Psychic Awakening 2 Chaos factions

[RapatoR]

At least GW is getting savaged in Facebook comments for not fixing any major issues/Legion traits etc. Make your voices heard brothers, whether by commenting or emailing GW directly

Well it WHC team that is getting "savaged"... And I would prefer if they got constructive feedback istead, which they could/would be more willing to pass to the rules department.

[Marshal Loss]

 

At least GW is getting savaged in Facebook comments for not fixing any major issues/Legion traits etc. Make your voices heard brothers, whether by commenting or emailing GW directly

Well it WHC team that is getting "savaged"... And I would prefer if they got constructive feedback istead, which they could/would be more willing to pass to the rules department.

 

 

There are plenty of constructive comments being thrown their way. Feel free to email the 40k FAQ team or add your voice to the mix if you are dissatisfied with how people are expressing their disappointment.

 

edit: I'm not being facetious here, I would encourage you to do so. And for the record by "savage" I am referring to the weight of opinion rather than abusive language, which I do not condone

[Aothaine]

I really like the Alpha Legion Stratagem, don't really like the warlord trait even though it is fluffy. 

 

Also, I'm confused with the "end this phase" statement on Gorefather. Does that mean if you roll a nat 6 you don't get to do any of your other attacks? Do the other hits not count? Anyone have any clarity on this?

[DreamIsCollapsing]

The Word Bearer Warlord trait is useless, unless.. we got, like Knight or Space marine a stratagem to get another Warlord trait for 1 CP.

Then : As Daemonic Whisper give you 1 CP (everyone use the reroll strat at some point during the game) + D3 CP : you will get 1+D3-1 : D3 Cp free. 

 

If we dont have such stratagem, it can at least be used with Vigilus special detachment. If you want that sweet +2 to charge roll from Raptorial Ost but dont have other great Warlord trait you can take it. But meh...

 

The WB stratagem : I'm just hoping we do get generic stratagem for CSM. And in those stratagem there is one who give +1 prayer for Apostle (limite to one use per battle). 

So with 1CP i can get a "level 2" apostle. 

And if im WB i can spend another CP to get a lvl 3 apostle ?!

 

The Night Lord strat is so fluff, and so great. I dont know if we got a way to have "can charge even if have fall back during the turn". But this on a Warp talon unit can be so devastating, you can paralyze a gunline without getting shooted to death. 

 

Iron warrior Warlord trait is solid : Warpsmith are garbage, GW need to understand they got to give something like a +1 to hit for Daemon machine around. 

But on an Apostle : you get a -1 to hit or 5++ save AND the chaos lord aura for Havok and tank on your backline without a chaos lord. 

 

Emperor's Childran stat is great, on bike, Terminator, possess or Daemon Prince. 

[Zeke]

I really like the Alpha Legion Stratagem, don't really like the warlord trait even though it is fluffy. 

 

Also, I'm confused with the "end this phase" statement on Gorefather. Does that mean if you roll a nat 6 you don't get to do any of your other attacks? Do the other hits not count? Anyone have any clarity on this?

 

Technically you roll each attack separately, so when you roll a 6 the specific attack would stop.  However most people just roll them all at the same time as to increase the speed of the game.  If you roll a 6, you inflict 3 mortal wounds, and the die is removed, not inflicting another regular wound.

[Sersi]

 

I've never been able to figure out GW's motives for things, it literally seems to be at random.  I know they've stated that models are designed first and rules are added later (which is silly to me but whatever) but it seems like we get anomalies like CSM where the range was redone (mostly) and the rules were basically untouched despite that being a good chance to fix them.

 

I knew as soon as the new Chaos Space Marine kit wasn't Primaris, that it was going to be a rough road ahead, and that's simply because now both armies are similar, yet one is objectively better at everything. They'll try to bandaid it as much as possible, but they don't ever get where to put them. We're a good 5 years out from a solution now, and it's unfortunate.

 

 

I'm sure GW would tell us that actual Space Marines are no longer the focus of CSM. While C:SM and CSM have a shared history they have diverged greatly since the Heresy.  CSM is now all about Daemon Engines and CSM Daemons.  We just have to accept this truth.

[Aothaine]

 

Technically you roll each attack separately, so when you roll a 6 the specific attack would stop.  However most people just roll them all at the same time as to increase the speed of the game.  If you roll a 6, you inflict 3 mortal wounds, and the die is removed, not inflicting another regular wound.

