Psychic Awakening 2 Chaos factions

[techsoldaten]

In all fairness I've stopped listening to Reece for awhile now. I know he's happy to finally get recognition and support from GW, but some of his comments in the past just show how biased his assessment of things has become. 

 

But that aside, i'm glad for any rules we'll get. I've accepted the fact that CSM (and NL) are almost GW's red-headed stepchild (with GK being a close contender). I don't think it'd be too optimistic to hope for a couple of stratagems here and there.

 

I just really really hope they make morale actually matter with the NL. I've always had to make my lists around lethality and objective scoring rather than actually using the legion traits.

 

When 8th came out, Reese made bold claims about infantry that proved to be way off the mark. There's times I wonder if he's offering tactical advice or delivering talking points from Games Workshop.

 

I have a lot of sympathy for Night Lords players, the rules never do justice to the fluff. Morale shenanigans mean very little and put a good Legion to waste. The rule of 3 also screws with them since Raptors are not troops, you can only field so many.

 

I don't know what to expect from this book but my hopes are not high. GW has said some things that contradict the rumors, implying the rules update will be more elaborate for each chapter. If that turns out to be the case, great, but it felt like announcements were worded to be very confusing.

[Special Officer Doofy]

I would much rather get nothing from PA and just get the exact same treatment as space marines in the months that follow. I have a feeling the half ass treatment they get from PA will never equal the individual treatment of a new codex and actual supplements. I'd love to be wrong though.

[Lord_Starscream]

I would much rather get nothing from PA and just get the exact same treatment as space marines in the months that follow. I have a feeling the half ass treatment they get from PA will never equal the individual treatment of a new codex and actual supplements. I'd love to be wrong though.

 

Chaos Marines being notPrimaris, is going to be their repeated problem. Prepare for perpetual disappointment with shorter ranges, less wounds, and less fighting ability. Army-wide rules aren't gonna fix that, and I don't think cult marines will either.

 

PA, and a new codex, aren't going to fix that, lol

[MegaVolt87]

 

I would much rather get nothing from PA and just get the exact same treatment as space marines in the months that follow. I have a feeling the half ass treatment they get from PA will never equal the individual treatment of a new codex and actual supplements. I'd love to be wrong though.

 

Chaos Marines being notPrimaris, is going to be their repeated problem. Prepare for perpetual disappointment with shorter ranges, less wounds, and less fighting ability. Army-wide rules aren't gonna fix that, and I don't think cult marines will either.

 

PA, and a new codex, aren't going to fix that, lol

 

 

Our primaris could be our power armored chosen, chosen termi's with tartaros and cata armour options. Its not a difficult fix with new models and rules IMO. Just a matter of GW realizing the simple soloution and doing it. Fabiu's new men can also be based off primaris, so like greater possesed but +1 in overall power. 

[Special Officer Doofy]

Seeing as the main codex loyalist marines got their traits to be army wide (every unit), and I'm assuming if the chaos marines get new legion traits with PA they will be army wide as well, what do you think the chances that blood angels, dark angels, space wolves, thousand sons and death guard will get their traits legion wide?

[Archaeinox]

Seeing as the main codex loyalist marines got their traits to be army wide (every unit), and I'm assuming if the chaos marines get new legion traits with PA they will be army wide as well, what do you think the chances that blood angels, dark angels, space wolves, thousand sons and death guard will get their traits legion wide?

 

+6" to the range of psychic powers wouldn't work out too well. Each faction for chaos is a single unique issue, barely connected to the others imo.

Yall have a lot of hope lmao

[Warsmith Annüss]

 

 

 

 

 

At this point, I'll take anything that differentiates NL from, slightly scarier CSM.

I saw Reece of Frontline Gaming say he’s very happy with Night Lords.

My interpretation was that all those Legions associated with the icons in the teaser get some new chapter rules. I did notice the absence of a few Legions like Black Legion for instance. I’m not sure what that means for the long run. But I guess my source was right... he kept telling me to hold on til November.

I’m just glad some rules seem to be coming down the pipe.

I hope something good comes along, not just for NL but for the other legions as well. I remain sceptical but hopeful.

I just want NL to "feel" like a unique Legion. I don't want to look at my NL and go, "meh, I'll play UM." You know?

