Psychic Awakening 2 Chaos factions

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Congratulations (....) for those idiots who name their reliable source of information. Best way for GW to track back the person and stop the leak. 

God their is even a youtube video with his pseudo clearly named. How many source of future stuff need to be shut down by GW before all can understand that ? Not like giving a source for a rumor/leak is relevant either. 

 

@Lanparth: Couldn't say it better myself. If I could talk to one of the GW developers for Psychic Awakening I would just give them this one scenario and ask this one question.

I have a death guard helbrute. My friend has a Iron hands Dreadnought. Those Legions are each others counterparts, the legions/chapters known for being tough, one loyal, one traitor. Both mono armies, no strats or support units. Both are geared for ranged anti tank, with twin lascannons and missile launchers. Both come out to 100 points exactly and are very very similar in base unit rules/stats.

My DG helbrute gets move and shoot heavies without penalty. That's it.

My friend's IH Dreadnought gets move and shoot heavies without penalties. AND re roll 1's to hit on heavies. AND -1AP on heavies. AND 6+++ FNP. AND hits on 5+ for overwatch. That's without strats or support (which he has waaaay more of anyways). That's simply for existing in an IH army, turn one doctrine.

My one question is this. What are you guys going to do to close that gap in "psychic awakening"?

 

Consider yourself lucky, you got the best legion trait for Hellbrute, my EC hellbrute is kinda meh, and my WB Hellbrute got anything, or a NL one.

 

 

Rumor says we wont get any modification for our legion trait. Are we officialy the only codex(es) without specific bonus on our tank ? 

[Panzer]

Congratulations (....) for those idiots who name their reliable source of information. Best way for GW to track back the person and stop the leak. 

God their is even a youtube video with his pseudo clearly named. How many source of future stuff need to be shut down by GW before all can understand that ? Not like giving a source for a rumor/leak is relevant either. 

 

 

Firstly, the original source didn't get named. Like at all. Only the guy, Kikasstou, who posts the infos he gets on forums. Since he posts them on a public forum it's on him, not on the ones who refer to him. Due his track record he has build himself some reliability so people started to trust what he said is going to happen. That doesn't necessarily make him the actual source though.

Now if I were to just repeat what Kikasstou said without saying that I got it from him (like you want people to do apparently) and happen to be right every time because he's usually right then I'd build a similar reliability and people would start to quote me on it. Now are people supposed to not quote me despite not knowing whether I'm the actual source or not? Because I'm not but for someone not in the know I'd appear exactly like Kikasstou.

 

Secondly, how dare you to call people idiots for something like that? We don't have a right on leaks. It's a nice thing to have but at the pace GW is releasing stuff and WarCom being a thing it's really just a novelty these days.

 

Thirdly, it already happened a few times that GW got pushed to reveal something earlier than they planned because of leaks which lead to big gaps between the reveal and the actual release which made many people rather mad. So in those cases the leak happening was a bad thing even.

 

Lastly, giving a source for a rumour/leak IS relevant. Everything else is just a random guy posting random things. If you like that then I have a nice page called BoLS you might want to visit. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

I think the rules in the PA2 book will be stop gaps, small flavour bumps in power. Nowhere what the book needs or what the players want but they'll likely be a taste of the actual redo of the book which I imagine won't be out for another 4-5 months, they released Vigilus part 2, 7 months ago as Marshal Loss pointed out. To me a year between books makes the most sense and something they won't get as much flakk for. If the rumours for the PA books are only going up to 4 ATM, I imagine they'll break at 4 and redo some of the first wave of codexes probably from the first wave of PA books, i.e: first 4 PA books are rumoured to have: Eldar, DE, CSM, BA, nids, SW and Orks so in between the end of book 4 and start of 5 they redo, some of these codexes.

 

I could be entirely off-pace with it there but to me that would make the most sense have the PA books as a small band-aid until the full release is done

[DreamIsCollapsing]

 

A pseudo is enough to track it. GW can find his country, his posts, what it did reveal and find wich IRL personn it is. So yeah source get named. Whatever if he is the actual source, he wil at best just stop (already did) at worst got professional consequences.

