IA: The Knights Oracular (LASC 19) - Draft 1.1!

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Thing is, I usually see far too overt an influence in most chapters, including my own, from their inspiration. I mean, it's not easy as Astartes are not exactly the subtlest of angry-post-human-cyber-augmented-warriors that ever existed in any sci-fi setting.

 

With the glass helms, it doesn't need to scream Mysterio, so long as you 'space marine' up their appearance. like the above image have a skull spray-painted on the front. Throw Mysterio through a grimdark filter and see what pops out visually.

 

Your IA was fun, not referential and I honestly didn't place the colour scheme until you told me. Maybe I'm just an idiot.

 

All I'm saying is you have some wiggle room, is all.

 

Perhaps have your Librarians with glass helms? It'd fit the influence!

[Messor]

I really dig the paint job. It plays very well with the inspiration, while still feeling to me like something I would legitimately see in 40k. The blue strikes a nice balance.

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

Honestly I think a better solution is to find some different heads.

 

Well... yeah, it is, but I can't find any helmets that look better than the ones I have.

There is also the fact I'm wary at best of most third party bits and their associated bits sites.

 

There is also also that I'd like the KO to at least have the pretence of subtlety in their theme.

I'm bound to come back and dilute some of the Mysterio influence properly, just as soon as I find something suitably cool to dilute it with.

 

 

I'm thinking too much variation (drastic redesign, fog effects, etc.) in helmet design might invite unwanted attention from others and eventually you know who...… =][=

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

The legions had, and modern chapters all have their own stylized helms. I think as long as they report it to be aesthetic, I think they can get away with it. 

 

Considering how much leeway the Astartes have already with tech and redesigns, double that now that Bellisarius Cawl and Papa Smurf are in charge, I don't think they have much to worry about.

 

I also think the Inquisition has more to worry about with Big Bobby G's attention on them. All that said, that's modern Imperium. THAT said, so long as people don't look too closely, the Imperium is a big place, and some Astartes with unusual helmet designs I doubt would warrant too much of a hard look, unless it came on the coattails of a larger investigation.

 

Look at this Lunkhead, we've swapped roles.

[gripschi]

As Long they dont utlizie Wraithbone for there helmets, they shouldnt be brotherd by it.

 

Maybe the Chapter has Access to a Ore, which probaly forged Turn transparent. With a bit adamantium or Else give the needed Protection.

 

Maybe a bit "exotic", i Image it more by Psykers. But its your IA, and If you choose it, its fine.

[Brother Lunkhead]

The legions had, and modern chapters all have their own stylized helms. I think as long as they report it to be aesthetic, I think they can get away with it. 

 

Considering how much leeway the Astartes have already with tech and redesigns, double that now that Bellisarius Cawl and Papa Smurf are in charge, I don't think they have much to worry about.

 

I also think the Inquisition has more to worry about with Big Bobby G's attention on them. All that said, that's modern Imperium. THAT said, so long as people don't look too closely, the Imperium is a big place, and some Astartes with unusual helmet designs I doubt would warrant too much of a hard look, unless it came on the coattails of a larger investigation.

 

Look at this Lunkhead, we've swapped roles.

 

True.... there are many stylized helms across the countless Space Marine chapters.  However all seem to be variations on  recognizable standard designs across the millennia. Some of the more elaborate ones such as those worn by Moloc and Enkomi of the Minotaurs can be seen as standard designs stripped down and tricked out. Even the Primaris helmet designs are just variations on a theme. I don't really even have a problem with truly drastic designs like the Mysterio dome, I just think it will draw unwanted attention to this particular chapter.

 

Other things like the Knight's flashy Mysterio colors ( which I truly dig) are well within keeping of a typically arrogant Space Marine chapter, and while I don't think wearing smoking fish bowls over their heads is going to immediately bring the Inquisition down on them, I do think it will draw attention and comments. I think the attention and comments they draw will be more than a chapter with a hidden agenda like that of the Knights Oracular would want.

 

 

Look at this Lunkhead, we've swapped roles.

 

 

 

 

Ace Debonair

Posted 02 January 2020 - 10:49 AM

 

I'm bound to come back and dilute some of the Mysterio influence properly, just as soon as I find something suitably cool to dilute it with.

