Claws and Effect Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 You've got to wonder what these disappeard loyalist primarchs have been up to. Corax has apparently been terrorizing them for years but for all of that, he hasn't claimed any big name scalps over the millennia. It would be a bit of an awkward conversation with g-man if he does turn up. "So, did you thwart Abaddons plans, brother?" "Nope, but lots of the minions are super duper scared of me"Time works strangely in the Warp. Maybe from his point of view, Shadows of the Past only happened yesterday while from Lorgar's it has been 9000 years. Also Corax is just one person. Even someone as powerful as he seems to be can only be in one place at a time and he didn't take any troops with him. The Primarchs were (supposed to be) leaders as well as killing machines. If Corax has gone solo, he is not using a significant portion of his capabilities while most of the traitor Primarchs still command significant factions of their respective Legions. This. And also, what if Corax has been killing off "big names" before they got a chance to become important? Like, maybe if Corax wasn't in the Eye murdering Chaos Marines we'd have a lot more powerful commanders and/or daemon princes running around. "Hmm, this guy is building some momentum and attracting a lot of followers. Better nip that in the bud before it gets out of hand." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5399067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Firewalker Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 And also, what if Corax has been killing off "big names" before they got a chance to become important? Like, maybe if Corax wasn't in the Eye murdering Chaos Marines we'd have a lot more powerful commanders and/or daemon princes running around. "Hmm, this guy is building some momentum and attracting a lot of followers. Better nip that in the bud before it gets out of hand." Good idea; I hope Games Workshop picks it up. It would give Corax's "Nevermore," a better context. Instead of a broken man's "Nevermore will I fight,"- the impression I got after reading about the Primarch in 3rd Edition- it's a good father's "Nevermore will I let my sons suffer for my mistakes. Instead, I will personally fight the enemy in their own domain." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5399318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'm Heckus Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I think Corax is just waiting in the warp for emo bangs to come back in style. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5399614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I love Corax because he hates Chaos with such a passion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5399995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefeb Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I really hope one or more loyalist primarchs are going to return sooner rather than later. Old man Russ could esily follow on the heels of the Wulfen 13th company and would be a great addition. The Lion I'm not so keen on from a personal perspective as I don't like the DA, but that's a personal thing. I do think the Lion and RG would clash much more than Russ and RG as the Lion (and his sons) cant really follow orders or a plan that doesn't serve his own means so well, and the DA are exceptionally self serving and not really what the Imperium needs. Corax I think was heavily hinted at with the Shrike job interview video...the poster on the wall behind the interviewers was a big possible hint I think. Vulkan would be great too...his focus on the real people of the Imperium would be a real slant on the whole dark apocalyptic future setting and great to explore. The Psychic Awakening could also be very much directed at Sanguinius being resurrected. He was a very powerful psyker and his body is perfectly preserved on Baal. Is not beyond the realms of possibilities that a great psychic awakening could bring him back, after all Horus slayed him partly with dark powers so why cant psychic shenanigans bring him back? Any of the primarchs could have been held by Trazyn in a tesseract vault or time lock thing similar to what we saw in the rise of the primarch and cadia falls setting, so there is a wealth of ways to return any of them. Ultimately, and I don't think it will happen for some time, we could see the Emperor returning....all this mass of psychic energy coursing through the warp and galaxy could easily flow into him on the golden throne and regenerate him fully or partly and open the doors to a whole new age of conquest and crusading....potentially great times ahead for the loyalists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5401884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 It's corax. Pyskic awakening is during the indomitus crusade. The only loyalist that could be back and people wouldn't know is corax. If Russ came back, odds are people would know, except for his legion ships being spotted all-over the Galaxy and dipping out before contact. Russ and his heresy legion saved some mechanics at the fall of cadia Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5402448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 We don't know for sure whether PA is JUST during the Indomitus Crusade. It could extend a little bit after as well. Also any of them could have appeared on the dark side of the galaxy without others knowing about it since communication and traveling is kinda difficult ever since the Great Rift split the galaxy in two. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5402541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 It's corax. Pyskic awakening is during the indomitus crusade. The only loyalist that could be back and people wouldn't know is corax. I would love this, but I'm not going to hold my breath. We've had hints about 3 of them, if you count the poster in the Shrike video as a hint (more likely an Easter egg playing on his ability to go invisible). We've had a hint that the slab Lion was napping on is now empty. We've had a hint that Russ has actually been sighted in the field. My money is on the next Loyalist Primarch to return being one of those two. I'd be over the freaking moon if it were Corax, but the logical part of me says it will be one of the Primarchs whose Chapter has it's own Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5404411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJL Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 It's corax. Pyskic awakening is during the indomitus crusade. The only loyalist that could be back and people wouldn't know is corax. If Russ came back, odds are people would know, except for his legion ships being spotted all-over the Galaxy and dipping out before contact. Russ and his heresy legion saved some mechanics at the fall of cadia Russ was seen at the fall of cadia? where can I read that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5404886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I don't expect loyalist primarchs anytime soon. GW is gonna milk guilliman for a few years. We might see fulgrim tho. