Medjugorje Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 By the way, according to a well-known source, Grimaldus is a level 2 chaplain. I should hope, since he's described the as "High Chaplain" elsewhere, which is a term that most everywhere seems to be synomynous with "Master of Sanctity" It's a bit unclear wether you could upgrade another chaplain to "Master of Sanctity" and still have Grimaldus in the same army. High Marshal - Chapter MasterHigh Chaplain - Master of Sanctity? I am not sure - we will see. But honestly I believe that there is a WL-Trait with an additional Lithany (and Grimaldus have to take this)... No, we have a Master of Sanctity, Theoderic. He is in the Eternal Crusader Fluff has changed - It could be that Grimaldus is the new High Chaplain/Master of S. like Shrike became a Chapter Master in 8th edition Codex SM vol.1 (same book as shrike become CM)... balordazul 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 It's not that he Could be, he IS. From the 8th edition 1.0 codex: "Grimaldus is a veteran of centuries of combat, but only in the past few decades has he borne the mantle of the Black Templars' High Chaplain." Timeline has moved on. Grimaldus our top Chaplain now. Theodric is probably dead. balordazul 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balordazul Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Honestly I kind of like that considering we have a fairly awesome model for Grimaldus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painting.for.my.sanity Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 On the one hand, awesome news that we look to have a good block of new rules in the book. On the other, I'm a little sad it's got a heretic on the front and costs more than a supplement. I think overall, I'll hold off on purchase until it's been out for a little while and we've got full reviews available. DranuTemplar 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kombatwombat Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 About 8 Strats to a page, but our points values would hardly take up a full page as it's what, 5 lines? I'm expecting Strats and relics will carry over from there. I'm thinking probably about 10-12 strats and 3-4 relics. Based on comparing the contents page to the Supplements, in order: - 4 pages of fluff (likely around the characters) - 1 page of common rules like Doctrine bonus (same as Supplements) - 4 pages of our existing datasheets - 1 page of Litanies (equivalent time Supplement witchery) - 1 page of Warlord Traits (same as Supplement) - 1 page of Stratagems (one less than Supplement) - 1 page of Relics (same as Supplement, but lacking Special Issue Wargear) - 1 page of Points Values (same as Supplement but with a fluffier name) - 1 page of Tactical Objectives (same as Supplement) - 1 page of Name Generator (same as Supplement) So it looks like we miss out on Special Issue Wargear, which was probably be to expected as we likely won’t have successors but is still unfortunate. They might spill over to the Points Value page but for example Iron Hands have an entire page dedicated to a single point value and some art, so it’s a fair assumption that we’ll be the same. We also look to be locked to one page of Stratagems as if they were to spill over the page it’d be onto the Relics page which tends to be full. So we’re looking at 8-10 Stratagems, which does sting a little when the other Supplements get a second page. The rumoured Doctrine bonus is the weakest of the Codex and is where the Chapter gets its biggest and most consistent boost, so we’re really depending on Stratagems to make up lost ground. If we’re also short of Stratagems we’ll need them to be very good so as to not fall behind. Medjugorje 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 it also depends on the relics... There must be just one good relic and one or two good stratagems to be OP or like same level as pre-FAQ IH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Why do people think our doctrine bonus to be terrible? Auto wound on 6 to hit seems grand. Roll with chainswords, and exploding 6s with grim and chaplain... a 6 will be wonderful news. Chainswords are cheap, we’ll have plenty of them. I don’t play hyper competitive, but the rumoured rule seems great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal van Trapp Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I mean, they are an IF successor so they still gain access to their SI wargear right? And CF only have one piece of SI wargear so if they have one page of relics we could easily see one single SI wargear to add to the IF successor wargear list for BT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Why do people think our doctrine bonus to be terrible? Auto wound on 6 to hit seems grand. Roll with chainswords, and exploding 6s with grim and chaplain... a 6 will be wonderful news. Chainswords are cheap, we’ll have plenty of them. I don’t play hyper competitive, but the rumoured rule seems great! WS is straight up better in every case where you fight something with more than 1 wound. Which in this day and age is common. It's not a bad rule, just not as good as some of the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Arthur Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 If the rumors are true we’ll at least have a relic that gives an assault doctrine aura in which case we can benefit from assault doctrine earlier than WS. It’s not much but it is a helpful boost and will help against a wider variety of enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Why do people think our doctrine bonus to be terrible? Auto wound on 6 to hit seems grand. Roll with chainswords, and exploding 6s with grim and chaplain... a 6 will be wonderful news. Chainswords are cheap, we’ll have plenty of them. I don’t play hyper competitive, but the rumoured rule seems great! Because its the worst. Think about it twice. Each Hit roll of 6 is just 1/6 of all hits, against weaker Opponents 2/3 of those Attacks would wound without our bonus attack. It would be good if it would be a additional autowound. And its just ONE rule. Then we can have it just in round 3. Iron hands getting 2 rules (reroll 1 and no -1 to hit if moved...) at round 1. I hope we´ll get a scound special rule too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymnblade Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 What exactly is the rumored doctrine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redmapa Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) What exactly is the rumored doctrine? Rolls of unmodified 6s to hit in close combat automatically wound. Thats the rumor so maybe the wording will be different or there'll something more to it. I like it, it is definitely weaker than every other doctrine bonus but its fitting with this idea of horde marines brining nothing but weight of dice and even if it sucks there's still the stratagems which, like we've seen with Salamanders, can be really freaking good and carry the army. Edited November 12, 2019 by redmapa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gang_chong Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I think I will be proven wrong, but currently there's no rule stopping us to use IF doctrine and PA2 book will