 

What about hallucinogenic gas grenades?

[Ace Debonair]

OK, so...

 

For the moment I'm still thinking the standard troops will have metallic blue helmets, sergeants get the ghostly-blue coloured ones (codex ones go with bright red, this divergence is probably within acceptable parameters in-universe) and when I get around to doing a Librarian*, I'm gonna do my best to go Full Mysterio with the guy's hat, although I'd set expectations for any success to the lowest possible setting.

 

Hats aside - is there anything else that needs work?

 

I'd consider adding hallucinogenic gas grenades, but that's closer to the Mysterio inspiration (at least, how he is in the comics) instead of further away.

Inspiration is a fickle beast - I'll find something, somewhere, that works for me, but it might take a little while.

 

 

 

 

* It's going to happen now, it's just a matter of time - I have so many other projects to work out, both writing and modelling-wise, that I can't say when the KO will be back on my painting table.

[Brother Lunkhead]

Ace Debonair

Posted Yesterday, 02:17 PM

 

 

I'd consider adding hallucinogenic gas grenades, but that's closer to the Mysterio inspiration (at least, how he is in the comics) instead of further away.

Inspiration is a fickle beast - I'll find something, somewhere, that works for me, but it might take a little while.

 

Moving further away..... I see. Must have misread your post Still, I like the idea of hallucinogenic grenades..... maybe I'll use it for one of my own DIY chapters, the Leary Brigade 

 

…..when I get around to doing a Librarian*, I'm gonna do my best to go Full Mysterio with the guy's hat, although I'd set expectations for any success to the lowest possible setting.

 

You might consider making your own Mysterio fishbowl. A master model made with modeling clay would be simple to make. You could use a simple mold injected with clear or dyed resin. All are easy to find at a reasonable price at a hobby or art supply store.

[Ace Debonair]

*blows the dust off the thread*

Right, well, it's been a minute.

 

I've given the Knights Oracular a new coat of paint, both literally and figuratively.

 

This includes changing up a few lines, quotes, and names of places that didn't sit right with me, adding a picture with repainted and completed models at the top of the article, and a snippet about how the KO were fine with a Penitence Crusade being levied on them because it was a fine excuse to go after the last of the Jagged Fang.

 

I never actually got around to submitting these guys to the Liber Showcase, to my own surprise. I though I had, but apparently I just dreamt that or something.

So, almost a year later, this is one last pass over the Chapter before I commit the Knights Oracular to Eternal Glory in the Liber Showcase.

 

if anyone would like to pick out any obvious mistakes, faults, missing bits or other errors on my part, it'd be appreciated!

All thoughts, comments, C&C and scornful derision of such an improbable concept as "finishing an IA in the Liber" are welcome.

[Gamiel]

Looking good. With so many stories about good guys going bad is it always nice to see stories about bad guys that find out that it's nicer to be good.

 

Just wondering, how is their culture, or at least the one they precent to outsiders? If I was a noble Crimson Knights Marine that had to travel with them for some time, what would I see?

Edited December 6, 2020 by Gamiel

[Ace Debonair]

Looking good. With so many stories about good guys going bad is it always nice to see stories about bad guys that find out that it's nicer to be good.

 

Just wondering, how is their culture, or at least the one they precent to outsiders? If I was a noble Crimson Knights Marine that had to travel with them for some time, what would I see?

That is a very, very good question.

The honest answer is that I'm not entirely sure myself!

 

I imagine it'd be a situation somewhat like the Dark Angels, wherein those outside the Chapter simply never see the full picture of what the Chapter is truly like.

 

The KO would generally attempt to be respectful and co-operative, but always careful to keep a little distance. They'd probably come across as a very vanilla Chapter, maybe a little overly-formal sometimes, but nothing too distinctive, or that might prompt the Crimson Knights to look too closely at their travelling companions.

[Gamiel]

 

Looking good. With so many stories about good guys going bad is it always nice to see stories about bad guys that find out that it's nicer to be good.

 

Just wondering, how is their culture, or at least the one they precent to outsiders? If I was a noble Crimson Knights Marine that had to travel with them for some time, what would I see?

That is a very, very good question.

The honest answer is that I'm not entirely sure myself!

