Psychic Awakening 2 rumours

[AlmightyWalrus]

I'm thinking Scouts, one of the infiltrating flavours of Primaris and Invictors, and maybe Sword Brethren with Storm Bolters in Drop Pods to clear out chaff turn one, followed by Hammernators, Vanguard Veterans, and Sword Brethren in pods on turn 2 along with Helbrecht, a bike Chaplain for +2" to charges, and some stuff like Redemptor Dreadnoughts or Thunderfire Cannons to provide fire support from the backlines.

 

I still don't think Crusader Squads are the way to go since they're either too slow to get across the board or too few to do damage, even with our new buffs, but I'd love to be wrong on that.

Edited November 16, 2019 by AlmightyWalrus

[tvih]

 

From what I can tell (correct me if I am wrong), but the new Crusader Helm relic allows the model using it to select another unit on the board (within 6") during the movement phase to enter Assault Doctrine.  If you're already on the board on turn 1, then you can skip straight to "turn 3".  Crusader squads gained a special rule (Paired Combatants) saying that as long as you have equal or more INITIATES (So Sword Brother doesn't count) than Neophytes, the Neophytes get to reroll to hit rolls of one.

 

Ah, so it is, I missed that part of the Crusader Helm. I never used much neophytes - got 3 painted - but that's not a bad addition of a rule I suppose. Though it's funny that it makes neophytes hit more accurately than initiates. Of course, if there's a Marshal around then the rule becomes moot anyway.

 

Too bad the Helm is used at the start of the movement phase though, so it doesn't really work for deep striking. In fact, it doesn't even work for transports either. Oh well.

[Punchomatic]

Too bad the Helm is used at the start of the movement phase though, so it doesn't really work for deep striking. In fact, it doesn't even work for transports either. Oh well.

Hey any rules that encourage black tide, massed crusader squads, and hand to hand combat I’m in favor of. It, at the very least, shows that we are trending in the right direction!

 

Have faith, brothers!

[Palmu]

Chief Apothecaries seem quite useful as well, for 2 CP you get a guy who can revive two guys each turn, and has ib-built re-rolls for those attempts. Value!

 

Seems like a perfect model to support SS Swordbros podding in.

[Ciler]

I still don't think Crusader Squads are the way to go since they're either too slow to get across the board or too few to do damage, even with our new buffs, but I'd love to be wrong on that.

Check the previous page, they can move, advance and charge up 26' on turn 1, or do that out of an LRC on turn 2.

[Closet Skeleton]

Well that's disappointing. So it's just objectively worse than the Night Lord's strat and costs more? I'm still happy overall but a little peeved by that and the crusader squad price.

 

Edit: Although I will admit the Night Lords need it more. It fits their harassment play style.

 

Night Lords are in a grand alliance with a lot of stuff that shuts down fall back, Black Templars are in the biggest grand alliance that doesn't have much that shuts down falling back outside of like that one White Scars thing.

[Hymnblade]

 

Move full speed ahead.  Pop advance, shoot, charge stratagem on crusader squads.  2nd character should be in range of all of this.  Advance.  Charge.  So potentially a 26" threat range.

25" threat, I think. Even with a 2d6+1 charge, you can still only declare charges on units up to 12" away. So 6" move, 7" advance, then charge up to 12". It would take near-perfect luck to get a turn 1 charge from that.

 

Intercessors with auto bolt rifles and a thunder hammer sergeant might make for an unconventional but interesting Black Tide too. You get more wounds per point than a Crusader squad, and they can put out decent fire support while closing in.

[tvih]

 

Hey any rules that encourage black tide, massed crusader squads, and hand to hand combat I’m in favor of. It, at the very least, shows that we are trending in the right direction!

"Black Tide" isn't an actual fluffy thing, though, even if some prefer it; we're not a horde army. Close combat is our thing, of course. But Marines are largely mechanized, Templars being no exception, but all these kinds of rules work against effective mechanization. And specifically, a CC army needs mechanization to get where it is going most of the time.

[Sete]

Intercessors with Auto Bolters Marshall and Chappy, Impulsors and dread.