 

Now if I were to just repeat what Kikasstou said without saying that I got it from him (like you want people to do apparently) and happen to be right every time because he's usually right then I'd build a similar reliability and people would start to quote me on it.

 

 

False. You wont be the only guy reporting his info, so it would have be just rumor. And even if, so what ? GW will search a german source of leak instead of a french one. 

 

Secondly, how dare you to call people idiots for something like that? We don't have a right on leaks. It's a nice thing to have but at the pace GW is releasing stuff and WarCom being a thing it's really just a novelty these days.

 

 

So you dont listen to leak ? Ok, but those guy whom named it are all after it, they even make youtube video over those leaks. And those same guy named their source, making much easier for GW to spot it : thats idiot. 

Internet got only a short term memory : 3 month before the release of Imperial Knight Codex a french youtube chanel talked about it (saying they(re would be new Knight, a powerfull codex wich will change the meta). They also talk about new Obliterators and Abadon mounth before the actual release (wich is nice, as chaos player knew not to build the old models). 

Those leaks were reported on "popular" web site, with the name of the source : End of story.

[Panzer]

A pseudo is enough to track it. GW can find his country, his posts, what it did reveal and find wich IRL personn it is. So yeah source get named. Whatever if he is the actual source, he wil at best just stop (already did) at worst got professional consequences.

 

 

Now if I were to just repeat what Kikasstou said without saying that I got it from him (like you want people to do apparently) and happen to be right every time because he's usually right then I'd build a similar reliability and people would start to quote me on it.

 

 

False. You wont be the only guy reporting his info, so it would have be just rumor. And even if, so what ? GW will search a german source of leak instead of a french one. 

 

Secondly, how dare you to call people idiots for something like that? We don't have a right on leaks. It's a nice thing to have but at the pace GW is releasing stuff and WarCom being a thing it's really just a novelty these days.

 

 

So you dont listen to leak ? Ok, but those guy whom named it are all after it, they even make youtube video over those leaks. And those same guy named their source, making much easier for GW to spot it : thats idiot. 

Internet got only a short term memory : 3 month before the release of Imperial Knight Codex a french youtube chanel talked about it (saying they(re would be new Knight, a powerfull codex wich will change the meta). They also talk about new Obliterators and Abadon mounth before the actual release (wich is nice, as chaos player knew not to build the old models). 

Those leaks were reported on "popular" web site, with the name of the source : End of story.

Yeah no sorry that's just bull :cuss .

[Excessus]

Ok, the bickering stops here! Take it to PM if you really feel the urge to continue...

[techsoldaten]

I don't agree actually.

 

Possessed and Berserkers are units that will struggle to find any meaning in the current edition. As for Noise Marines, I think they'll find themselves in the position of el generico marines. These units are designed for a game that's no longer being played. An era of melee and effective 24 inch infantry weaponry. In an era where you can be deleted with extreme prejudice at 30 inches by multiple armies, or Eldar, they're going to be a hard sell.

 

Fundamentally, they are fragile units (maybe Possessed will get a buff). Durability is a fantasy for most armies unless they're things like Necrons or Death Guard / Nurgle Daemons. More than tactics or army wide rules, I want things that are going to be effective as an actual army. Right now, Chaos suffers from being an underequiped, technologically backwards army. Before, when everything was still in that 24 threat range, they could still be very effective. Now I think it's questionable.

 

They're either able to be outmaneuvered and blitzed by dangerous xeno weapons (Eldar of all types), or forced into fighting gunlines or monstrous levesl of enemy firepower (Primaris, Executioners, Guard, Knights, ect). WIth things shutting down deepstrike now, it's really another tool out of the box for them. In other words, it's a big problem. Old models that need new models, are not going to really help, in my opinion. Chaos needs a revitalization, much like the marines got. And I think we're a long way from there.

 

New releases that aren't that, are just more kindling for the fire

 

 

Berzerkers and Noise Marines may have lost their place at the table, but that doesn't mean Chaos needs a NuMarines-style revitalization.

 

I disagree and believe there could be no greater setback for 8th edition Chaos.

