DarkChaplain Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 On 3/21/2020 at 7:05 PM, Drekkan said: On 3/21/2020 at 5:43 PM, Scribe said: The moment anyone can take those 4chan rumours out behind the shed and deliver unto them the Emperor's Mercy, please...do. Otherwise, its exactly what I was talking about. The sister of silence character call Aphone is a pretty big hint of how subtle it's going to be. "Aphone" actually means voiceless, which is about as suitable for a sisterhood that won't speak as it gets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drekkan Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 On 3/21/2020 at 7:16 PM, DarkChaplain said: On 3/21/2020 at 7:05 PM, Drekkan said: On 3/21/2020 at 5:43 PM, Scribe said: The moment anyone can take those 4chan rumours out behind the shed and deliver unto them the Emperor's Mercy, please...do. Otherwise, its exactly what I was talking about. The sister of silence character call Aphone is a pretty big hint of how subtle it's going to be. "Aphone" actually means voiceless, which is about as suitable for a sisterhood that won't speak as it gets. Let's agree to disagree. You enjoy it, I don't. Have a nice read Frater. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494400 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) I’ve finished it. I loved it. There are parts that some people will probably not like. About the 4chan rumours: Reveal hidden contents They're true. Sorry, Scribe. Edited March 21, 2020 by fire golem RedFurioso 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerOrders Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) On 3/21/2020 at 7:24 PM, fire golem said: I’ve finished it. I loved it. There are parts that some people will probably not like. About the 4chan rumours: Reveal hidden contents They're true. Sorry, Scribe. ....You read faster than the Khan rides, frater. Edited March 21, 2020 by StrangerOrders Knockagh 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedor Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Dorn is one of the Primarchs that i think has been handled competently by whoever has portrayed him. Abnett's Lightning Tower is still my favourite though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Wait what? Could you elaborate these spoilers, Fire Golem? I need a bit of background before judging them. If possible of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerOrders Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 On 3/21/2020 at 7:33 PM, Kelborn said: Wait what? Could you elaborate these spoilers, Fire Golem? I need a bit of background before judging them. If possible of course. My two cents is that the book is longer than a bloody ASOIAF novel or two-three usual HH novels, I stand ready to be convinced that the stars of ponies made out of raspberries (the best berries) by the end. Granted, as I type this, it occurs to me that everyone will read it eventually anyway so its perhaps a pointless comment The mortal scenes are great so far, Abnett really has a knack for describing the horror of war (and has greatly improved at showing how utterly screwed most mortals are at trying to fight Astartes). Fire Golem 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) On 3/21/2020 at 7:33 PM, Kelborn said: Wait what? Could you elaborate these spoilers, Fire Golem? I need a bit of background before judging them. If possible of course. Reveal hidden contents Now, a lot happens after that so details might not be exact. John Grammaticus goes to visit a Perpetual called Erda, he was supposed to meet Oll there. She tells him how the Perpetuals always saw themselves as the evolution of Humanity. The Emperor was already a warlord at this point, and she knew him as Neoth, although that was just one of many names he’s had and she doesn’t know if he even had a true name. The Emperor was more powerful than the others combined, and he was impatient with the rate of humanities evolution, and as the perpetuals began to stop helping him, he created artificial equivalents in the Primarchs. Erda’s genes were used with the Emperors, so she’s kind of their mother. She eventually turned from the accelerated evolution idea, scattered the Primarchs and fled. She states how she’s surprised he never came after her. Its 545 pages long, btw. Big ol book. Edited March 21, 2020 by fire golem calgar101 and RedFurioso 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) On 3/21/2020 at 7:24 PM, fire golem said: I’ve finished it. I loved it. There are parts that some people will probably not like. About the 4chan rumours: Reveal hidden contents They're true. Sorry, Scribe. Well, . There goes my interest in the book. That's both demystifying a ton of aspects about the entire setting and particular characters and retconning in stuff that's just not very interesting in itself. Guess I can wait those many months til the ebook/audiobook releases. Or another year or three, maybe. It's always the Abnett novels that go this deep down the bum on lore changes, huh? And people got pissy when Laurie dared to have Malcador tell his dying "friend" the Heresy was totally planned, honest, you can die in peace now. I can't see this going well. With the added context, it might be salvageable, depending on