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5405609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I don't expect loyalist primarchs anytime soon. GW is gonna milk guilliman for a few years. We might see fulgrim tho. I'm betting we'll see Lion or Russ sometime next year. Sales on Guilliman have certainly slowed by now. Everyone who wants him has had a couple years to get him. GW is going to want to drop a big ticket model at some point, and those 2 are the most likely to be picked for it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5405719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Hope it’s Lionel. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5405781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjorn Firewalker Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Hope it’s Lionel. I STRONGLY doubt the Lion will be happy with what the Dark Angels Inner Circle has done in his name. Will Azrael and his brethren commit suicide in penance for how their obsession with "honor" caused more harm to the very Imperium the Lion fought so hard to protect, than many Chaos Space Marine Legions- robbing the Imperium of loyal men, women, and Marines whose presence could've turned the tide on many critical battlefields, if the Dark Angels hadn't eliminated them for seeing some sign of the Fallen- or will the Inner Circle turn to Chaos out of their unearned sense of pride, like the very Fallen its members hunted for so long? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5405792 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 None of the above. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5405796 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Sacrifice Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I think it will be Russ, and Space Wolves will get some unique Primaris releases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5406501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellebras Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I remember one of Valrak's sources gave him a hint that an "obsession" of his (generally taken to mean primarchs) would bear fruit in the Psychic Awakening storyline. Supposedly the next three books (in order) include Black Templars, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves. So two chapters associated with missing primarchs. A big, setting-shaking release seems unlikely until the last book, and I don't expect we'll see a primarch for a chapter without its own standalone codex any time soon. Space Wolves are pretty popular anyway. So assuming those rumors are accurate, I think we'll be seeing Russ some time next year. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5407524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 I remember one of Valrak's sources gave him a hint that an "obsession" of his (generally taken to mean primarchs) would bear fruit in the Psychic Awakening storyline. Supposedly the next three books (in order) include Black Templars, Blood Angels, and Space Wolves. So two chapters associated with missing primarchs. A big, setting-shaking release seems unlikely until the last book, and I don't expect we'll see a primarch for a chapter without its own standalone codex any time soon. Space Wolves are pretty popular anyway. So assuming those rumors are accurate, I think we'll be seeing Russ some time next year. But which obsession? His obsession with Imperial Fists or returning primarchs? What if the potential nugget pacifies both? Remember the vague rumor a month ago that talked about Helbrecht buying the farm and the Black Templar’s returning to Terra to pick a new High Marshal? What if that pans out? What if Dorn steps forward to lead the Templars? So book 2 ends in a Black Templar defeat, but book III ends with the return of the Praetorian to lead the Crusade that never ends? You can further tie that back to the rumor from a few years ago that some Primarchs would return and not lead their original Chapters. Seeing as A) the Black Templar’s never really followed the Codex and B) They worship the Emperor as a God in direct opposition to Guillimans religious views regarding the Emperor... it lines up way to good for me... it must be wrong. If that’s Not the case, then yeah, it’s got to be Russ right? Surely they wouldn’t resurrect Sanguinius... Suprisingly that scares me and I am not laughing anymore... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5407553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 But Dorn never worshipped the Emperor either, so I imagine he wouldn't be too similar in his views with the Black Templars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5407563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 But Dorn never worshipped the Emperor either, so I imagine he wouldn't be too similar in his views with the Black Templars. According to Index Astartes he lived for so long that he accepted the Emperor's divinity as that became the Imperium's unofficial religion, so if he does come back he will actually have more in common with the Black Templars than the Imperial Fists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5407567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 But Dorn never worshipped the Emperor either, so I imagine he wouldn't be too similar in his views with the Black Templars. According to Index Astartes he lived for so long that he accepted the Emperor's divinity as that became the Imperium's unofficial religion, so if he does come back he will actually have more in common with the Black Templars than the Imperial Fists. Yes, but the Index Astartes also predates the Imperial Truth "retcon" from the Horus Heresy novels. I mean, maybe they'll continue that, but it'll be a massive shift from the "current" portrayal of him in the Heresy/Siege series, where he basically casts