allow us to use BT doctrine. So... until GW make an errata, I think we can use both of super-doctrine, Devastator in IF and Assault in BT? Sword Brother Adelard 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 It's not that he Could be, he IS. From the 8th edition 1.0 codex: "Grimaldus is a veteran of centuries of combat, but only in the past few decades has he borne the mantle of the Black Templars' High Chaplain." Timeline has moved on. Grimaldus our top Chaplain now. Theodric is probably dead. This is what I meant by 'dumbing down', there never used to be a rank of "High Chaplain." We had a separate Reclusiarch and Master of Sanctity. So it's a bit different from Shrike, who moved up an existing rank structure. They just flat out changed his title to one which hadn't existed before. I'm just unsure as to why they made this particular change, other chapters still have named Masters of Sanctity, like Cassius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadman Wade Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Why do people think our doctrine bonus to be terrible? Auto wound on 6 to hit seems grand. Roll with chainswords, and exploding 6s with grim and chaplain... a 6 will be wonderful news. Chainswords are cheap, we’ll have plenty of them. I don’t play hyper competitive, but the rumoured rule seems great! Because its the worst. Think about it twice. Each Hit roll of 6 is just 1/6 of all hits, against weaker Opponents 2/3 of those Attacks would wound without our bonus attack. It would be good if it would be a additional autowound. And its just ONE rule. Then we can have it just in round 3. Iron hands getting 2 rules (reroll 1 and no -1 to hit if moved...) at round 1. I hope we´ll get a scound special rule too. +1 damage to vehicles and BUILDINGS with heavy weapons in devastator doctrine, anyone? Shamansky 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medjugorje Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 Why do people think our doctrine bonus to be terrible? Auto wound on 6 to hit seems grand. Roll with chainswords, and exploding 6s with grim and chaplain... a 6 will be wonderful news. Chainswords are cheap, we’ll have plenty of them. I don’t play hyper competitive, but the rumoured rule seems great! Because its the worst. Think about it twice. Each Hit roll of 6 is just 1/6 of all hits, against weaker Opponents 2/3 of those Attacks would wound without our bonus attack. It would be good if it would be a additional autowound. And its just ONE rule. Then we can have it just in round 3. Iron hands getting 2 rules (reroll 1 and no -1 to hit if moved...) at round 1. I hope we´ll get a scound special rule too. +1 damage to vehicles and BUILDINGS with heavy weapons in devastator doctrine, anyone? another thing like reroll hit rolls in close combat OR -1 to hit against us in melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Reinhard Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 It's not that he Could be, he IS. From the 8th edition 1.0 codex: "Grimaldus is a veteran of centuries of combat, but only in the past few decades has he borne the mantle of the Black Templars' High Chaplain." Timeline has moved on. Grimaldus our top Chaplain now. Theodric is probably dead. This is what I meant by 'dumbing down', there never used to be a rank of "High Chaplain." We had a separate Reclusiarch and Master of Sanctity. So it's a bit different from Shrike, who moved up an existing rank structure. They just flat out changed his title to one which hadn't existed before. I'm just unsure as to why they made this particular change, other chapters still have named Masters of Sanctity, like Cassius. I disagree. Why is it dumbing down? Why is it "changing his title" rather than him being promoted? You frame it like it was a retcon. I'll grant you that it is unclear, in so far as if there's also a Master of Sanctity (which would then hold a different significance to us, as to most other chapters), but it has been unclear all along. It was never previously specified wether there was a "High Chaplain" before. It's not specified wether High Chaplain is synonymous with Master of Sanctity in our case, as it seems to be with most codex chapters. It's not clear wether we have multiple Masters of Sanctity, and what their relative rank would be. It wasn't then and isn't now. No real change. Crunchwise there was nothing stopping you in 4th edition from taking 2 Masters of Sanctity, but it was also never in any fluff afaik endorsed or hinted that'd there be more than one. "Theoderic is our Master of Sanctity" I believe you said, implying there's only one. I say that was then and this is now, and until further notice, our Master of Sanctity = High Chaplain = Grimaldus. As for the ranks of Reclusiarch and Master of Sanctity being sepperate... aren't they still? Why wouldn't they be? Many chapters have different names for Master of Sanctity, High Chaplain seemingly one of the most common ones. Reclusiarch is the rank below that (again, at least with codex chapters, but do we have any reason to suspect we're different in this particular regard?) I'm sorry, I just don't see your beef here at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 They really don't need to invent anything like they do. All they need is to bring back vows, and give Assaul Vehicle trait to real assault vehicles with actual assault ramp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 I think they changed his title to be High Chaplain to be more in line with our leadership system. We have a High Marshal and regular Marshals why not apply that to chaplains as well is what I think they were going for Hadda 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Regarding our CT, I do not dislike it. Wont be winning any tournaments maybe, but I have no complains. It probably will be weaker than SW and BA aswell. The strats and WT will make it or break it. About Grimaldus, whatevs my dudes. What our IC need is new models really, fluff keeps changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 It’s important to note that the WS trait only comes into play if they charge or heroically intervene. Ours is active in any given situation and is better in prolonged fights. Sea-People and Schlitzaf 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 But WS can fall back and charge. Not many armies can prevent them slipping away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kombatwombat Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 It’s important to note that the WS trait only comes into play if they charge or heroically intervene. Ours is active in any given situation and is better in prolonged fights. How often do you actually see prolonged fights in an Edition where either side can calmly saunter out of combat, though? BLACK BLŒ FLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) They would fall back and charge on their turn. It can also be prevented. True, they could always leave combat. You would need to ensure it doesn’t happen, then. There’s more to simple math when it comes to these things and they should be considered when evaluating if it’s truly “the worst CT”. Edited November 12, 2019 by Brother Talarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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