Psychic Awakening 2 rumours

[Acebaur]

Guys, if you can't play nice, I'm gonna have to lock this thread.....again...for the third time.  Be respectful. Whether you like normal marines or Primaris or a mix of both, you need to remember that others may not feel the same way. 

 

 

 

 

Now, to the question at hand. Yes the BT sprue is dated, but there is a lot of great usable parts on it, namely the shoulder pads and heads(both of which fit both Primaris and classic) and the accessory bitz. Things that I have stopped using are mainly the weapons with a few exceptions and the torsos. This is because the chains are bulky by today's modeling standards. Both of those things are also heavy utilized across my army and I want something different. 

 

We will likely not see an upgrade sprue with tabards for primaris because of the way the torsos are molded now. When the original kit was produced bodies were standardized with a front half and  back half and everything was the same. Primaris are not that way, they are basically multipart mono pose kits. Making a generic tabard to fit multiple bodies is basically impossible. 

[Marshal Reinhard]

Now, I think the only way we'll ever see tabards on Primaris models is if there's a kit is designed from the ground up with one. Given that there's been virtually no chapter specific Primaris units at all, save for perhaps Calgars bodyguards, this pretty much means we won't see anything like that for a long while yet. Not while they're adding generic new units and armor types that can be used by anyone. Only when that's been fully explored, then maybe? But that might most likely be many many years away.

 

That said nothing prevents GW from making a Primaris upgrade kit in the new style (Which would obviously still lack tabards). Better than nothing. And it wouldn't replace the old either, anymore than the UM, BA, DA, SW old marine upgrade sprues were replaced by the new primaris ones.

[Jacques Corbin]

I guess the intent from the rules designers was for BT to be a heavily mechanized force. LRCs for the firstborn, and Repulsors and Impulsors for the Primaris, and everybody jumps out on turn 3. I mean, GW has to sell tanks. Are the days of full sized Crusader squads running full out across the board over and done? I mean, is herding the enemy with heavy tanks, and then disembarking to rip and tear, all that bad?

[Sete]

Im under the impression that the chaos box like the sisters is monopose sculpts. Honestly I could see GW throwing one of those our way later on.

I still haven't discarded Kirioth box rumour vs orks. The rest of his rumours were right, no reason for that one to be wrong.

 

I agree with your point of view Corbin, fingers crossed for good strats for Impulsors/Repulsors aswell.

[Deadman Wade]

I guess the intent from the rules designers was for BT to be a heavily mechanized force. LRCs for the firstborn, and Repulsors and Impulsors for the Primaris, and everybody jumps out on turn 3. I mean, GW has to sell tanks. Are the days of full sized Crusader squads running full out across the board over and done? I mean, is herding the enemy with heavy tanks, and then disembarking to rip and tear, all that bad?

 

Footslogging hasn't been an option since 6th edition, cause marines are easy to kill - blast templates wiped whole 20-man squads in 6th and 7th edition, high volume of fire and morale phase do the same in 8th. Our old codex said that BT primary tactics are mechanised and drop pod assaults. Not sure where all this "footslogging horde" thing came from, TBH, it never was a good tactic and it still isn't. Armored assault with a couple of stationary shooting units worked well for years now.

[Ciler]

I guess the intent from the rules designers was for BT to be a heavily mechanized force. LRCs for the firstborn, and Repulsors and Impulsors for the Primaris, and everybody jumps out on turn 3. I mean, GW has to sell tanks. Are the days of full sized Crusader squads running full out across the board over and done? I mean, is herding the enemy with heavy tanks, and then disembarking to rip and tear, all that bad?

Is there an existing strat that allows to disembark from a transport AFTER it moving ? Because now THAT would be a gamechanger.

[SirJyo]

Someone explain to me how "fires of devotion" can ever be used for a heroic intervention if it goes away at the end of the turn?

 

I thought you had to get charged to heroically intervene?

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

 

Im under the impression that the chaos box like the sisters is monopose sculpts. Honestly I could see GW throwing one of those our way later on.

I still haven't discarded Kirioth box rumour vs orks. The rest of his rumours were right, no reason for that one to be wrong.

 

I agree with your point of view Corbin, fingers crossed for good strats for Impulsors/Repulsors aswell.

 

Which box? The start collecting one? That's the chaos side from Shadowspear, no? They're monopose

[MarshalMittermeier]

footslogging horde cc was the way to play in the "4th edition golden age". you took two 20-man squads with chaplains and servitors (24 men total for each squad) and the servitors boosted the mobility and made these squads hit the enemy on turn 2. with NOBODY using transports that edition, it meant turn 2 everything got charged. it was really good-but it was a META thing, not a BT thing, which, however, had a correlation with BT's best days. this means that many old BT players confuse "the meta of an edition" with "BT fluff".

 

 

personally i LOVE mechanized forces. the idea that a truly elite fighting force like the BTs would ride to battle without at least capable transports seems weird to me.

[Marshal Laeroth]

I think it shall be time for me to start a new thread, with a specific focus.  

[MarshalMittermeier]

i think another problem with the "oldmarine" angle is the lingering fear/suspicion among our players that oldmarines will get shafted by GW in favour of Primaris new models-and when they do, the "chapter that still uses oldmarines" will be screwed.

 

however, i need to stress that i see NO oldmarine direction in these rumours. the land raider crusader stratagem is just that- a silly small bonus for BT land raider crusaders.

 

the warlord trait is VERY good and totaly applies to primaris forces.

the chapter tactic is okay, there are stronger ones but it is still useful- and it totaly applies to Primaris forces too. particularly with primaris having less access to high-strength cc.

the master of sanctity reveal and BT getting another litany set is awesome for Force Multipliers that were needed.

