New Mephiston/Psychic awakening p3

[Panzer]

 

 

Unfortunate that we don't gain access to the best utility character in the game i.e. chapter master. (will have to continue to house rule this stratagem).

But we now have access to some really fun and exciting new things. Combat doctrines being #1 and Veteran Intercessors #2 Some of the new relics are actually very interesting. Quake Bolts allowing for 2+ hits with thunder hammers and Powerfists as well as combinations from other characters and abilities.

Are Veteran Intercessors confirmed?

Yes, Black_Sky posted a picture on the previous page I believe.

 

Edit: Ninja’d and just scroll up a few posts, mate ^^

 

 

Geez ... that makes DC Intercessors look even more ridiculous in comparison. What were they thinking?

[Blindhamster]

 

 

 

Unfortunate that we don't gain access to the best utility character in the game i.e. chapter master. (will have to continue to house rule this stratagem).

But we now have access to some really fun and exciting new things. Combat doctrines being #1 and Veteran Intercessors #2 Some of the new relics are actually very interesting. Quake Bolts allowing for 2+ hits with thunder hammers and Powerfists as well as combinations from other characters and abilities.

Are Veteran Intercessors confirmed?

Yes, Black_Sky posted a picture on the previous page I believe.

 

Edit: Ninja’d and just scroll up a few posts, mate ^^

 

 

Geez ... that makes DC Intercessors look even more ridiculous in comparison. What were they thinking?

 

 

I suppose... Veteran Intercessors DO cost CP to get, so there is that?

 

 

[Panzer]

 

 

 

 

Unfortunate that we don't gain access to the best utility character in the game i.e. chapter master. (will have to continue to house rule this stratagem).

But we now have access to some really fun and exciting new things. Combat doctrines being #1 and Veteran Intercessors #2 Some of the new relics are actually very interesting. Quake Bolts allowing for 2+ hits with thunder hammers and Powerfists as well as combinations from other characters and abilities.

Are Veteran Intercessors confirmed?

Yes, Black_Sky posted a picture on the previous page I believe.

 

Edit: Ninja’d and just scroll up a few posts, mate ^^

 

 

Geez ... that makes DC Intercessors look even more ridiculous in comparison. What were they thinking?

 

 

I suppose... Veteran Intercessors DO cost CP to get, so there is that?

 

 

 

 

I'm fine with that though. It doesn't mean I need to get even more Troops units for a unit that's only slightly better than the Troops units I already have. Plus Veteran Intercessors actually get one more TH/PF/PS attack than DC Intercessors so they are even deadlier. :D 

[SnorriSnorrison]

People cried for DC Intercessors, they gave them DC Intercessors.

I actually don’t even care that the unit is stillborn, since they’re slower than Jump Packs anyways. And they don’t get to have all the cool stuff like chainswords for every guy or hand flamers, powerfists even.

 

The lack of jump packs mainly are off-putting, though.

[Blindhamster]

People cried for DC Intercessors, they gave them DC Intercessors.

I actually don’t even care that the unit is stillborn, since they’re slower than Jump Packs anyways. And they don’t get to have all the cool stuff like chainswords for every guy or hand flamers, powerfists even.

 

The lack of jump packs mainly are off-putting, though.

 

I'll probably do a unit, just for the fun of modelling them. Might be fun to do 5 + Chaplain in an impulsor. If they can have the additional melee weapon in  5 man squad - that works out okay. Just for the fun

 

 

Veteran intercessors will ride in a repulsor probably though.

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

People cried for DC Intercessors, they gave them DC Intercessors.

I actually don’t even care that the unit is stillborn, since they’re slower than Jump Packs anyways. And they don’t get to have all the cool stuff like chainswords for every guy or hand flamers, powerfists even.

The lack of jump packs mainly are off-putting, though.

 

 

I'll probably do a unit, just for the fun of modelling them. Might be fun to do 5 + Chaplain in an impulsor. If they can have the additional melee weapon in  5 man squad - that works out okay. Just for the fun

 

 

Veteran intercessors will ride in a repulsor probably though.

I’d go with the auto-bolt rifles personally. They can advance and shoot at least, so getting around to clear an objective is a bit easier with new Red Thirst.

Yeah, I understand the reasoning. They’ll look pretty cool I’m certain, but they couldn’t replace power-armoured DC in my opinion, ever.

[Panzer]

I'm doing a unit too just to have some visual variation in my Primaris army but that's it. 

[Aztek]

I'm doing a unit too just to have some visual variation in my Primaris army but that's it. 

What about Proxying Death Company Intercessors as regular Intercessors!? We've come full circle!