 

I imagine it'd be a situation somewhat like the Dark Angels, wherein those outside the Chapter simply never see the full picture of what the Chapter is truly like.

 

The KO would generally attempt to be respectful and co-operative, but always careful to keep a little distance. They'd probably come across as a very vanilla Chapter, maybe a little overly-formal sometimes, but nothing too distinctive, or that might prompt the Crimson Knights to look too closely at their travelling companions.

 

Suggestion:

 

Back before they turned they likely created and faked some kind of honourable and heroic seeming culture as Knights Oracular for when they had Imperial observers, possibly some of that fake culture have become real culture.

 

They probably have kept some, or even much, of their old Alpha Legion culture. You could take a look at some of the things Alpha Legionnaires do and decide which stuff they have kept and what they have left behind, there is also that now they are no longer faking being the Knights Oracular maybe some of the Alpha Legion culture they once only did when hidden have begun to happen in the open.

[Ace Debonair]

What makes that interesting is of course the fact that so little is known about the Alpha Legion's Chapter* Culture.

 

That, coupled with the fact the Knights Oracular more or less stay in one area and wouldn't meet many other Chapters, makes it difficult for me to work out precisely what the KO would even present as a culture.

 

They'd probably just hew close to Codex (It's more than just a list of military doctrines, after all) and make sure everyone keeps a respectful distance from their ships and so forth.

 

I'd agree very much on large elements of their current culture being stuff that was largely invented as part of the loyalist masquerade. As for precisely what those elements are, I'm yet to decide on that. I'll mull it over for a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

*or Legion, or Warband, or whatever the correct term is. 

[Gamiel]

Easy culture points to make are:

+ just how they look out of armoured (having them in togas say another thing from robes, that say another thing from tunic, that say another thing from kilts and nothing more, etc.);

+ their internal lingo (what do they call their different ranks, squads, specialists, etc.); 

+ how do their faces look when not helmeted (eye of Ra eyeshadow and braided long hair and beard; no hair at all and snake tattoos; crew cut hair and honours as earrings; warpaint; very scared faces but well-maintained hair in ringlets*; etc.);

+ do they wear hats and if so what kind;

 

* I suddenly want to make/read about a Chapter that has that look

 

What makes that interesting is of course the fact that so little is known about the Alpha Legion's Chapter* Culture.

They seems to like chains (at least painted on ones), and snakes (at least as decorations). An imrepession I got from them is that the have a light antice Greek theme (with no Roman element, unlike the Ultramarines).

 

If you want some suggestions for snake based traditiones, do I have some. 

 

Regarding the (possibly) Greek theme could you pick some things from those cultures, or use points from later Greek cultures since the Knights Oracular are of later origins, or enemies of the antic Greeks since they are now Alpha Legion enemies.

 

You could have that they have kept one or more of the specialist ranks that are presented in the Horus Heresy book 3 (it's 3 right where the AL get a presentation?).

 

 

 

 

That, coupled with the fact the Knights Oracular more or less stay in one area and wouldn't meet many other Chapters, makes it difficult for me to work out precisely what the KO would even present as a culture. 

I can see them doing stuff as having great victory feasts/parades (when having the time), where they not only honour themself but constantly point out that they were not the only one fighting, that the normal humans should have just as much honour as them and the whole Ciaphas Cain routine.

 

Other good guy-seeming stuff could be to from time-to-time visits areas and have great fists where everybody (from all social stratas) is welcome. Helping world in need from famine or natural catastrophes, even when they are not causes by enemies of the Imperium.  

Edited December 14, 2020 by Gamiel

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

 

That, coupled with the fact the Knights Oracular more or less stay in one area and wouldn't meet many other Chapters, makes it difficult for me to work out precisely what the KO would even present as a culture. 

 

 

But that's just it, make it a part of their 'culture' to reflect their inherently chimeric nature. They reflect back a lesser-version of the values of the chapter they are dealing with. If they parleyed with the Salamanders they'd show off their forge-work. Showing their interests to be the same, but while reinforcing how 'superior' their cousins are would allow them to have an advantageous position in terms of manipulating their cousins attitudes of them.

 

So everyone thinks they follow a milder version of their own traditions, but seperately from one another, as it'd take multiple chapters putting their heads together to work out something wasn't right, which is not very likely.