 

 

Ohhh right I forgot about each attack being rolled alone. Okay this makes more sense. So the attack just ends up doing 3 mortal wounds and you don't need to roll to wound for the normal dmg. Interesting. Thank you!

[Sersi]

 

I like what I can see of the Night Lords, this article feels incredibly rushed and lacklustre though. Black templars and sisters get individual articles and we just got kind of hashed together as an afterthought?

 

Such is the way of Chaos.

 

Being an afterthought, that is. lol

 

 

We are NPC's once you accept it, then everything Chaos makes sense.

[Lord_Starscream]

I posted to it, for what little good it'll do.

 

Again. This isn't something PA could fix anyway. I even think a new codex couldn't fix Chaos Space Marines at the moment. The problems go beyond that, they don't just shift whole models to have completely different rules than before, they add some special rules, change points values, ect. The core of the army is at best, barely functional, and at an honest take, useless.

 

 

I've never been able to figure out GW's motives for things, it literally seems to be at random.  I know they've stated that models are designed first and rules are added later (which is silly to me but whatever) but it seems like we get anomalies like CSM where the range was redone (mostly) and the rules were basically untouched despite that being a good chance to fix them.

 

I knew as soon as the new Chaos Space Marine kit wasn't Primaris, that it was going to be a rough road ahead, and that's simply because now both armies are similar, yet one is objectively better at everything. They'll try to bandaid it as much as possible, but they don't ever get where to put them. We're a good 5 years out from a solution now, and it's unfortunate.

 

 

I'm sure GW would tell us that actual Space Marines are no longer the focus of CSM. While C:SM and CSM have a shared history but have diverged greatly since the Heresy.  CSM is now all about Daemon Engines and CSM Daemons.  We just have to except this truth.

 

 

 

*accept

 

And armies of Daemon Engines are fine. Except that's really quite the one trick pony.

[Wayniac]

I posted to it, for what little good it'll do.

 

Again. This isn't something PA could fix anyway. I even think a new codex couldn't fix Chaos Space Marines at the moment. The problems go beyond that, they don't just shift whole models to have completely different rules than before, they add some special rules, change points values, ect. The core of the army is at best, barely functional, and at an honest take, useless.

 

 

I've never been able to figure out GW's motives for things, it literally seems to be at random.  I know they've stated that models are designed first and rules are added later (which is silly to me but whatever) but it seems like we get anomalies like CSM where the range was redone (mostly) and the rules were basically untouched despite that being a good chance to fix them.

 

I knew as soon as the new Chaos Space Marine kit wasn't Primaris, that it was going to be a rough road ahead, and that's simply because now both armies are similar, yet one is objectively better at everything. They'll try to bandaid it as much as possible, but they don't ever get where to put them. We're a good 5 years out from a solution now, and it's unfortunate.

 

 

I'm sure GW would tell us that actual Space Marines are no longer the focus of CSM. While C:SM and CSM have a shared history but have diverged greatly since the Heresy.  CSM is now all about Daemon Engines and CSM Daemons.  We just have to except this truth.

 

 

 

*accept

 

And armies of Daemon Engines are fine. Except that's really quite the one trick pony.

And a lot of that is due to the design of the game.  It's like they are designing Chaos still for an edition of years ago, not the way 8th edition has been.  I wrote a rather long post basically saying that I don't get how someone in the studio didn't look at this (even Vigilus) compared to the new Marine book (which they had to have been working on around the same time) and say wait one is much stronger than the other.  Even a cursory glance would reveal that Chaos is woefully underpowered, but we didn't even get that.

 

At this point I can't think it's anything other than intentional.  Either deliberate because they really bought into the "Chaos has to suffer for turning from the light of the Emperor" jokes, or because they just really have no idea how to create a Chaos army, especially since it should really be like 4 different books (Traitor Legions, Renegade Chapters, Daemons, Cultists/Traitor Guard/Mutants) not one smushed together.

[Lord_Starscream]

 

And a lot of that is due to the design of the game.  It's like they are designing Chaos still for an edition of years ago, not the way 8th edition has been.  I wrote a rather long post basically saying that I don't get how someone in the studio didn't look at this (even Vigilus) compared to the new Marine book (which they had to have been working on around the same time) and say wait one is much stronger than the other.  Even a cursory glance would reveal that Chaos is woefully underpowered, but we didn't even get that.