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

 

Seeing as the main codex loyalist marines got their traits to be army wide (every unit), and I'm assuming if the chaos marines get new legion traits with PA they will be army wide as well, what do you think the chances that blood angels, dark angels, space wolves, thousand sons and death guard will get their traits legion wide?

+6" to the range of psychic powers wouldn't work out too well. Each faction for chaos is a single unique issue, barely connected to the others imo.

 

Yall have a lot of hope lmao

Oh no I don't, I have zero faith in GW to make a balance game. Profits > balance. I just like to hear what people think. I won't buy another model until the codex creep gets addressed. But they have room to make money. For example if death guard gave their legion trait and or DR to stuff that doesn't get it like predators, rhinos, defilers, helbrutes, land raiders and such I would totally buy them and try them. A quick rule change, no new units, and they can increase profits and balance at the same time. I guess time will tell.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Yeesh, the despair in the chaos forums! Even getting a bevy of new rules we are still harping so negatively when we have a set of things to look forward to (at least as faction whole).

 

I think CA + Faith and Fury will put us on much more solid ground overall. I am expecting drops in several units. I don't really believe the current "2 wound cult troops" rumor thing despite loving the idea, though I do believe we will get some definite price drops in many areas at least. (A couple of tanks, probably Rhino and CSM are safe bets among others) which will help tremendously in list building.

 

Out of all those legions (IW, EC, WE, WB, AL, NL)  Even if just Relic, Warlord Traits, and Strategems we will see some nice stuff. Given the sheer volume, and the fact that what Black Legion overall, (....ignoring haarken....) was solid in terms of table crunch with Abbadons update, 4 really solid stratagems with good use and a couple decent ones, several good relics, and several good warlord traits. Does it make the Black Legion "even" with new marines? No, but its decent for now. 

 

ATM one of Chaos Marines biggest problems is our bad basic troops, overpriced cultists and overpriced/too weak marines. Hopefully CA tackles this at least somewhat (point off each is a good start...) 

 

Combine the 2 upcoming books together, and it will tide us over until the actual Chaos 8.5 dex. 

[Kythnos]

Yeesh, the despair in the chaos forums! Even getting a bevy of new rules we are still harping so negatively when we have a set of things to look forward to (at least as faction whole).

 

I think CA + Faith and Fury will put us on much more solid ground overall. I am expecting drops in several units. I don't really believe the current "2 wound cult troops" rumor thing despite loving the idea, though I do believe we will get some definite price drops in many areas at least. (A couple of tanks, probably Rhino and CSM are safe bets among others) which will help tremendously in list building.

 

Out of all those legions (IW, EC, WE, WB, AL, NL) Even if just Relic, Warlord Traits, and Strategems we will see some nice stuff. Given the sheer volume, and the fact that what Black Legion overall, (....ignoring haarken....) was solid in terms of table crunch with Abbadons update, 4 really solid stratagems with good use and a couple decent ones, several good relics, and several good warlord traits. Does it make the Black Legion "even" with new marines? No, but its decent for now.

 

ATM one of Chaos Marines biggest problems is our bad basic troops, overpriced cultists and overpriced/too weak marines. Hopefully CA tackles this at least somewhat (point off each is a good start...)

 

Combine the 2 upcoming books together, and it will tide us over until the actual Chaos 8.5 dex.

Don't get me wrong. I do think that new rules in PA2 and adjusted points in CA are a good thing for our faction. My Iron Warriors are eagerly awaiting their new stuff.

 

However, there is only so much you can do with new relics, traits and stratagems, when the baseline of the army is a mess. I am only playing narrative games currently, but these exclusively against NuMarines. And while I can compete in this non-competitive setting, I can only do so when I ignore most of our infantry units, e.g. Not really playing heretic astartes. And to be honest, this is nothing the upcoming changes will likely change, since the heretic astartes profile and Equipment is currently worlds away from the way it should be to actually feel like astartes on the tabletop. This is something I envy the Primaris for and I hope that our next Codex will bring back profile parity

[Marshal Loss]

Yeesh, the despair in the chaos forums! Even getting a bevy of new rules we are still harping so negatively when we have a set of things to look forward to (at least as faction whole).

 

(...)

 

Combine the 2 upcoming books together, and it will tide us over until the actual Chaos 8.5 dex. 