[Ace Debonair]

Easy culture points to make are:

+ just how they look out of armoured (having them in togas say another thing from robes, that say another thing from tunic, that say another thing from kilts and nothing more, etc.);

+ their internal lingo (what do they call their different ranks, squads, specialists, etc.); 

+ how do their faces look when not helmeted (eye of Ra eyeshadow and braided long hair and beard; no hair at all and snake tattoos; crew cut hair and honours as earrings; warpaint; very scared faces but well-maintained hair in ringlets*; etc.);

+ do they wear hats and if so what kind;

 

* I suddenly want to make/read about a Chapter that has that look

Hmm.

That should be easy enough to work in, I suppose.

 

I'll get another day off some time next year () so I'll try and sort out an update then.

 

I was going to go with "generic, bald Alpha Legion guys" as a look, but it makes a lot of sense to change it up, given the whole point is the KO are trying *not* to look like Alpha Legion.

 

 

Also, you should totally make that Chapter with the ringlets, although I imagine actually modelling them would be a real pain!

 

 

They seems to like chains (at least painted on ones), and snakes (at least as decorations). An imrepession I got from them is that the have a light antice Greek theme (with no Roman element, unlike the Ultramarines).

 

If you want some suggestions for snake based traditiones, do I have some. 

 

Regarding the (possibly) Greek theme could you pick some things from those cultures, or use points from later Greek cultures since the Knights Oracular are of later origins, or enemies of the antic Greeks since they are now Alpha Legion enemies.

Hmm. Yes, there's definitely some ideas to be drawn on from here.

 

 

You could have that they have kept one or more of the specialist ranks that are presented in the Horus Heresy book 3 (it's 3 right where the AL get a presentation?).

I'm not really clued up on the Heresy-era stuff, but I'll do some research and see if I can find something I like.

 

 

 

I can see them doing stuff as having great victory feasts/parades (when having the time), where they not only honour themself but constantly point out that they were not the only one fighting, that the normal humans should have just as much honour as them and the whole Ciaphas Cain routine.

That does sound like something the Knights Oracular would do, to be fair, especially in the early days when they're just starting out.

 

Other good guy-seeming stuff could be to from time-to-time visits areas and have great fists where everybody (from all social stratas) is welcome. Helping world in need from famine or natural catastrophes, even when they are not causes by enemies of the Imperium.

Hmm. Relief forces for natural disasters sounds like another thing the KO could do.

Alpha Legion being Alpha Legion, they may have even found ways to cause or exacerbate those disasters first - at least before the split with the Jagged Fang.

 

 

But that's just it, make it a part of their 'culture' to reflect their inherently chimeric nature. They reflect back a lesser-version of the values of the chapter they are dealing with. If they parleyed with the Salamanders they'd show off their forge-work. Showing their interests to be the same, but while reinforcing how 'superior' their cousins are would allow them to have an advantageous position in terms of manipulating their cousins attitudes of them.

 

So everyone thinks they follow a milder version of their own traditions, but seperately from one another, as it'd take multiple chapters putting their heads together to work out something wasn't right, which is not very likely.

I like that idea, but it also suggests a lot more interaction with other Chapters than I actually want the KO to have.

 

They're deliberately isolationist by nature - they don't want anyone prying too hard for information like "which founding" or "what's your lineage", or anything of that kidney  - they'd probably spend more time avoiding other Chapters than interacting with them.

 

I think, in situations where they have no choice but to work with another Chapter, they'd try and come across as almost completely white-bread Codex Adherents, erring slightly on the side of ostentatious and dramatic (because the guy that inspired this chapter is just about the most ostentatious and dramatic supervillain I can think of, outside of Doctor Doom)  so as to hopefully put said other Chapter off attempting to be best friends or anything.

 

Of course, I can put this into the IA instead, but I'm honestly not sure how much word count "The Knights Oracular prefer to avoid other Space Marines, for fairly obvious reasons" should actually get in the article.

[Gamiel]

 

I was going to go with "generic, bald Alpha Legion guys" as a look, but it makes a lot of sense to change it up, given the whole point is the KO are trying *not* to look like Alpha Legion.

You could keep them bald but that they all wear wigs to give themselves heroic hair