Edited November 30, 2019 by Aztek

[Neuralshock]

My hype levels are nearing critical mass, we basically have a free movement phase in charging and assault phase with all of the different ways we get 6 inch heroic interventions, 6 inch pile ins and consolidates and the old wording of honor the chapter.

 

Rip and tear

 

I hope that comboing FT's with BA doesn't pop the super doctrine (even if it did, big whoop) because I can see packing a no overwatch Libby dread with Angels wing smash cap and some FT death company perhaps.

[Panzer]

 

I'm doing a unit too just to have some visual variation in my Primaris army but that's it. 

What about Proxying Death Company Intercessors as regular Intercessors!? We've come full circle!

 

 

What about no?

[Indefragable]

I think regular Bolt Rifles are "best" for DC Intercessors, personally. That gives you the flexibility to sit on Objectives (what Intercessors are one of the best units in the game for) and shoot stuff then when enemies get within ~12", you move forward and punch stuff. Auto bolt rifles risks shooting yourself out of charge distance. It's a minor detail and I don't think you can really go wrong, but something to think about. Stalker rifles are out for DC Intercessors, I think we can all agree one edge case is DC Intercessors with Stalkers sitting on backfield obj milking Transhuman Physiology and the 5+++ strategem to hold at all costs....but those strats are probably way better used in more direct conflict.

 

Listening to Winter SEO's review of the book (it's a single image with him talking the whole time). Couple thoughts:

 

Special Issue Wargear:

-Quake bolts: basically, an enemy unit that is ?hit/wounded? (unclear) by these then becomes +1 To Hit for BA in the following Fight phase. This has crazy sneaky potential...

-Fleshripper Grenades: a model's Frag Grenades become 6" Assault 3 S5 AP-3 D:2. Holy

-Icon of something something: re-roll any dice for Charge rolls for units within 3". I think we're gonna see alot of Smash Bros and Banner Bros.... (2x Capts, 1x w/ Angel's Wing 1x w/ fall-back-and-charge-with-additional-+1-charge relics, then 3x banner dudes, 1x Sang Ancient w/ the +2" move to jump units and the other with this Icon for re-rollable charges and then yet another with the Classic Standard of Sacrifice....

 

...Sanguinary Guard are starting to sound how their fluff depicts them:

-+1 To Wound and Charge from Red Thirst

-full re-rolls being near Warlord

-1 To Hit w/ Death Mask strat

-re-rolling To Wound and Ignoring cover on Angelus boltguns w/ that Strat, and are AP-2 in Tactical Doctrine

-another Strat that counts all Damage rolls of 1 as 2

-re-roll 1's To Wound from Sanguinary Ancient or LT

-+2 to jump pack movement from new Banner relic

-5+++ from Standard of Sacrifice

-re-rollable charges from new Icon special issue wargear

-4A each Turn 3 onwards, 5A if you put the Sanguinor nearby (which is my go-to move with them)

 

That's the best comeback of a Death Star since Return of the Jedi

 

 

Those grenades though....

 

 

Edit: spelling and link

Edited November 30, 2019 by Indefragable

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

I totally want to do a slash captain with fleshrippers, Master Artisan on a pair of lightning claws, and Death Visions. Charge the enemy with some cheap sacrificial unit to eat overwatch, and then frape the enemy. Edited November 30, 2019 by Captain Smashy Pants

[Blindhamster]

In theory, death visions should now be available to primaris characters as well seeing as primaris get the black rage now haha. It wont be but it should:P

[Panzer]

I think regular Bolt Rifles are "best" for DC Intercessors, personally. That gives you the flexibility to sit on Objectives (what Intercessors are one of the best units in the game for) and shoot stuff then when enemies get within ~12", you move forward and punch stuff. Auto bolt rifles risks shooting yourself out of charge distance. It's a minor detail and I don't think you can really go wrong, but something to think about. 

 

You don't have to shoot the unit you are about to charge. With 24" range you should easily have other things in range. :D 

[durdle-durdle]

So if I want to get Into blood Angel's do I need the codex, this book, the faqs, AND chapter approved?

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

So if I want to get Into blood Angel's do I need the codex, this book, the faqs, AND chapter approved?

Short answer: yes.

The truth is, you would really only need the codex and PA3 as CA is really just for point adjustments which you can find on apps like Battlescribe.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

So if I want to get Into blood Angel's do I need the codex, this book, the faqs, AND chapter approved?

You definitely want this book.