how Abnett tells it. Reveal hidden contents It's no surprise that the Emperor used someone's genes besides his to create the Primarchs, mind. I just dislike that this person is still alive and free, nevermind in the know. The Emperor having many names, one of which being Neoth, isn't too bad either - he was implied to be numerous figures throughout history, anyway. We also knew that the Emperor was into elevating humanity as a species. But having this woman, who is still alive and well, scatter the Primarchs? That's just really lame. Edited March 21, 2020 by DarkChaplain Ingo Pech 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 On 3/21/2020 at 7:48 PM, DarkChaplain said: On 3/21/2020 at 7:24 PM, fire golem said: I’ve finished it. I loved it. There are parts that some people will probably not like. About the 4chan rumours: Reveal hidden contents They're true. Sorry, Scribe. Well, . There goes my interest in the book. That's both demystifying a ton of aspects about the entire setting and particular characters and retconning in stuff that's just not very interesting in itself. Guess I can wait those many months til the ebook/audiobook releases. Or another year or three, maybe. It's always the Abnett novels that go this deep down the bum on lore changes, huh? And people got pissy when Laurie dared to have Malcador tell his dying "friend" the Heresy was totally planned, honest, you can die in peace now. I can't see this going well. Speaking personally, and as someone who holds execution extremely highly for how much I enjoy something, my issues with Goulding mostly comes down to the fact that most of his writing is just not very good, and that his motivations for writing some of what he did is a bit suspect. The Malcador audio just struck me as pandering, and Last Council didn't win any favours by setting a new bar on how not to write Horus. Not to say Abnett isn't necessarily pandering, I haven't read the spoilers, but the synopsis of most of his Heresy entries would have made me scratch my head without the surrounding context and writing ability (eg: The Alpha Legion turned because a secret Cabal of Xenos convinced them to eradicate mankind for the good of the galaxy, and Alpharius Omegon is actually twins!) I fully expect to be won over by whatever it is people are annoyed about. Fire Golem, calgar101 and mc warhammer 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangerOrders Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 On 3/21/2020 at 7:58 PM, Roomsky said: On 3/21/2020 at 7:48 PM, DarkChaplain said: On 3/21/2020 at 7:24 PM, fire golem said: I’ve finished it. I loved it. There are parts that some people will probably not like. About the 4chan rumours: Reveal hidden contents They're true. Sorry, Scribe. Well, . There goes my interest in the book. That's both demystifying a ton of aspects about the entire setting and particular characters and retconning in stuff that's just not very interesting in itself. Guess I can wait those many months til the ebook/audiobook releases. Or another year or three, maybe. It's always the Abnett novels that go this deep down the bum on lore changes, huh? And people got pissy when Laurie dared to have Malcador tell his dying "friend" the Heresy was totally planned, honest, you can die in peace now. I can't see this going well. Speaking personally, and as someone who holds execution extremely highly for how much I enjoy something, my issues with Goulding mostly comes down to the fact that most of his writing is just not very good, and that his motivations for writing some of what he did is a bit suspect. The Malcador audio just struck me as pandering, and Last Council didn't win any favours by setting a new bar on how not to write Horus. Not to say Abnett isn't necessarily pandering, I haven't read the spoilers, but the synopsis of most of his Heresy entries would have made me scratch my head without the surrounding context and writing ability (eg: The Alpha Legion turned because a secret Cabal of Xenos convinced them to eradicate mankind for the good of the galaxy, and Alpharius Omegon is actually twins!) I fully expect to be won over by whatever it is people are annoyed about. My gripe is honestly how often people will at later dates claim to know the book and use it in conversation despite never having read it and likely knowing nothing of the detail or context. Look at this thread alone, its already coming and its irking me already. Fire Golem, RedFurioso, WolfLogic and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494422 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) Reveal hidden contents TBF given the nature of perpetuals, it’s not that much of a stretch she’s still alive. This must be what Gav was talking in the snippets of his talking about the old star children and shaman lore coming back in some form. The Perpetuals are the shamans. Their goal was to defeat chaos, transform humanity, yadaSecond thoughts: Dan will sometimes write things to come back and intentionally dunk on them later. It’s becoming more clear this is the iteration of the old lore about the Emperor, and we know Dan himself specifically said he’s not interested in answering any questions so I don’t think he’s going to come out and say they Emperors name