 

People are just tired of the uncertainty with their Chaos armies. I'm cycling through lists right now, trying to keep up with the meta. More changes would just mean throwing out everything that works and starting over again.

 

I have a more faith in minor, iterative tweaks to let them keep up, followed by future releases that add to what we can do. Some ideas could include making Legion traits apply to every unit, making psychic powers area of effect, adjusting the points downward for everything MEQ / Rhinos, putting out better Stratagems, etc. I've been testing some of these via house rules and finding some satisfaction.

 

As for old models... let's say GW released a WE Codex right now along with new sculpts for Berzerkers, Cult Terminators, Bloodgors, a Skull Tower and a couple new HQ models that all look great. Now let's say the Codex is terrible, Grey Knights level awful.

 

How do you think all that would sell? My guess: people would buy a lot of new books and models. There's pent-up demand for WE and the novelty of a new faction would get a lot of attention. Sure, they may still be too fragile, cost too much compared to comparable units from other armies, etc, but that doesn't mean people wouldn't buy them.

 

Saying this to make the point: GW releases things that benefit them, not players. They will release Berzerkers and Noise Marines when they need to make some sales. Likewise, they will revise rules for existing factions when they need to sell more of their existing stock.

 

If GW was to revamp all the rules for Chaos, that creates demand for changes to other factions. Then they improve the other factions, weakening Chaos in the process. It would be better to keep up with the meta than to be OP for 6 months until they decide they need to sell more Necrons. Which would put us back into a cycle of list churn. Better to make small changes that keep us in the running.

[Lord_Starscream]

 

I don't agree actually.

 

Possessed and Berserkers are units that will struggle to find any meaning in the current edition. As for Noise Marines, I think they'll find themselves in the position of el generico marines. These units are designed for a game that's no longer being played. An era of melee and effective 24 inch infantry weaponry. In an era where you can be deleted with extreme prejudice at 30 inches by multiple armies, or Eldar, they're going to be a hard sell.

 

Fundamentally, they are fragile units (maybe Possessed will get a buff). Durability is a fantasy for most armies unless they're things like Necrons or Death Guard / Nurgle Daemons. More than tactics or army wide rules, I want things that are going to be effective as an actual army. Right now, Chaos suffers from being an underequiped, technologically backwards army. Before, when everything was still in that 24 threat range, they could still be very effective. Now I think it's questionable.

 

They're either able to be outmaneuvered and blitzed by dangerous xeno weapons (Eldar of all types), or forced into fighting gunlines or monstrous levesl of enemy firepower (Primaris, Executioners, Guard, Knights, ect). WIth things shutting down deepstrike now, it's really another tool out of the box for them. In other words, it's a big problem. Old models that need new models, are not going to really help, in my opinion. Chaos needs a revitalization, much like the marines got. And I think we're a long way from there.

 

New releases that aren't that, are just more kindling for the fire

 

 

Berzerkers and Noise Marines may have lost their place at the table, but that doesn't mean Chaos needs a NuMarines-style revitalization.

 

I disagree and believe there could be no greater setback for 8th edition Chaos.

 

People are just tired of the uncertainty with their Chaos armies. I'm cycling through lists right now, trying to keep up with the meta. More changes would just mean throwing out everything that works and starting over again.

 

I have a more faith in minor, iterative tweaks to let them keep up, followed by future releases that add to what we can do. Some ideas could include making Legion traits apply to every unit, making psychic powers area of effect, adjusting the points downward for everything MEQ / Rhinos, putting out better Stratagems, etc. I've been testing some of these via house rules and finding some satisfaction.

 

As for old models... let's say GW released a WE Codex right now along with new sculpts for Berzerkers, Cult Terminators, Bloodgors, a Skull Tower and a couple new HQ models that all look great. Now let's say the Codex is terrible, Grey Knights level awful.

 

How do you think all that would sell? My guess: people would buy a lot of new books and models. There's pent-up demand for WE and the novelty of a new faction would get a lot of attention. Sure, they may still be too fragile, cost too much compared to comparable units from other armies, etc, but that doesn't mean people wouldn't buy them.