[Aothaine]

So far from the reviews I've seen I really think that Blood Angels can sacrifice being a mono army. The only thing you lose is +1A in the Assault Doctrine. Good for sure. But we're playing an army that already has a massive amount attacks. Besides, the same argument on why the White Scars are not as good as they could be can be used here for their combat doctrine. You have to have elements of your list designed to fight still alive on turn three. There are a few ways to do this. But I'm not entirely sure it is worth it to starve yourself of an important unit.

 

Watched Tabletop Tactics new Blood Angels batrep, free on youtube btw, and the 15-man Death Company easily makes it into combat and smashes around 30 genestealers and helps wipe a 3 base ripper swarm on turn 1 before they are pretty much wiped out on Tyranid turn 1. They were not exactly kitted out correctly imho. The Chef took Thunder Hammers in the unit and then charged 1W genestealers. I really think when building a list that will include Death Company and wanting them to smash into enemy lines on turn 1, you need to kit them for clearing hordes. Chainswords and Boltguns all around. They are going to go in, smash something(s) and then get smashed. Just like they did in DoB when Dante released them. I love that they play exactly like they read. But if I was going to kit them out with heavier weapons I would most likely deep strike them on turn 2-3 to help clean up what is left.

 

Onto DC Intercessors. They are in a strange place right now for sure. But I think they will be quite valuable and work almost as well as our first-born DC. Take them in 10-man squads, Forlorn Fury to advance and charge before the start of the game, then move again to help them get into a position of a possible charge. They might be better for a army built around T2 though. I think they will have a place, it will just take some testing to find out where they fit into the list.

 

When it comes to build lists with this new information though I'm not even sure we need to stay mono. Getting +1 attack in the assault phase is pretty nice and you can build your army around that to make an army that hammers on T3 fairly decently with the access to jump packs that Blood Angels have but I'm not sure it is the best move competitively. There are a few army concepts I think Blood Angels players are going to want to test though for sure. Pure Phobos is clearly a decent option right now. Maybe not the best, but decent. But I also think that Blood Angels rules are designed to use both first-born and Primaris.

 

What do you all think? Is dumping the Combat Doctrine to make use of other goodies like the Flesh Tearer's no over-watch WL trait a good idea? Or do you think running solo Blood Angels is the option?

 

All phobos? First-born and Primaris mixed? All Primaris?

[Loishy]

 

You can bet your bottom dollar that I'm going to do some:D

Sanguinary priest DOESN'T have the Angel's of death rule :/ interesting. Wonder if it was intentional or just a mistake?!

 

 

 

I hope so... 

 

Otherwise no combat doctrine with a priest.

[Chronos1985]

 

 

You can bet your bottom dollar that I'm going to do some:D

Sanguinary priest DOESN'T have the Angel's of death rule :/ interesting. Wonder if it was intentional or just a mistake?!

 

 

 

I hope so... 

 

Otherwise no combat doctrine with a priest.

 

That's likely a typo. Probably will; be FAQ'd back in.

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

So far from the reviews I've seen I really think that Blood Angels can sacrifice being a mono army. The only thing you lose is +1A in the Assault Doctrine. Good for sure. But we're playing an army that already has a massive amount attacks. Besides, the same argument on why the White Scars are not as good as they could be can be used here for their combat doctrine. You have to have elements of your list designed to fight still alive on turn three. There are a few ways to do this. But I'm not entirely sure it is worth it to starve yourself of an important unit.

 

Watched Tabletop Tactics new Blood Angels batrep, free on youtube btw, and the 15-man Death Company easily makes it into combat and smashes around 30 genestealers and helps wipe a 3 base ripper swarm on turn 1 before they are pretty much wiped out on Tyranid turn 1. They were not exactly kitted out correctly imho. The Chef took Thunder Hammers in the unit and then charged 1W genestealers. I really think when building a list that will include Death Company and wanting them to smash into enemy lines on turn 1, you need to kit them for clearing hordes. Chainswords and Boltguns all around. They are going to go in, smash something(s) and then get smashed. Just like they did in DoB when Dante released them. I love that they play exactly like they read. But if I was going to kit them out with heavier weapons I would most likely deep strike them on turn 2-3 to help clean up what is left.

 

Onto DC Intercessors. They are in a strange place right now for sure. But I think they will be quite valuable and work almost as well as our first-born DC. Take them in 10-man squads, Forlorn Fury to advance and charge before the start of the game, then move again to help them get into a position of a possible charge. They might be better for a army built around T2 though. I think they will have a place, it will just take some testing to find out where they fit into the list.