 

At this point I can't think it's anything other than intentional.  Either deliberate because they really bought into the "Chaos has to suffer for turning from the light of the Emperor" jokes, or because they just really have no idea how to create a Chaos army, especially since it should really be like 4 different books (Traitor Legions, Renegade Chapters, Daemons, Cultists/Traitor Guard/Mutants) not one smushed together.

 

 

I think it's genuinely a combination of factors.

 

They don't want the core CSM to be as good as the Primaris army.

 

Which means they're constantly trying to use alternative methods to make the army "work", but that all just turns the army into a giant gimmick. Five years folks. Five years before anything remotely close to 'good' happens for this faction :(

[Kain Mor]

This article was so laughably phoned in I’m not even mad about it anymore. They mashed all the legions into one page, showing some depressingly mediocre content and then pretending like the book will change our lives.

 

Just look at that iron warriors warlord trait... just pathetic.

[Aothaine]

I don't think GW designs their rules for competitive play but rather for being fluffy. It can explain a lot. Besides. you all knew what you were signing up for when you decided to leave the light of the Emperor. (hue hue hue)

 

 

Seriously, aside from that. I would bet money that they are working on rebuilding the entire chaos faction to work like Space Marines. Having a core book then supplements for all of the legions and renegades. We've been dealing with GW's release schedule for years and know that things will come in time. They just started releasing the new updated books for 8th 3 months ago and just look at how much content they have released. GW is moving at a pace never before seen. I think this is something to keep in mind. They have released potentially 6 codices in a three month period. They are almost out of loyalists. They will have to do CSM and Xenos next. Good times are coming. I suggest patience and not spitting fire as people often do. The releases in this event books have never been anything grand so expecting it to be seems wrong in my opinion.

 

My mouth waters at the idea of getting a World Eaters supplement. Literally watering right now lol! I'm ready for it. It is coming. Mark my words. Eventually we will have a World Eaters Codex/Supplement. It will be glorious! It will honor Khorne! Loyalists will bemoan the tools and toys we get.

[RapatoR]

 

 

 

At least GW is getting savaged in Facebook comments for not fixing any major issues/Legion traits etc. Make your voices heard brothers, whether by commenting or emailing GW directly

Well it WHC team that is getting "savaged"... And I would prefer if they got constructive feedback istead, which they could/would be more willing to pass to the rules department.

There are plenty of constructive comments being thrown their way. Feel free to email the 40k FAQ team or add your voice to the mix if you are dissatisfied with how people are expressing their disappointment.

 

edit: I'm not being facetious here, I would encourage you to do so. And for the record by "savage" I am referring to the weight of opinion rather than abusive language, which I do not condone

Ok my bad then, I didn't get your meaning.

[Wayniac]

This article was so laughably phoned in I’m not even mad about it anymore. They mashed all the legions into one page, showing some depressingly mediocre content and then pretending like the book will change our lives.

 

Just look at that iron warriors warlord trait... just pathetic.

I mean the thing is, it's not that bad.  Just combined with everything else it's pathetic because it fixes nothing.

[Iron_Within]

So general comment.

That article is fricking lazy as all hell.

The Noise Marines are the old Marine sculpts!

 

Some people saying the Iron Warriors Warlord Trait is good. 

But I don't.

It's the Imperial Fists "Eye of Hypnoth", but worse. Which is bloody typical to make something for CSM but just not as good as SM.

 

The Word Bearers rules are just a kick in the nuts to go along with that slap in the face they just gave you.

oh cool, Word Bearers can have Dark Apostles that can take two prayers!... which ANY Space Marine Chapter can now do with Chaplains for 1 CP. Seriously,  you Dev team on that one you inconsiderate . Or was that the sales team trying to hawk mroe Chaplain models?

[Excessus]

Since it's still building on the old codex I'm not expecting any miracles.

 

The explody-thing I get is a rather neat option.

 

I like the night lords ones too, and the IW one could be nice as well.

 

But whoa, that EC cloak...rerolling everything in cc is nice...I guess you could use that to farm those MWs from the WT...