 

Look, I have a bit of a bone to pick with this post: whether people are positive or not is really going to come down to perspective. I can understand the frustration, though, because for well over a decade we have gone from codex to book to supplement to campaign book over and over waiting for solutions to endemic issues that are simply never forthcoming. The fact that we are now relying on a codex, a campaign book, and another iteration of CA (despite the codex being less than 9 months old) - not to mention Vigilus - to allow our army to loosely function is simply ridiculous.

 

I'm really looking forward to this supplement. I play Word Bearers so it's pretty obvious that being competitive isn't a priority for me, and relics/stratagems/warlord traits are going to give me some more flavour to play around with, which is great. Gloria Aeterna, brothers. But this supplement + CA represent just the latest in a long line of temporary fixes that GW have thrown our way. I don't want to target you in particular, because I love the positivity and viewpoint you bring to this forum, but I also don't think commenting or calling out frustration is particularly beneficial to the community here. If people want to be negative, let them be negative. If people want to be positive, let them be positive. But people should make their despair known because under no circumstances should GW be given the impression that the revolving door treatment we are receiving is at all appropriate. They're not even fixing Legion traits which would require virtually no effort at all on their part. Saying that the 4th book we need to buy in a calendar year will make us "decent" is, frankly, setting a very low bar.

 

-------

 

Anyway, now that that's done; preorder on the 16th, so PA2 has been brought forward a little. My personal wishlist:

• A stratagem/warlord trait that allows a Word Bearers Dark Apostle to take an extra prayer
• A "smash the smurfs in the face" stratagem
• A stratagem that allows us to give the daemon keyword to a marine unit

Really keen to see what my WB get. With the Corpse Grinders from Necromunda as my new cultists, this is shaping up to be a great month for my little band of religious lunatics.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Ya know Marshal....that is entirely fair. 

[techsoldaten]

 

Yeesh, the despair in the chaos forums! Even getting a bevy of new rules we are still harping so negatively when we have a set of things to look forward to (at least as faction whole).

 

(...)

 

Combine the 2 upcoming books together, and it will tide us over until the actual Chaos 8.5 dex. 

 

Look, I have a bit of a bone to pick with this post: whether people are positive or not is really going to come down to perspective. I can understand the frustration, though, because for well over a decade we have gone from codex to book to supplement to campaign book over and over waiting for solutions to endemic issues that are simply never forthcoming. The fact that we are now relying on a codex, a campaign book, and another iteration of CA (despite the codex being less than 9 months old) - not to mention Vigilus - to allow our army to loosely function is simply ridiculous.

 

I'm really looking forward to this supplement. I play Word Bearers so it's pretty obvious that being competitive isn't a priority for me, and relics/stratagems/warlord traits are going to give me some more flavour to play around with, which is great. Gloria Aeterna, brothers. But this supplement + CA represent just the latest in a long line of temporary fixes that GW have thrown our way. I don't want to target you in particular, because I love the positivity and viewpoint you bring to this forum, but I also don't think commenting or calling out frustration is particularly beneficial to the community here. If people want to be negative, let them be negative. If people want to be positive, let them be positive. But people should make their despair known because under no circumstances should GW be given the impression that the revolving door treatment we are receiving is at all appropriate. They're not even fixing Legion traits which would require virtually no effort at all on their part. Saying that the 4th book we need to buy in a calendar year will make us "decent" is, frankly, setting a very low bar.

 

Yeah, pointing out leaks in the boat doesn't make someone negative. Complaining when the water reaches your neck makes you fatalist.

 

Chaos has had a hard time the last year. I'm getting tired of rules bloat but believe the problems are mostly due to external factors - especially power leveling in other faction's Codexes. It's gotten to the point where my lists are unrecognizable, I'm running Daemon Primarchs right now and it's about the fifth list I've had to migrate to in 8th edition.

 

PA2 doesn't make me optimistic. If all the books we bought before put us in this mess, why do we believe more books is the solution? Feels like we're so fragmented nothing less than a rewrite will restore CSMs to being generally playable.

[Raven1]

....I think CA + Faith and Fury will put us on much more solid ground overall. I am expecting drops in several units....

Things to think about. Part 1 has been basically ignored by the eldar playing community. The rules are neat but not changing the eldar meta, pre-Phoenix rising is still best.

 

Next you have to consider the lead time Chapter Approved requires. It will not touch new Space Marines it will consider pre-Space Marine 2.0. With that pre-Space Marine 2.0 some of the best lists for Chaos included Ahriman, demon princes, and demons, disco lords, FW dreads. Expect changes that won't go well in this meta at all. I'm expecting point increases for demon troops, TS HQs, and Disco lords, and our best FW choices too "balance" them which will make Chaos hurt even more in the space marine meta.

