daemon of Sanguinius. Corax is little more than a being of pure shadow and vengeance both in form and demeanor.

 

Almost similar to how the ruinous powers have shaped the traitor Primarch's, I'd love to see what 10,000 years of time has done to the loyalists.

 

Before anyone says G man hasn't changed, he's literally on life support and has had his world view shattered.

[Boldthreat]

Oh I agree Charlo, completely. These guys should be physically and emotionally changed following 10000 years of whatever they have been up to. I would love to discover the Lions opinions post his sleep and the war with the fallen. Id love to see a old man Russ struggle with the werewolf stuff whilst trying to set things right in the Imperium. If Dorn comes back, I don’t want to see the same guy from the HH. I want to see someone who was dramatically changed. That’s why I’m fascinated as him being the loyal Lorgar type character. What if he was guiding all the atrocities by the inquisition the whole time? What if he was guiding the rise of the Imperial church? Because Dorn was the most loyal son... how do you insure your Fathers domain stays together? Make him a God and his worship mandatory. Now that would be explosive. Regardless if he believed it or not!

[MajorNese]

To be honest, the most realistic and interesting one would be the Lion.

 

It's been hinted again and again that he's sleeping next door, not lost somewhere in the warp/webway/decapitated/otherwise killed. Just like "The death and return of Superman" - death becomes meaningless when those guys just come back from the dead with barely 2 lines of explanation. Reviving Ferrus or Sanguinius would definitely invalidate the whole point their deaths made in the heresy.

 

The whole background of Imperium Secundus and his interactions with Bobby could be an interesting base for future interactions, and his usually secretive agenda could be interesting to explore while Bobby is busy restoring his old domain, both being not entirely incorrect when criticizing the other, but they did manage to work together in the past.

 

And at least the Lion would be less of a Mary Sue when it comes to the imperium at large - Bobby's reforms magically improve everything and begin fixing what's been wrong with the imperium the whole time, which sounds like Tau but for mankind - too "good" for such a grimdark, dystopic future. The Lion would just go around killing the stuff he thinks needs to be killed, but probably gives the middle finger to everyone asking him to fix the overall imperium.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Phoenix, for that playing piece to be fixed by Big E...he first has to wake up or be reincarnated or some such. I suppose he could divinely inspire someone - Cawl is the painful but obvious choice - to remake Ferrus, but given the time, effort, and warpcraft that goes into creating a Primarch that seems like a bit of a cop-out. So far the only other person to get it done is Fabius and his copies are imperfect.

[CJL]

i do to think it will be Russ with one of the locations being Prospero/Sortiarius. it would make the most sense. I think the below rumour image is part of Russ' hair in my opinion seen as though it wasnt jain zar as everyone thought, might be wishful thinking 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by CJL

[DeadFingers]

I'd just like to point out that to this day, no Primarch has been teased in the Rumour Engine. No big, important, established characters either like Calgar and Jain Zar either, with Cypher being the notable exception. Not even Abaddon was teased, despite the daily Rumour Daemon Engines. Hasn't happened in AoS either, even with Morathi making a comeback with two models.

 

It's not necessarily a pattern, a single Rumour Engine could break it, but still pretty noteworthy, I think.

[Subtleknife]

Screw the primarchs I want Big E back. He can then go crusading and find the lost primarchs.

 

Also, this whole Lion and Gman thing I think is way overblown. The imperium is barely being held together, despite all the memes the Lion is loyal. He is also a strategic genius, I think a) he can work out Gman needed to take the reigns to keep the imperium together and b) trying to rock the boat whilst the imperium is fighting for its life is foolish.

[CCE1981]

 

 

From Ashes of Prospero I think Russ is four Primarchs out if I remember right. It’s been some time since I read it, and it was a psychic dream from their head Rune Priest.

I haven't read that book, but from what I've heard, Njal finds nothing about Russ but is drawn to Prospero, where he finds some survivors of the 13th Company lost in the Warp Gate network, and Magnus has a plan so use said network so Daemons can manifest in realspace without rituals or something like that.

 

So with that in mind, and Prospero/Sortiarius being the location for the fourth Psychic Awakening campaign, wouldn't that hint towards Russ more so than any other Primarch?

From what I remember your correct that he didn’t see Russ, he saw things that suggest 2x loyalist and 2x heretic Primarchs. I belive that being a Space Wolf himself he would have seen Russ.

[Lephisto]

The only Primarchs think that have chance that GW will bring back for the loyalist are Dorn, the Lion and Russ. I'm happy either way. I would be guttered if they brought back Sanguinious or Ferrus, because they are "dead". The only Primarchs I wouldn't be disappointed in bring back from the dead are the traitors because of their connection to the Chaos Gods.