[Sersi]

 

 

And a lot of that is due to the design of the game.  It's like they are designing Chaos still for an edition of years ago, not the way 8th edition has been.  I wrote a rather long post basically saying that I don't get how someone in the studio didn't look at this (even Vigilus) compared to the new Marine book (which they had to have been working on around the same time) and say wait one is much stronger than the other.  Even a cursory glance would reveal that Chaos is woefully underpowered, but we didn't even get that.

 

At this point I can't think it's anything other than intentional.  Either deliberate because they really bought into the "Chaos has to suffer for turning from the light of the Emperor" jokes, or because they just really have no idea how to create a Chaos army, especially since it should really be like 4 different books (Traitor Legions, Renegade Chapters, Daemons, Cultists/Traitor Guard/Mutants) not one smushed together.

 

 

I think it's genuinely a combination of factors.

 

They don't want the core CSM to be as good as the Primaris army.

 

Which means they're constantly trying to use alternative methods to make the army "work", but that all just turns the army into a giant gimmick. Five years folks. Five years before anything remotely close to 'good' happens for this faction

 

 

I've come to the realization that GW is never going to give Chaos Space Marine players parity with Space Marines. The difference in power levels is just to great for it not to be intentional.

[Wayniac]

 

 

 

And a lot of that is due to the design of the game.  It's like they are designing Chaos still for an edition of years ago, not the way 8th edition has been.  I wrote a rather long post basically saying that I don't get how someone in the studio didn't look at this (even Vigilus) compared to the new Marine book (which they had to have been working on around the same time) and say wait one is much stronger than the other.  Even a cursory glance would reveal that Chaos is woefully underpowered, but we didn't even get that.

 

At this point I can't think it's anything other than intentional.  Either deliberate because they really bought into the "Chaos has to suffer for turning from the light of the Emperor" jokes, or because they just really have no idea how to create a Chaos army, especially since it should really be like 4 different books (Traitor Legions, Renegade Chapters, Daemons, Cultists/Traitor Guard/Mutants) not one smushed together.

 

 

I think it's genuinely a combination of factors.

 

They don't want the core CSM to be as good as the Primaris army.

 

Which means they're constantly trying to use alternative methods to make the army "work", but that all just turns the army into a giant gimmick. Five years folks. Five years before anything remotely close to 'good' happens for this faction

 

 

I've come to the realization that GW is never going to give Chaos Space Marine players parity with Space Marines. The difference in power levels is just to great for it not to be intentional.

 

I think part of the issue is there doesn't seem to be anyone on the design team now who genuinely plays and focuses on Chaos.  Back in the day we had guys like Andy Chambers or Pete Haines and you could tell they actually enjoyed the army and wanted it to be good.  Most of the team now seem to primarily be Imperium, with some Xenos and while they almost certainly have a Chaos army (I'd expect they collect and play various) it's not their focus.  So that results in Chaos getting an afterthought on rules while the others seem to get more lavish attention.

 

But yeah.  It's 100% intentional.  It can't not be intentional at this point.  Even the most basic glance at this book and say Vigilus versus the Marine codex 2.0 should have sent up red flags that one was woefully underpowered.  And yet, nothing.  So either they aren't capable of the most basic smoke tests in their books, or they were fully aware and didn't care.

[Aothaine]

 

So either they aren't capable of the most basic smoke tests in their books, or they were fully aware and didn't care.

 

Another option is that they are testing new rules with the Space Marines right now to make sure that changes to the CSM are fair when their next update hits. I understand the frustration. But GW is doing a hell of a lot better now than in the past. They've done enough to earn my trust. Give it some time. This is a new era of 8th right now. They have had 3 months to release books. Books that are generally written and finished months before they are even sold. If the next major chaos space marines release is the same I might join your camp. But I really doubt they are not going to hit a home run with the new CSM dex and supplements. Chaos is the main enemy of 8th. It would be silly for them to not update the line and rules once they are finished with the Space Marines re-vamp.

[Midnight Brotherhood]

They actually replied to my comment confirming nothing has been done or changed with the legion traits, not even making them army wide. They said, quote "there is a wealth of great updates for your Heretic Astartes to get stuck into".

 

I agree with what others have said, the head office and rules writer teams are clearly dominated with an Imperial bias. It's not even funny at this point, it's just sad.

[Lord_Starscream]

 

 

So either they aren't capable of the most basic smoke tests in their books, or they were fully aware and didn't care.