 

Saying this to make the point: GW releases things that benefit them, not players. They will release Berzerkers and Noise Marines when they need to make some sales. Likewise, they will revise rules for existing factions when they need to sell more of their existing stock.

 

If GW was to revamp all the rules for Chaos, that creates demand for changes to other factions. Then they improve the other factions, weakening Chaos in the process. It would be better to keep up with the meta than to be OP for 6 months until they decide they need to sell more Necrons. Which would put us back into a cycle of list churn. Better to make small changes that keep us in the running.

 

 

I think GW's just not smart enough to realize that their incremental changes aren't going to work because they've tactically changed the game. World Eaters are going to be a very poor faction unless they give them something totally obscene. I'm simply saying, giving Chaos Marines more units that fill the general idea of:

 

"Close Combat 1W models with 3+ armour saves" and "24 inch threat 1W marines with 3+ armour saves" and "Deep Striking assault troops" which are all pretty common staples for CSM, are going to be bad. They can go down in points. They can get new nifty abilities. But they're weakened the moment they meet the table, and I don't think GW fully understands that yet. Because they don't catch on to their own changes really for months / years. 

[Panzer]

If Noise Marines would get new models I could finally start my EC project for good even without a separate Codex or new rules. What keeps me from doing so is the expectation of something new coming soon-ish (as in in the next 5 years), not the subpar rules. If they don't hurry with it I'm going to be too invested in AoS projects to pick them up at release. :P

[Sonoftherubric21]

I cannot agree with Noise and Zerkers being "bad". In my experience with both on the table they are overall fairly solid. I don't really know what metric you are using for "good vs bad" units honestly. Both are perhaps ever so slightly over-costed given they are indeed just one wound, but their output is good from my table time with them. 

 

Both chew through hordes, Noise Marines don't care about the 24 inch range, their threat is effectively 30 for x3 shots per model, I have found them to be *slightly* over-costed (1-2 points) but they usually do well in my games. Stick em in a rhino and scream infantry off the table.... they do what they say on the tin. 

 

Nor can I agree with possessed being bad BUT they do require substantial support, no choice about that one. Its a list design, not a "plug and play" unit. Noise and Zerks can both be "plug and play" units with little outside help needed. 
 

I ain't saying they are gonna win a GT spamming them, but I think anyone running undivided legions should own a single unit of each. 

[Lord_Starscream]

I cannot agree with Noise and Zerkers being "bad". In my experience with both on the table they are overall fairly solid. I don't really know what metric you are using for "good vs bad" units honestly. Both are perhaps ever so slightly over-costed given they are indeed just one wound, but their output is good from my table time with them. 

 

Both chew through hordes, Noise Marines don't care about the 24 inch range, their threat is effectively 30 for x3 shots per model, I have found them to be *slightly* over-costed (1-2 points) but they usually do well in my games. Stick em in a rhino and scream infantry off the table.... they do what they say on the tin. 

 

Nor can I agree with possessed being bad BUT they do require substantial support, no choice about that one. Its a list design, not a "plug and play" unit. Noise and Zerks can both be "plug and play" units with little outside help needed. 

 

I ain't saying they are gonna win a GT spamming them, but I think anyone running undivided legions should own a single unit of each. 

 

Bad? Bad units are units that are neutralized easily without much means of fighting back.

 

Hammering a unit with 20 -1 AP bolter rounds before they can fight you? That's pretty painful to overcome. 14 hits, 7 wounds, 4 kills. And if your out of range, those noise marines shooting before death may not even apply. And that's just generic weaponry being fired at them from a Primaris squad. They move into range next turn with at least 30% of their unit strength, or 40%, gone. Because their threat range is 24 inches, not 30.

 

The problem is threat range, durability, and movement options, as well as other factions having the ability to deny a lot of abilities like Deepstrike.