Sigismund out because he even considered the possibility of the Emperor being somewhat divine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5407579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 But Dorn never worshipped the Emperor either, so I imagine he wouldn't be too similar in his views with the Black Templars. He doesn’t? I’m not sure. Remember Dorn willingly sacrifices himself because he was starting to be deified by humanity and Dorn only believed one being was worthy of that. The Emperor. Prior to that, Dorn was an unforgiving son consumed by vengeance and hatred. His mental Dam broke. The only thing that changed this was his religious experience in the pain glove. Then he relents to accept Guillimans reforms. Then he agrees to baptize his Legion into a Chapter. The Legion had to die, and be born again into a Chapter. Ironically it was Guilliman who stopped the process before it could be finished... so more than 1 Chapter was founded. Dorn was just as religious as Lorgar. He just hid it under a facade of Duty and one hell of a mental wall he didn’t let anyone else see. Hell he is so stubborn he probably even lied to himself about it. The dam breaks on Terra. He’s never the same again. But the vision in the pain glove shows him the God he always worshipped in secret was still around. This changes everything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5407610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Except for the fact that he basically exiled Sigismund for saying what you're saying Dorn believed. That may have been Dorn's fluff from back when the Index Astartes articles were being written, but it absolutely is not the current portrayal of Dorn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5407617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Dorn didn’t admonish Sigismund for Emperor worship. He admonished Sigismund for shirking his duty as an Imperial Fist for reasons of pride and vanity based on the ramblings of a psyker/prophet. He practically accuses Sigismund for making the same choice that Horus did. Sigismund realizes this, it’s why he asks to commit suicide. Crimson Fist was a great story. It showed you two Imperial Fists who had a choice... follow orders no matter what, or seek their own desires. Sigismund chose wrong. Polux chose right. Fists follow orders, because fists are just tools, weapons. Fate is not up to them. Sigismund should have went to his inglorious death, no matter if he believed in it or not. That’s why Dorn disowns him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5407619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Which, if Dorn believed the Emperor to truly be a god, he would have at least entertained as a message from his God, not the ramblings of a psyker. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5407623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boldthreat Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Ah but Sigismund didn’t get a message from his God, he got a warning from a self prophesed prophet. In an age when speaking to the Emperor was a direct and literal thing. Objectively, you can argue that Dorn is not religious in the Heresy, but I think if you look deeply at him from Horus Rising to now... you will see that the foreshadowing of this is always there, lurking underneath his stern demeanor. I’m not saying you are wrong. What I’m saying is that the Dorn before the Emperor's enthronement and after are two different beasts. Look at Dorn objectively from the beginning of the Heresy to now. The Primarch that could never tell a lie has told non stop lies... he has killed innocents to hide the truth. He killed a Primarch and hid the fact. He showed that for all his claims of being against subterfuge, he has shown that he is more than capable of it. Hell at this point, I think he’s the true father of the inquisition. Because the Inquisition is just a continuation of everything he did in the Heresy. I could be wrong. Probably am. But I think Plague War is setting this up potentially. Guilliman has Lorgars book, he’s gonna read it to understand how all this happened. But he’s gonna come to a shocking conclusion, Lorgars work is the Old Testament, it’s about the God who was... this new theology is the New Testament... for the God who is... who facilitated this: Theoretical - Lorgars work, 1000 years after my “death” and inspite of us burning it from history literally, sparked the birth of the religion the Emperor never wanted... leading to a totalitarian regime He never wanted. Practical - the worship of He Who Sits on the Throne was facilitated after my “death”... by the Son who was still alive and not missing, by the Son who put him there in the first place. By the Son who signed off on the sacrifice of 1000 souls a day to keep his father alive. By the son who died to insure the Emperor was worshiped... not himself! Psychic Awakening is supposed to be shattering! Russ coming back to lead the wolves... epic... but galaxy shattering? He’s a warlord more than anything. The Khan? The loaner? Nah. Corax, the brooder who is wrapped in self shame and self exile? Nah. The Lion... maybe, but he’s gonna be so wrapped in Fallen will it be shattering to the greater Imperium? Nah. Vulcan... if he finds his marbles? A cyborg Ferrus? Definitely so! He hated everyone. But he’s dead for now. Same for Sangy. No. There is only one Primarch that is central to the post Horus Heresy story besides Guilliman and his Codex. It’s Dorn. Dorn puts the Emperor on the Throne. What if it is against the Emperors will? It’s Dorn who outlives his brothers. It’s Dorn who had the most time to enact things without brotherly intervention. The Primarch who we know will lie and kill to hide the truth. The Primarch we know will stop at nothing to keep his fathers Imperium together... including genocide. No, the big shocking reveal is the revelation of the hidden Primarch who guided this monotheistic, totalitarian, fascist brutal existence for 10,000 years. Or more than likely I’m wrong. But man... I can’t see how all of the writers who get together don’t look at what came before, the direction they are going, and not see this huge glaring potential. This would shatter everything we thought we knew. What is the Wolftime compared to this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/358636-next-primarch-to-return/page/6/#findComment-5407820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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