 

Another option is that they are testing new rules with the Space Marines right now to make sure that changes to the CSM are fair when their next update hits. I understand the frustration. But GW is doing a hell of a lot better now than in the past. They've done enough to earn my trust. Give it some time. This is a new era of 8th right now. They have had 3 months to release books. Books that are generally written and finished months before they are even sold. If the next major chaos space marines release is the same I might join your camp. But I really doubt they are not going to hit a home run with the new CSM dex and supplements. Chaos is the main enemy of 8th. It would be silly for them to not update the line and rules once they are finished with the Space Marines re-vamp.

 

 

 

I think they genuinely want CSM to be different than Space Marines, but don't understand, or know how to do it. I genuinely think its gross incompetence, combined with apathy. It's not intentional, it's them trying to do something with an army that's never worked in the past, and won't work now.

 

You can see this in every organization. They get a boner for wanting something to smurf a certain way, it doesn't smurf, and they keep pushing at it thinking their :cuss doesn't smell until it's so painful even they can't turn a blind eye to it.

[Raven1]

 

 

 

Technically you roll each attack separately, so when you roll a 6 the specific attack would stop. However most people just roll them all at the same time as to increase the speed of the game. If you roll a 6, you inflict 3 mortal wounds, and the die is removed, not inflicting another regular wound.

 

Ohhh right I forgot about each attack being rolled alone. Okay this makes more sense. So the attack just ends up doing 3 mortal wounds and you don't need to roll to wound for the normal dmg. Interesting. Thank you!

So does that mean it bypasses saviour proticals on Tau drones?

[Marshal Loss]

 

If the next major chaos space marines release is the same I might join your camp. But I really doubt they are not going to hit a home run with the new CSM dex and supplements. Chaos is the main enemy of 8th. It would be silly for them to not update the line and rules once they are finished with the Space Marines re-vamp.

 

For far too long CSM fans have been told to "wait for the next supplement", "wait for the next campaign book", "wait for the next codex". No more. If GW cared about addressing these issues they'd release updated Legion traits & some kind of mono-CSM doctrine system in an errata to hold the ship steady until our next major book. Fans have been asking for traits to be addressed for quite some time, and we saw identical comments surrounding the Vigilus release(s) earlier this year. GW is happy enough to make a big show of listening to the fans when it suits them, and the tide of sentiment is overwhelmingly negative here.

 

We've been the arch-enemy since 40k's inception. 8th has marked the beginning of a new golden age in model releases for us, but the disparity between us and loyalists has, as of this moment in time, never been greater. I'm not too pleased that I have to pay for another book (with CA19 less than a month away) that doesn't fix issues GW have known about for quite some time.

 

With the utmost respect: what exactly have they done to earn your trust? Serious question. I trust that GW will continue to give us amazing models from time to time, but in terms of rules, this latest update really is just par for the course in the post-2007/4th ed era.

[Wayniac]

 

 

If the next major chaos space marines release is the same I might join your camp. But I really doubt they are not going to hit a home run with the new CSM dex and supplements. Chaos is the main enemy of 8th. It would be silly for them to not update the line and rules once they are finished with the Space Marines re-vamp.

 

For far too long CSM fans have been told to "wait for the next supplement", "wait for the next campaign book", "wait for the next codex". No more. If GW cared about addressing these issues they'd release updated Legion traits & some kind of mono-CSM doctrine system in an errata to hold the ship steady until our next major book. Fans have been asking for traits to be addressed for quite some time, and we saw identical comments surrounding the Vigilus release(s) earlier this year. GW is happy enough to make a big show of listening to the fans when it suits them, and the tide of sentiment is overwhelmingly negative here.

 

We've been the arch-enemy since 40k's inception. 8th has marked the beginning of a new golden age in model releases for us, but the disparity between us and loyalists has, as of this moment in time, never been greater.

 

With the utmost respect: what exactly have they done to earn your trust? Serious question.

 

I mean pretty much this.  Ever since 4th edition (the end of the 3.5 golden age) it's been "wait until the next book", "chaos is due for an update", "wait until the next supplement".  At what point do you stop accepting next time?  I really really hate to use the analogy but I can't think of anything else:  It's like a domestic abuse case where you keep falling for "next time" over and over again even as you keep getting punched in the face.

 

When does "it'll be better next time" stop becoming an excuse??