 

So Noise Marines and Khorne Beserkers are going to face withering fire, before they actually are able to come into their threat zones for the enemy. Making them cheaper doesn't actually fix this, because the damage output by armies like Eldar, Dark Eldar, (now, and especially) Space Marines, and Guard, can stop them pretty flat, with limited responses in turn. And that's not even counting them expending serious firepower into them. Once you start firing on them with Hellblasters or some such, they're even more deleted than they were before.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Chaos definately needs the NuMarines treatment... No ifs, ands or buts. Primaris units are better. Their old marines are cheaper then our basic chaos marines. Their traits are infinitely better and apply to everything. They get bonus doctrines for being mono armies. Then another chapter bonus based off that. If you think a new unit or two, a new spell or a plastic noise marine/bezerker kit is going to fix that, I would love to buy whatever you're smoking. Even if we get all that matching, lower point costs, better traits, and ridiculous mono army buffS, we will STILL be at a disadvantage because ranged is so much better then melee in 8th.

[Captain Incompetence]

Chaos definately needs the NuMarines treatment... No ifs, ands or buts. Primaris units are better. Their old marines are cheaper then our basic chaos marines. Their traits are infinitely better and apply to everything. They get bonus doctrines for being mono armies. Then another chapter bonus based off that. If you think a new unit or two, a new spell or a plastic noise marine/bezerker kit is going to fix that, I would love to buy whatever you're smoking. Even if we get all that matching, lower point costs, better traits, and ridiculous mono army buffS, we will STILL be at a disadvantage because ranged is so much better then melee in 8th.

 

I pretty much agree completely with this, but there's also something to be said about being cautiously optimistic about PA. Simply put, it won't make our situation get any worse than it currently is. While it might not be what we want or need right now, it might just give us another bandaid to atleast help the army til we get a fully reworked codex. And if PA doesn't deliver anything significant, atleast we won't have to carry yet another book to the shop.

[MegaVolt87]

 

Chaos definately needs the NuMarines treatment... No ifs, ands or buts. Primaris units are better. Their old marines are cheaper then our basic chaos marines. Their traits are infinitely better and apply to everything. They get bonus doctrines for being mono armies. Then another chapter bonus based off that. If you think a new unit or two, a new spell or a plastic noise marine/bezerker kit is going to fix that, I would love to buy whatever you're smoking. Even if we get all that matching, lower point costs, better traits, and ridiculous mono army buffS, we will STILL be at a disadvantage because ranged is so much better then melee in 8th.

 

I pretty much agree completely with this, but there's also something to be said about being cautiously optimistic about PA. Simply put, it won't make our situation get any worse than it currently is. While it might not be what we want or need right now, it might just give us another bandaid to atleast help the army til we get a fully reworked codex. And if PA doesn't deliver anything significant, atleast we won't have to carry yet another book to the shop.

 

 

Everyone is beyond frustrated at this point, we need bandages and stitches, not band aids so we can make it to the surgery at least. I am in agreement though, it can't get much worse than it already is for CSM. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

 

 

Chaos definately needs the NuMarines treatment... No ifs, ands or buts. Primaris units are better. Their old marines are cheaper then our basic chaos marines. Their traits are infinitely better and apply to everything. They get bonus doctrines for being mono armies. Then another chapter bonus based off that. If you think a new unit or two, a new spell or a plastic noise marine/bezerker kit is going to fix that, I would love to buy whatever you're smoking. Even if we get all that matching, lower point costs, better traits, and ridiculous mono army buffS, we will STILL be at a disadvantage because ranged is so much better then melee in 8th.

I pretty much agree completely with this, but there's also something to be said about being cautiously optimistic about PA. Simply put, it won't make our situation get any worse than it currently is. While it might not be what we want or need right now, it might just give us another bandaid to atleast help the army til we get a fully reworked codex. And if PA doesn't deliver anything significant, atleast we won't have to carry yet another book to the shop.

Everyone is beyond frustrated at this point, we need bandages and stitches, not band aids so we can make it to the surgery at least. I am in agreement though, it can't get much worse than it already is for CSM.

Hahaha how COULD it get worse? Shorten the range of Night Lord's worthless trait? Take traits away from bikers? Raise the cost of marines another point to be two higher then tacticals? I mean I hope PA addresses stuff but it's going to take a codex.

 

I don't want them to tweak units. The second they add rules or change them on a Maulerfiend for example they will increase it's cost too which just adds to the problem. If they just give all the Legions better traits and strats and mono buffs then the units will find their place. That's what space marines have right now. They can take almost any unit and make them good or somewhat competitive. I want that. Raptors could see the table again!