Need anti tank tho...

[Marshal Laeroth]

 

 

Move full speed ahead.  Pop advance, shoot, charge stratagem on crusader squads.  2nd character should be in range of all of this.  Advance.  Charge.  So potentially a 26" threat range.

25" threat, I think. Even with a 2d6+1 charge, you can still only declare charges on units up to 12" away. So 6" move, 7" advance, then charge up to 12". It would take near-perfect luck to get a turn 1 charge from that.

 

Intercessors with auto bolt rifles and a thunder hammer sergeant might make for an unconventional but interesting Black Tide too. You get more wounds per point than a Crusader squad, and they can put out decent fire support while closing in.

 

 

I was counting the being within 1" of enemy models to count as being in combat. But I suppose your point still stands. 

 

Intercessors can kinda fulfill that role, but you're losing 18 attacks on the charge, even before Litany buffs.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Marshal Laeroth

[MarshalMittermeier]

regarding what Sete suggested, for a Primaris force, i'd do this:

 

battalion (budget: 750 points)

Chaplain

Marshal

3 x Veteran Intercessor Squads 

3 x Impulsors

spearhead (budget: 1250 points)

chaplain w/ catechism of fire

2 x Repulsor Executioners

2 x hellblaster squads w/ assault plasma incinerators

 

i'm pretty sure some points will be leftover for dread(s).

 

looks like super mechanised, but i love my vanguard and reivers too much to do this- simply because i can fit more swords in the armylist that way :P

Edited November 16, 2019 by MarshalMittermeier

[Ado]

Just thinking a 6man squad of aggressors could be powerful. WL near by for +1 advance and charge, no penalty to shoot with advancing and then 1CP strat to charge after advancing to throw some power fists in the face of the enemy.

[redmapa]

Bikes also benefit a ton from these new rules, you can advance them really far due to their speed and pop the strat to let them charge and for even more speed just add the WLT for +1 advance/charge roll and they get a max 34" range. Sure you might lose their good amount of bolter fire but you can pretty much go anywhere, same with Company Vets on Bikes.

 

Aggressors are another unit that can benefit from this, they also lose some firepower and they are slower BUT they are also a bit tankier and are deadlier in close combat, I was already building a 6 man flamer Aggressor squad so Im definitely using them to move forward at max speed.

 

I like this new option, it lends itself to a lot of possibiliites, from fast moving units and advancing troops, deep striking vanguards or phobos armies that can be deployed more conservatively only for them to advance and charge.

[Sete]

Wish Primos had drop pods tbh.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Has anyone thought of any mad IF & BT combos yet?

[AlmightyWalrus]

 

I still don't think Crusader Squads are the way to go since they're either too slow to get across the board or too few to do damage, even with our new buffs, but I'd love to be wrong on that.

Check the previous page, they can move, advance and charge up 26' on turn 1, or do that out of an LRC on turn 2.

 

 

Yeah, but 27" isn't enough for reliable turn 1 charges, and you're investing two Chaplains, a relic, and a warlord trait on making it happen, and even then you're barely getting across the deployment zone assuming you roll a 6 for advance and a 12 for your charge with +1" to charge/advance and +2" to charge.

 

With average rolls you're getting closer to 21"-22", and that's not enough to get to something turn 1.

[Ado]

Just thinking a 6man squad of aggressors could be powerful. WL near by for +1 advance and charge, no penalty to shoot with advancing and then 1CP strat to charge after advancing to throw some power fists in the face of the enemy.

[AlmightyWalrus]

I second the idea of using Company Veterans on bikes for some first-turn shenanigans. They can have the <SWORD BRETHREN> keyword since they're Company Veterans, so with double chainswords you can have 6 attacks each on the charge rerolling wounds.

[Marshal Laeroth]

 

 

I still don't think Crusader Squads are the way to go since they're either too slow to get across the board or too few to do damage, even with our new buffs, but I'd love to be wrong on that.

Check the previous page, they can move, advance and charge up 26' on turn 1, or do that out of an LRC on turn 2.