is Tom, he was an accountant, one day he got bitten by a radioactive psyker and developed Emperor powers. Going into the History of the Emperor doesn’t really take or add anything from what he is and what he represents narratively, the same way you can take or leave Palpatine being a Senator from Naboo, it’s a fact that is irrelevant to Luke’s heroes journey. The Primarchs being a perpetual experiment and being scattered by the new lady is the same. Why they were scattered doesn’t really matter. Who scattered them is irrelevant. There’s also the possibility (because Black Library is anti-hard lore) she’s making this stuff up.Also, because I’m a nerd. Any battle and organizational spoilers possible? Details on the palace, etc. Edited March 21, 2020 by Marshal Rohr mc warhammer, Llagos_Tyrant, 1ncarnadine and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) On 3/21/2020 at 7:24 PM, fire golem said: I’ve finished it. I loved it. There are parts that some people will probably not like. About the 4chan rumours: rofl...Abnett strikes again. EDIT: Not one of you can tell me that this is grounded in the lore, its simply new fluff. That is what seperates (for better or far worse) Abnett from the rest of the top authors. He just does whatever the hell he wants. Its not 'world building' its 'I made up these things called perpetuals, and I'm going to bend the entire scope of the meta story towards them in my novels!' Unreal. EDIT the SECOND: And I'll still get this, and I'll read it, and I'll have another book (with Prospero Burns, because Unremember is a comic book joke) to complain about for the next 5 years. EDIT the THIRD: And he gets the write the capstone of the entire Heresy!!!!! UNREAL. EDIT the FOURTH: Rohr, how can you say its the same? Its not remotely close. Edited March 21, 2020 by Scribe Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedor Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) I'm guessing if one perpetual was able to do what is being said in the spoilers they would need to be vastly powerful. Doesn't make much immediate sense to me without context, but i'm also guessing Dan may be setting up some twists and turns here for the last book or two. Does Grammaticus shag anyone in this book? Edited March 21, 2020 by Fedor Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFurioso Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Finally, one writer has the balls to answer all important questions. That means a lot. BLACK BLΠFLY and Llagos_Tyrant 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 On 3/21/2020 at 9:08 PM, RedFurioso said: Finally, one writer has the balls to answer all important questions. That means a lot. I HIGHLY doubt anything is definite in here, unless the Editor's have completely just given up, and allowed the author with the most clout to do as he pleases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astartes Consul Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Managed to pick mine up today and about 100 pages in - vintage Abnett writing so far and really refreshing to see major characters handled well, written at different pitches and given given some humanity. As ever, Abnett is the best, most immersive BL writer when it comes to both action and world building. Probably going to stay away from the thread until I’ve finished now. Lots of chat about the spoiler from 4Chan (which I deliberately avoided) that I don’t want to distract me. Considering though that the SoT series is the first time since Bill King’s short stories that this story has been told in narrative, I’m confused as to why people think that there is a clearly defined story that any of the writers are going to be breaking from? Unless we want to take Bill King’s work from the 90s as indisputable canon then almost all of this arc is going to be brand new work... That said, I’m fully prepared to look really stupid if the book now ends on some complete setting breaking cliff hanger or something... Taliesin, aa.logan and Roomsky 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 The major points of the story as established and existing for 20+ years should absolutely be 'indisputable canon'. The creation of a whole sub plot, that has no true need to exist, is vintage Abnett. That said, until I own and read the book, its very possible that just like people flipped about Master of Mankind 'rewriting the story' when it did no such thing, perhaps the spoiler itself is misleading or wrong, and he hasnt spun up some way to continue to push his creation into a setting that existed before him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Not exactly the case though, a good example of this was when Abnett wrote Legion. He discussed lots of ideas with Alan Merrett which were all approved, then Alan dropped the 'bombshell' that GW saw Alpharius as one of a twin. So unfortunately nothing in even the HH series is immune to any changes or additions. bluntblade 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) On 3/21/2020 at 9:08 PM, RedFurioso said: Finally, one writer has the balls to answer all important questions. That means a lot.But was it needed though?I don't have the book and I will read it after the series is finished Like I've mentioned already. But my overall