 

Edit: Did they post a rough time line of the PA phases or no?

[Marshal Loss]

No public timeline, rumours indicate 4 books in rapid succession but nothing beyond that. I honestly think the whole PA thing is going to pan out to be nothing more than empty hype with no major change to the universe, but we'll see

[Iron Father Ferrum]

No public timeline, rumours indicate 4 books in rapid succession but nothing beyond that. I honestly think the whole PA thing is going to pan out to be nothing more than empty hype with no major change to the universe, but we'll see

I'm hoping that they learned their lesson from the jeers we gave them about Vigilus Ablaze's ending. Since we apparently have no new character models coming with the book, maybe they'll be willing to kill off whatever named Chaos Lords appear. No real effect on the tabletop or in life, really, but at least it moves thing a little.

[techsoldaten]

Chaos definately needs the NuMarines treatment... No ifs, ands or buts. Primaris units are better. Their old marines are cheaper then our basic chaos marines. Their traits are infinitely better and apply to everything. They get bonus doctrines for being mono armies. Then another chapter bonus based off that. If you think a new unit or two, a new spell or a plastic noise marine/bezerker kit is going to fix that, I would love to buy whatever you're smoking. Even if we get all that matching, lower point costs, better traits, and ridiculous mono army buffS, we will STILL be at a disadvantage because ranged is so much better then melee in 8th.

 

There's a thread about NuMarines versus Chaos, good summary of their worst points.

 

Until NuMarines were released, it thought 8th edition was free from powerlevelling. Each time a new Codex came out, I've been able to keep up with the meta through list changes. It made the game more enjoyable.

 

Right now, it does kind of feel like Chaos is an Index army compared to the full Codex of NuMarines. I mentioned the use of house rules, but I've also been exploring a lot of unorthodox lists. The one I've been playtesting is Daemon Primarchs, it's been winning against Ultramarines and Iron Hands.

 

Aside from wanting to avoid a cycle of constant powerlevelling, I'm not entirely sure Chaos needs the NuMarine treatment. We still have Daemon Primarchs, we still have Nurgle Daemons, we still have Death Guard, etc. While NuMarines make winning a little tougher, it's not impossible.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

Chaos definately needs the NuMarines treatment... No ifs, ands or buts. Primaris units are better. Their old marines are cheaper then our basic chaos marines. Their traits are infinitely better and apply to everything. They get bonus doctrines for being mono armies. Then another chapter bonus based off that. If you think a new unit or two, a new spell or a plastic noise marine/bezerker kit is going to fix that, I would love to buy whatever you're smoking. Even if we get all that matching, lower point costs, better traits, and ridiculous mono army buffS, we will STILL be at a disadvantage because ranged is so much better then melee in 8th.

There's a thread about NuMarines versus Chaos, good summary of their worst points.

 

Until NuMarines were released, it thought 8th edition was free from powerlevelling. Each time a new Codex came out, I've been able to keep up with the meta through list changes. It made the game more enjoyable.

 

Right now, it does kind of feel like Chaos is an Index army compared to the full Codex of NuMarines. I mentioned the use of house rules, but I've also been exploring a lot of unorthodox lists. The one I've been playtesting is Daemon Primarchs, it's been winning against Ultramarines and Iron Hands.

 

Aside from wanting to avoid a cycle of constant powerlevelling, I'm not entirely sure Chaos needs the NuMarine treatment. We still have Daemon Primarchs, we still have Nurgle Daemons, we still have Death Guard, etc. While NuMarines make winning a little tougher, it's not impossible.

Yeah but I don't want to play 3 factions in one list just to compete. I want to play death guard. I shouldn't HAVE to take nurgle daemons because they're better (chaos daemons), magnus (thousand sons) to sling shot Mort (death guard), etc etc just to compete. I should be able to play like a space marine chapter and pick fluff units solely in the codex and have fun while doing well. We are talking about PA and how it will hopefully address some of that. You can keep playing your Frankenstein chaos list to stay relevant, I want to play a legion...