 

When it comes to build lists with this new information though I'm not even sure we need to stay mono. Getting +1 attack in the assault phase is pretty nice and you can build your army around that to make an army that hammers on T3 fairly decently with the access to jump packs that Blood Angels have but I'm not sure it is the best move competitively. There are a few army concepts I think Blood Angels players are going to want to test though for sure. Pure Phobos is clearly a decent option right now. Maybe not the best, but decent. But I also think that Blood Angels rules are designed to use both first-born and Primaris.

 

What do you all think? Is dumping the Combat Doctrine to make use of other goodies like the Flesh Tearer's no over-watch WL trait a good idea? Or do you think running solo Blood Angels is the option?

 

All phobos? First-born and Primaris mixed? All Primaris?

So this is my greatest fear. That all these bonuses, much like the red thirst in our latest codex, really amount to nothing.

As far as BA are concerned, I feel that if we have help for movement and maneuverability, then our CC can be used and brought to bear on our opponents. But if we struggle to cover the space between us and our targets: same old story?

[Aothaine]

 

So this is my greatest fear. That all these bonuses, much like the red thirst in our latest codex, really amount to nothing.

As far as BA are concerned, I feel that if we have help for movement and maneuverability, then our CC can be used and brought to bear on our opponents. But if we struggle to cover the space between us and our targets: same old story?

 

The new rules for Blood Angels and Flesh Tearers are outstanding! Blood Angels are scary again in a really good way. Red Thirst is absolutely gold! +1 to wound is so amazingly strong it is silly. Sang Priests have Jump Packs now and can keep up with assault units giving out that precious +1S which then lets all Blood Angels under that effect wound other space marines on 2+. It's great! I've just seen this approach with GW trying to push mono chapter armies but find that it might not be the case for Blood Angels. Which is perfectly fine! There is an argument to be made that the +1A in T3+ is a great addition as well. I'm just not convinced because most units/vehicles are dwindled by T3. I'm thinking the way around this is to maybe hold a unit like the 15-man DC with JPs in reserve and drop them in on T3. Primaris are sturdy enough that they should be able to weather the storm until then. 

 

It is not a bad bonus. It is just something that is not in effect until late game, but you can build lists around it. Maybe that is what GW wants Blood Angels to do. Transports instead of Jump Packs. T1: Move up, smoke/shoot T2: unload, shoot, maybe assault T3: shoot assault?

 

Shooting armies are going to love it. Most assault-based armies want to be in the enemy lines T1 or T2 at the latest. You risk being shot off the board otherwise. But there are a lot of things going on with the new book and the army that I might not see or understand. I had my mind blown a few weeks ago by BFF who is using Cataphractii very successfully in a time where I thought Terminators in general were nearly useless. I'm just throwing out ideas right now to get people to think about ways to use these new rules and how to build competitive forces with the Blood Angels and Flesh Tearers.   

[Panzer]

 

It is not a bad bonus. It is just something that is not in effect until late game, but you can build lists around it. Maybe that is what GW wants Blood Angels to do. Transports instead of Jump Packs. T1: Move up, smoke/shoot T2: unload, shoot, maybe assault T3: shoot assault?

 

 

Probably a mix of both. T1 move up and/or shoot, T2 drop&shoot&charge and move/unload and/or shoot, T3 move and shoot and assault. Your army shouldn't consist of 100% of the one or the other. BA always worked best with a mixed approach.

Edited November 30, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Hintzy]

I'm in agreement with the folks who suggested our super doctrine can be used to compensate for casualties from previous turns.  I agree it's fairly superfluous on its own.  After watching several reviews, including the aforementioned TTT report, my current plan is to unleash my jump troop bombs on turn 2 and just use the +1 attack from turn 3 to mitigate casualties from those squads.  

 

At this point I'm planning on running a triple battalion to have enough CP's for all of the fantastic stratagems from both books to support a DC blob with a character chaplain, a SG bomb with character support, a smash captain, and a Lib Dread.  I'm planning on at least 4 squads of troops to be Primaris to help weather the storm of first/second turn shooting along with scouts which can generally be tucked away out of LoS.  It's a lot of points in troops, but all of those CPs should make my threat units exceptionally dangerous and a bit more durable.

 

Anybody else have plans yet?

[Blindhamster]

I feel like maybe the point is that, as panzer said, when it comes down to it, what it's really going to do. Is not aid death stars, but make our dwindled units out perform other armies at that point.

 

It means that even a 3 man intercessor squad has 13+ attacks 5 of which are from a "proper" melee weapon. Itll still be a legitimate threat to certain armies, particularly because of the +1 to wound we get.

 

I think the thing that's different, is the armies with an assault doctrine benefit (scars, blood Angel's, black templars) wont be as inclined to build around their doctrines, instead the doctrines just provide a boost late game when other armies are likely to be flagging