thought is just like the Ryan Reynolds "but why?" meme. Reveal hidden contents Do we really need an explanation about how the Primarchs came to be? Do we really need yet another perpetual revealing to be of such importance? People went nuts because of the shoehorned Cawl and now we got a entirely new perpetual (something some still are struggling to accept) which 1) is the "mother" of the Primarchs 2) scattered them across the Galaxy Wh-why?!? It was a perfect yet only hinted explanation that the gods were responsible for scattering them. Heck, even Argel Tals vision (which could either be true or Not but in my headcanon, it is true) was a perfect way of delivering it. It made sense that the pantheon wanted to sabotage their great enemies masterpiece. This takes away of the great conflict behind the scenes. It downgrades chaos' capabilities. And one could further say that the entire Warhammer 40k setting including HH and SoT is all her fault. A new perpetual. A female. Just like Eve. One person to blame for mankinds suffering. Dude, seriously? I'll read it. I'll enjoy most of it because it's Dan we're talking about. I wish I had just an thimble of his talent. But this time, it really feels like he was allowed to do as he pleased which I can't believe as each book and concept was discussed in group sessions. So either I'm just missing something here or something happened in those sessions and I'm hoping for the former. Keep in mind, this is entirely my humble opinion. Take it with a Thunderhawk full of salt. I don't need the SoT to be lexicanum articles turned novels, explaining everything I never asked for... My hope is that I get the spoilers entirely wrong. Edited March 21, 2020 by Kelborn Shinros, choppyred, DarkChaplain and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 THANK YOU. Kelborn 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJF Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) On 3/21/2020 at 7:48 PM, DarkChaplain said: On 3/21/2020 at 7:24 PM, fire golem said: I’ve finished it. I loved it. There are parts that some people will probably not like. About the 4chan rumours: Reveal hidden contents They're true. Sorry, Scribe. Well, . There goes my interest in the book. That's both demystifying a ton of aspects about the entire setting and particular characters and retconning in stuff that's just not very interesting in itself. Guess I can wait those many months til the ebook/audiobook releases. Or another year or three, maybe. It's always the Abnett novels that go this deep down the bum on lore changes, huh? And people got pissy when Laurie dared to have Malcador tell his dying "friend" the Heresy was totally planned, honest, you can die in peace now. I can't see this going well. With the added context, it might be salvageable, depending on how Abnett tells it. Reveal hidden contents It's no surprise that the Emperor used someone's genes besides his to create the Primarchs, mind. I just dislike that this person is still alive and free, nevermind in the know. The Emperor having many names, one of which being Neoth, isn't too bad either - he was implied to be numerous figures throughout history, anyway. We also knew that the Emperor was into elevating humanity as a species. But having this woman, who is still alive and well, scatter the Primarchs? That's just really lame. Keep in mind that this could easily get retconned in the future, HH very much works like that especially when it comes to Abnetts work. It wouldnt be the first time other authors stepped in and "clarified" what Abnett actually meant. It happened before with Alpha Legion and Space Wolves and their lore established in Legion and Prospero Burns. Edited March 21, 2020 by LJF Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 On 3/21/2020 at 10:27 PM, LJF said: Keep in mind that this could easily get retconned in the future, HH very much works like that especially when it comes to Abnetts work. It wouldnt be the first time other authors stepped in and "clarified" what Abnett actually meant. It happened before with Alpha Legion and Space Wolves and their lore established in Legion and Prospero Burns. We dont have time for ADB to fix his work again. Noserenda 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 (edited) Given the coordination and likely prospect of Dan and ADB writing book 7 and book 8 they’re already on top of it. Reveal hidden contents Again, there’s no context given to who this lady is or what her stake in this is beyond the perpetuals going to meet her. I’m not seeing what’s changed by this. Besides the Shamans, there was nothing here before. Edited March 21, 2020 by Marshal Rohr Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 On 3/21/2020 at 10:35 PM, Marshal Rohr said: Given the coordination and likely prospect of Dan and ADB writing book 7 and book 8 they’re already on top of it. I'm not gonna bother worrying about it, because no, ADB wont simply counter whatever is in this book. This is just another thing that happens when Abnett enters the scene. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/359800-siege-of-terra-saturnine-by-dan-abnett/page/10/#findComment-5494499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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