ALL these things are much more important than the dubious LRC stratagem that imho isnt even reliable enugh to be used as anything more than a diversion.

 

wether BT are weak, okay, strong , OP etc will be revealed after the full rules- but the rules revealed so far seem fine. are we just whining about aesthetics(upgrade sprues etc)?

[MarshalMittermeier]

I think it shall be time for me to start a new thread, with a specific focus.  

please do so. if you don't, I will, but i am curious to hear what you have to say :)

IMHO we need a thread that discussed the ACTUAL RULES/competitive angle, rather than model support/marine aesthetics/ primaris vs old etc.

[Marshal Laeroth]

 

I think it shall be time for me to start a new thread, with a specific focus.  

please do so. if you don't, I will, but i am curious to hear what you have to say

IMHO we need a thread that discussed the ACTUAL RULES/competitive angle, rather than model support/marine aesthetics/ primaris vs old etc.

 

 

That is what I intend to do.  Just need to focus my thoughts a little, but I'll be getting one up in a few minutes.  :)

[Acebaur]

Since apparently some of you can't be bothered to listen when a mod posts in a thread, consider this the last warning before corrective action is taken. I have edited out the off topic back and forth but going forward I'm just going to remove the post entirely regardless of any other constructive content that post may contain. 

[Lysere]

There are a couple lingering questions in regards to our rules that we really need before we can really decide how well GW did this time.

 

The first part is obviously the rest of our rules from PA 2. While the doctrine isn't amazing, combined with the rumored relic and other buffs we have yet to hear about it has a lot of potential. How many attacks can we add to a unit? How efficiently can we buff a melee unit for one powerful round? How the traits, strats, relics, and litanies stack up will make all the difference as we saw with the iron hands. It wasn't one thing that made them super good, it was the combos that came about because of the various pieces, and we already have two solid characters for buffs.

 

The other major question is how will all of this work with the Imperial Fists. Will we still have access to their special issue wargear? How about the warlord traits, the strats? I'm fairly confident we won't be able to have both super doctrines but the rest of it is still up in the air for now. While I don't think the traits and relics will be as great when compared to our own, if we are still able to use the stratagems then we will have a lot of options available to us. Curious to see what happens.

 

That said I think a combination of on foot and mechanized will work well. The challenge will be the timing of litanies since targeted ones require the unit to be on the field while the aura ones just require smart positioning and planning.

 

Still not sure about how they have litanies work though. Yes the start of round is nice and does kind of help balance them since otherwise your opponent has zero ways to stop them, but at the same time it means chaplains in a transport or deepstrike are even less useful than librarians. Just glad I have a jump pack chaplain.

[Jacques Corbin]

 

I guess the intent from the rules designers was for BT to be a heavily mechanized force. LRCs for the firstborn, and Repulsors and Impulsors for the Primaris, and everybody jumps out on turn 3. I mean, GW has to sell tanks. Are the days of full sized Crusader squads running full out across the board over and done? I mean, is herding the enemy with heavy tanks, and then disembarking to rip and tear, all that bad?

Is there an existing strat that allows to disembark from a transport AFTER it moving ? Because now THAT would be a gamechanger.

The Impulsor lets you disembark after it moves, but I forget if you can charge.

[Acebaur]

Someone explain to me how "fires of devotion" can ever be used for a heroic intervention if it goes away at the end of the turn?

 

I thought you had to get charged to heroically intervene?

 

Litanies are rolled at the beginning of the game turn, not player turn so it is in effect for entire time

[Ciler]

The Impulsor lets you disembark after it moves, but I forget if you can charge.

But by definition this would not apply to a Land Raider.

[Marshal Vespasian]

There was a rumoured strat that you could disembark and charge after moving the lrc. Which would be nice.

 

I am hyped for laeroths 'what Kind of army are we thread' as their Analyses are always very well thought out.

After playing Massed orks last weekend it has been on my mind that we might be best served as a counter assault force, as our melee is very strong on the charge, but falls off turn two. Also the most deadly thing in my list by far was my characters.

[Sete]

 

 

Im under the impression that the chaos box like the sisters is monopose sculpts. Honestly I could see GW throwing one of those our way later on.

I still haven't discarded Kirioth box rumour vs orks. The rest of his rumours were right, no reason for that one to be wrong.

 

I agree with your point of view Corbin, fingers crossed for good strats for Impulsors/Repulsors aswell.

Which box? The start collecting one? That's the chaos side from Shadowspear, no? They're monopose

By chaos i meant the upcoming slaves to darkness.

[Jacques Corbin]

Also, even if you cannot disembark and charge, you can disembark on turn 2, during Tactical Doctrine, and set up for the charge next turn. I mean, how good are Neophytes with Shotguns at AP-1?

 

I could totally see LRCs and Repulsors closing in tight on the enemy, followed up by Impulsors carrying Infiltrators. That Turn 2 Disembark, you have isolated a good portion of the enemy forces, cordoning off the area will a wall of zealous machine spirit. Then the Infiltrators disembark in key locations, and any hope of rescue dropping in (Crisis Suits, etc) will be in vain with their increased deep strike denial.

[DranuTemplar]

There was a rumoured strat that you could disembark and charge after moving the lrc. Which would be nice.

.

ooo that would be good. It would be nice if they let primaris ride the lrc too or a new melee primaris.

[Ciler]

You CAN disembark and charge, that's in the default rules. The problem - if there is one - is to get close enough to actually reliably pull off the charge.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

You CAN disembark and charge, that's in the default rules. The problem - if there is one - is to get close enough to actually reliably pull off the charge.

Not from the Impulsor AFTER it moves. You can disembark, shoot, but not charge.

[Ciler]

Ah, I see. But that's irrelevant to the LRC stratagem, and something that's available to all marines anyway.