 

I'm not trying to make you despair just prepared to be disappointed when our newest band-aid doesnt actually help, like at all.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

....I think CA + Faith and Fury will put us on much more solid ground overall. I am expecting drops in several units....

Things to think about. Part 1 has been basically ignored by the eldar playing community. The rules are neat but not changing the eldar meta, pre-Phoenix rising is still best.

 

Next you have to consider the lead time Chapter Approved requires. It will not touch new Space Marines it will consider pre-Space Marine 2.0. With that pre-Space Marine 2.0 some of the best lists for Chaos included Ahriman, demon princes, and demons, disco lords, FW dreads. Expect changes that won't go well in this meta at all. I'm expecting point increases for demon troops, TS HQs, and Disco lords, and our best FW choices too "balance" them which will make Chaos hurt even more in the space marine meta.

 

I'm not trying to make you despair just prepared to be disappointed when our newest band-aid doesnt actually help, like at all.

 

 

And then other units come down yes? The meta isn't just "increase points of good units!" its also decrease units that are not used. 

 

Potential there for sure.  given that my lists are balanced overall (Semi-Competitive basically) I find that CA's usually help me a great deal. I don't have the time or money to keep up with the fluctuating 40k meta. 

 

For perspective my Thousand Sons collection has tons of infantry but as for tanks and other units I look at 1 of each. (Pred, engines, mutalith, and non troop vehicles) I don't tend to spam 1 option exactly for the reason above. Then again I play in a distinctly semi-competitive meta. Its not quite "casual" but its also not quite the beastly Iron-Hands and Flying Eldar spams the majority seem to deal with.

 

I imagine being a competitive player is hugely problematic and disheartening. It also bares mentioning: I almost *Never* soup so seeing daemon prince spam, and plauge bearer spam, and disco lord spam (are we sensing a theme?) be "nerfed" has minimal effect on me. If Ahriman and a Prince go up other things in my list are basically guaranteed to go down, so its about the same if were talking about what will and won't change. 

[TonyH122]

 

 Chaos has had a hard time the last year.

 

And 2019 was supposedly the 'Year of Chaos', according to GW marketing. In reality this was just to say we got a new Abaddon model.

 

Perhaps this just confirms it's best to avoid GW's attention.

[Excessus]

I don't like the "these units are bad so we'll make them cheaper" band-aid myself. Things like CSM shouldn't be so cheap so we'll buy them over cultists, they should have rules good enough to make us want to buy them over cultists. Carrot, not stick...

[techsoldaten]

 

 

 Chaos has had a hard time the last year.

 

And 2019 was supposedly the 'Year of Chaos', according to GW marketing. In reality this was just to say we got a new Abaddon model.

 

Perhaps this just confirms it's best to avoid GW's attention.

 

 

Well, it is a very nice model.

[nanosquid]

I don't like the "these units are bad so we'll make them cheaper" band-aid myself. Things like CSM shouldn't be so cheap so we'll buy them over cultists, they should have rules good enough to make us want to buy them over cultists. Carrot, not stick...

 

This right here is my biggest problem with the way both loyalists and chaos have been treated this edition. And you know what? The solution is already in place for loyalists. Make marines 2 wounds. Seriously, try playing a game sometime where you give power armored dudes 2w even if they aren't primaris. Hey, look at that, suddenly they play like marines should.

 

The fact that this is so obvious of a fix is why that rumor of 2w cult troops even appeared. There's no reason to believe GW would actually do that, though, because it would solve problems rather than sell plastic.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

 

 Chaos has had a hard time the last year.

 

And 2019 was supposedly the 'Year of Chaos', according to GW marketing. In reality this was just to say we got a new Abaddon model.

 

Perhaps this just confirms it's best to avoid GW's attention.

 

 

A whole new lineup of marines is "just the new Abbadon"? 

 

New Sorcerer.

New Apostle

Executioner.

Updated Marine

Updated Terminator

Greater Possessed

Updated Havoc

Updated Obliterators

Master of Possession

Venomcrawler

Lord Discordant.  

 

I think it HAS been a great year for Chaos. Is it the "best" we could have gotten? not by a long shot, but I think we made out like bandits in 2019 for the most part. 