 

 

Yeah, but 27" isn't enough for reliable turn 1 charges, and you're investing two Chaplains, a relic, and a warlord trait on making it happen, and even then you're barely getting across the deployment zone assuming you roll a 6 for advance and a 12 for your charge with +1" to charge/advance and +2" to charge.

 

With average rolls you're getting closer to 21"-22", and that's not enough to get to something turn 1.

 

 

You don't necessarily even need it turn one though.  Turn two is sufficient.  Especially if you are blasting the enemy with first turn charges from Drop Pods and/or Concealed Positions. 

 

I am not entirely sure about its competitiveness yet, as it'd need to be playtested, but its definitely intriguing for the sheer damage output.  I cannot think of a single other unit that can kill ~43.6 marines on the charge.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Marshal Laeroth

[Hymnblade]

I second the idea of using Company Veterans on bikes for some first-turn shenanigans. They can have the <SWORD BRETHREN> keyword since they're Company Veterans, so with double chainswords you can have 6 attacks each on the charge rerolling wounds.

Bikes were not the Black Templar unit I expected to suddenly become great in 8th edition.

 

With t5, 2 wounds each, and a 3+ invulnerable from the strat if you want it, that's not an excessively vulnerable unit even if the enemy is wiped out or manages to fall back. Nice.

 

It seems like there should be some way to make bikes look suitably knightly - I mean, they're basically steeds. But wielding two chainswords may look goofy...

Edited November 17, 2019 by Hymnblade

[Crusader7]

Rechecking now, but company Vets on bikes was the first thing I looked at. It specifies infantry I believe so no turn 1 charge bikes. Otherwise yeah, piling on the buffs into a unit of TH/SS Bikers and letting them smash the biggest baddest thing on the field and then taking a hostage would be insane.

 

Edit:

 

Yeah, the Emperor's Will strat specifies Black Templars Infantry. VV and Assault Marines look like the fastest thing we have got. They can move an impressive distance for sure, but likely not a turn 1 charge unless the enemy deploys sloppy.

 

On the other hand, forward deployment models looks to be fairly strong. A 10 man Scout Squad comes in at 110. Slap a Power Fist/Sword on the Sargeant for a little oomph and use their reroll to wound strat and they are hitting pretty hefty. Just the naked squad is killing 5 MEQs and ~12 GEQ in combat alone. Add in a Phobos Captain/Power Weapons/Pistols/Assault Doctrine and it goes up from there. Pretty impressive return on investment for the premier battalion filler.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Crusader7

[Marshal Arthur]

I think someone mentioned this but do we still have access to the Vigilus rules?

[Lysere]

Bikes also benefit a ton from these new rules, you can advance them really far due to their speed and pop the strat to let them charge and for even more speed just add the WLT for +1 advance/charge roll and they get a max 34" range. Sure you might lose their good amount of bolter fire but you can pretty much go anywhere, same with Company Vets on Bikes.

 

Aggressors are another unit that can benefit from this, they also lose some firepower and they are slower BUT they are also a bit tankier and are deadlier in close combat, I was already building a 6 man flamer Aggressor squad so Im definitely using them to move forward at max speed.

 

I like this new option, it lends itself to a lot of possibiliites, from fast moving units and advancing troops, deep striking vanguards or phobos armies that can be deployed more conservatively only for them to advance and charge.

Pretty sure the advance and charge strat specifies Black Templar Infantry which bikes are not. Jump pack units would work well with it though.

[redmapa]

 

Pretty sure the advance and charge strat specifies Black Templar Infantry which bikes are not. Jump pack units would work well with it though.

 

 

Winters review says its infantry but then he doesnt mention the unit can charge but Skaredcast's review reads it as "unit" and not infantry, we will see which is correct as I haven't seen it myself but Im leaning towards Skaredcast because he seems like he's reading it directly.

[Marshal van Trapp]

There is no way they'll let us use the IF supplement, otherwise a 10man veteran intercessor squad with close range bolters and auto bolt rifles would get to advance, fire 40 s4 shots into a unit within 12" and then charge that same unit with 40 attacks!!! That would be bonkers!