[Lord_Starscream]

 

 

Chaos definately needs the NuMarines treatment... No ifs, ands or buts. Primaris units are better. Their old marines are cheaper then our basic chaos marines. Their traits are infinitely better and apply to everything. They get bonus doctrines for being mono armies. Then another chapter bonus based off that. If you think a new unit or two, a new spell or a plastic noise marine/bezerker kit is going to fix that, I would love to buy whatever you're smoking. Even if we get all that matching, lower point costs, better traits, and ridiculous mono army buffS, we will STILL be at a disadvantage because ranged is so much better then melee in 8th.

There's a thread about NuMarines versus Chaos, good summary of their worst points.

 

Until NuMarines were released, it thought 8th edition was free from powerlevelling. Each time a new Codex came out, I've been able to keep up with the meta through list changes. It made the game more enjoyable.

 

Right now, it does kind of feel like Chaos is an Index army compared to the full Codex of NuMarines. I mentioned the use of house rules, but I've also been exploring a lot of unorthodox lists. The one I've been playtesting is Daemon Primarchs, it's been winning against Ultramarines and Iron Hands.

 

Aside from wanting to avoid a cycle of constant powerlevelling, I'm not entirely sure Chaos needs the NuMarine treatment. We still have Daemon Primarchs, we still have Nurgle Daemons, we still have Death Guard, etc. While NuMarines make winning a little tougher, it's not impossible.

Yeah but I don't want to play 3 factions in one list just to compete. I want to play death guard. I shouldn't HAVE to take nurgle daemons because they're better (chaos daemons), magnus (thousand sons) to sling shot Mort (death guard), etc etc just to compete. I should be able to play like a space marine chapter and pick fluff units solely in the codex and have fun while doing well. We are talking about PA and how it will hopefully address some of that. You can keep playing your Frankenstein chaos list to stay relevant, I want to play a legion...

 

 

Let alone that, shockingly, I play Word Bearers and Night Lords. I actively don't want to play Death Guard or Thousand Sons. So where does that leave the majority of Chaos Space Marine factions? Just play a hodge podge of Chaos Space Marine marked legions? That's super lame.

[Kain Mor]

The only chaos army I play is Mono-codex fluff style Night Lords, kinda like the above poster. I’m not going to add Magnus or mortarion to my lists, or start running a supreme command Exalted sorcerer to *have a chance* at winning *friendly* matches at my local store.

People who say chaos marines can still win aren’t wrong, but you have to bring min maxed tourney lists to fight space marine players bringing “what looks cool” to their second game of 40k. Playing now against Space Marines feels like I forgot to bring half my army to the game.

[techsoldaten]

GW's November & December release schedule has been leaked.

 

https://natfka.blogspot.com/2019/10/major-list-of-40k-leaks-and-more.html

 

How this impacts Chaos:

 

- We are getting a Sorcerer

 

- There will be a new Start Collecting Box

 

- There will be a Chaos Battleforce in time for Chaos

 

The rumors are the Battlfeforce will contain Raptors and Bikers, which not everyone wants. Expect to see a lot of these on Ebay in the new year.

[Special Officer Doofy]

GW's November & December release schedule has been leaked.

 

https://natfka.blogspot.com/2019/10/major-list-of-40k-leaks-and-more.html

 

How this impacts Chaos:

 

- We are getting a Sorcerer

 

- There will be a new Start Collecting Box

 

- There will be a Chaos Battleforce in time for Chaos

 

The rumors are the Battlfeforce will contain Raptors and Bikers, which not everyone wants. Expect to see a lot of these on Ebay in the new year.

Thanks for passing on the information Techsoldaten! Hopefully the kits are new models and not just the old ones. If we are going to be shot off the tables until a new codex drops we might as well look sexy doing it!

[Marshal Loss]

The rumors are the Battlfeforce will contain Raptors and Bikers, which not everyone wants. Expect to see a lot of these on Ebay in the new year.

 

God :cussing damnit not bloody bikes again

 

Oh well, at least I've got the Sorcerer to look forward to.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Send me your unwanted sprues. I have no bikes...yet.