 

Need a few more new kits (Zerk, Possessed, Noise Marine) but were almost an entirely new lineup of kits and unts. 

[Gederas]

 Chaos has had a hard time the last year.

And 2019 was supposedly the 'Year of Chaos', according to GW marketing. In reality this was just to say we got a new Abaddon model.

 

Perhaps this just confirms it's best to avoid GW's attention.

A whole new lineup of marines is "just the new Abbadon"? 

 

New Sorcerer.

New Apostle

Executioner.

Updated Marine

Updated Terminator

Greater Possessed

Updated Havoc

Updated Obliterators

Master of Possession

Venomcrawler

Lord Discordant.  

 

I think it HAS been a great year for Chaos. Is it the "best" we could have gotten? not by a long shot, but I think we made out like bandits in 2019 for the most part. 

 

Need a few more new kits (Zerk, Possessed, Noise Marine) but were almost an entirely new lineup of kits and unts.

And of those kits you named, FOUR of them are exclusive to Shadowspear/the new Start Collecting. 7 out of 11 isn't bad, but for units that are kind of important/useful to have more than one of, it's annoying to have to buy multiples of Shadowspear/the new Start Collecting for.

 

I'll say we got proper ones when GW releases an Obliterator/Mutilator, Venomcrawler and Greater Possessed multi-part kits and the Master of Possession by themselves. Because I want more Obliterators, but I don't want to keep buying the CSM half of Shadowspear to get them.

[darkseren1ty]

I don’t mean to be salty- but judging by warhammer community’s latest update, it seems the bulk of the rules are going to be for the black Templars. They did say there’s a lot of CSM “content” which probably means fluff. They did mention legion rules.. hopefully new and effective ones. Tbh, I don’t mind if most of the rules are for BT- as long as the meager CSM rules content is good. I don’t need new chars or models. I would like nice legion rules, a new psychic discipline (ideally one per legion- but let’s be realistic). Reworked legion rules with them affecting the whole legion. A couple strats, relics and WL traits to round things off.

 

I suppose the thing I am most hopeful for is reworked legion rules

[Kythnos]

I don’t mean to be salty- but judging by warhammer community’s latest update, it seems the bulk of the rules are going to be for the black Templars. They did say there’s a lot of CSM “content” which probably means fluff. They did mention legion rules.. hopefully new and effective ones. Tbh, I don’t mind if most of the rules are for BT- as long as the meager CSM rules content is good. I don’t need new chars or models. I would like nice legion rules, a new psychic discipline (ideally one per legion- but let’s be realistic). Reworked legion rules with them affecting the whole legion. A couple strats, relics and WL traits to round things Off.

As far as rumours go, your last sentence contains all that the legions will receive.

[Iron_Within]

*SNIP*

I think it HAS been a great year for Chaos. Is it the "best" we could have gotten? not by a long shot, but I think we made out like bandits in 2019 for the most part. 

 

Need a few more new kits (Zerk, Possessed, Noise Marine) but were almost an entirely new lineup of kits and unts. 

 

 

Hard disagree for different reasons.

We've gotten new kits, agreed.

But no new rules or resolving the issues that have been shackling Chaos Space Marines for over a decade.

I currently play as Raven Guard (having shelved my beloved Iron Warriors for the first time in 2 decades).

Raven Guard feel live Raven Guard, they play differently to Imperial Fists, I will make different unit selections and not feel punished because of it due to the support around from the rules. They feel distinct and appropriate to the fluff.

Chaos Space Marines, do not.

Playing as my Iron Warriors it has always been a square peg in a round hole trying to get them to do what they do in the fluff. 

They play, despite the difference in rules between Legions, they all play basically the same, and that means most utterly suck at it. 

There is one of two killer unit (in CSM over the years) and these are tanked up to the nines, whatever that may be and it all relies on getting that unit to where it needs to be, but all legions use the same killer unit, Space Marines do not.

The new releases will not change that.

[jgascoine011]

Atleast CSM have a few tricks up their sleaves. Yea your not as good as new space marines but then very few armies are.

What your legions dont feel or play differently to each other? Same with every other army. CSM have choices atleast. Look at necrons, eldar, dark eldar, etc. They are all so limited in what they can take, especially playing pure

 

And atleast you have recieved new units and rules.

Look at the state of deathguard right now. They were what, the 1st or 2nd codex to be released ?And havent been touched since.