War of the Spider

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Well post the mechanicum and knights book it's our turn gang! Custodes are hunting Fabius and friends along side the sisters of silence and assassins.

 

 

We aren't alone though apparently the death guard have a rotten bone to pick as well.

 

Here is hoping the talon key word gets spread both to sisters and assassins as that would be just beautiful.

[AfroCampbell]

Wouldn't it be amazing if they included the "Talon's Of the Emperor" keyword to Assassins.... 

dream-state over, I thoroughly doubt they will, but still, would be awesome and fluffy. 

 

Hopes for Assassins:

1) maybe some form of Stratagem for representing sabotage etc before game starts

2) not going to happen, but would be epic if they added the 2 other clades that don't have models currently 

 

SoS:

1) A multi-part captain sister HQ would be epic

2) new elite 

 

Custodes:

1) literally anything would be epic

2) a smaller scale flyer 

 

 

realistically = none of the above 

Edited March 29, 2020 by AfroCampbell

[CaptainMarsh]

I am expecting the following: When you add SoS to a Custodes Detachment or a Custodes to a SoS detachment, they gain the Talons of the Emperor keyword and also do not lose any of their special benefits and rules, including The Emperor's Chosen. That Talons keyword will then key into a number of stratagems and perhaps a new rule or two. Beyond new strategems there may be new WT and Relics for Custodes. I do expect strategem support for AC, SoS, and Talons.


What I think is very possible: There may be a single datasheet displaying a genetic SoS HQ along with printed in book rules for Valerian and Aleya. That generic SoS HQ will just be a normal model without any extra options, likely with a new rule. WT and Relics for SoS.

[balordazul]

I really hope we get new Talons rules but I don't like GW calling it a Torchbearer fleet.  I'm more concerned it is a one off campaign rule set put together to fast with little forethought.  

 

I would love to see Talons rule with current three SoS units counting as troops.  None of them are good enough to be elites but I understand why this was done via the index and allies system.

 

We now know Asurma is the SoS faction leader but we will likely not see her for a long time.  The lore is set for them to be in an active state of rebuilding vs combat ready.  Currently they are under supported in the lore with money, equipment and active bodies.  They also know very little of their past and overall are a hot mess.  But I like this as it gives GW a active reason to slowly development them overtime and not rush them out as a SoB knockoff.  

 

Adding in Officio Assassinorum into a new take on Talons would be cool as a WD rule set is not all that satisfactory compared to having your rules in a book.

 

We will also have a box set with a bigger chance to see more new Chaos units then AC, SoS or assassins.  I do think GW has more AC units already designed and slotted into their back pocket for a later date but they do this for all factions now days.  Unless we get a new codex I think we will likely not see any new AC besides the main stream release of Valerian and Aleya.  If I end up to be wrong here I will be happily surprised but getting a solid or heavy release would break the pattern of the PA releases.

Edited March 29, 2020 by balordazul

[Noserenda]

Ive high hopes for at least one Sister kit so they can be played "pure" rather than needing Custodes to function, ive been listening to the Dark Imperium novels on audible and Sisters Officers/Lone Oblivion knights are still a thing there :) 

[ThePenitentOne]

SoS need a generic HQ and a troop choice to be playable without Custodes.

 

Being joined via Talons gives them options, but it will be easy to overlook giving them what they need due to the combo. This is why I see it as kind of a blessing and I curse; I have zero interest in Custodes but I would field a detachment of Sos in a heartbeat.

 

I wish Vanguards, Outriders and Spearheads weren't a liability for how few CP they offer, and the Null Maiden Vanguard is even worse. Before GW blasted the CP rewards for Battalions and Brigades, you could take those smaller specialist detachments without getting murdered on the CP game. Now it's double Battalion, Brigade or lose.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

The longest of shots but I believe it said "new rules for Custodes and SOS"... possibly a redo of the FW rules for all the models except Valdor and the Krole?

[Noserenda]

Id love it if they did but FW rules in a GW publication would be a new high even if theyve centralised rules writing. I suspect they might be in the new FW indexes though. Id like to see rules for the characters too tbh, either as generic versions or hell even themselves as historical special characters have plenty of precedent and we know Valdor at least definitely had plenty of career post heresy. 

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Id love it if they did but FW rules in a GW publication would be a new high even if theyve centralised rules writing. I suspect they might be in the new FW indexes though. Id like to see rules for the characters too tbh, either as generic versions or hell even themselves as historical special characters have plenty of precedent and we know Valdor at least definitely had plenty of career post heresy.

Coinciding with the new index releases would be amazing. I hope gw is keeping all their rules writers busy actually working on content and lore while they work from home ha!

 

Would love a new book on Custodes units and paint schemes from FW. Keep the rules digital but some sort of Custodes index Apocrypha would be soooooooo amazing.

[swordofmandulis]

Hopefully they do it properly,

 

Make Talons of the Emperor an actual thing, rather than just a way to tack on SOS and not integrate them properly.

 

A pure Custodes/Talons buff, either a single rule or a multifaceted system akin to tides or doctrines.

 

Stratagem support, we all know this one is desperately needed.

 

As always, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment

[Brother Captain Ed]

*crosses fingers*pleasedon'tsuckpleasedon'tsuckpleasedon'tsuck

 

I'm a simple man with simple needs.

[Prot]

I'm definitely concerned. This is a 3 + faction book and someone usually loses in those cases. 

 

Custodes need something very considerable in this age of killy codex creep.

[balordazul]

Guys don't hold high expectation here just look at PA as a whole and remember this is the end of an edition campaign designed to boost GW revenue along with giving the community something fun.  We have seen this in the past editions.  Expect more substantial changes next edition and we will likely not see FW in any GW main publication right now as they would likely do that with a new edition.  This would be a selling point in a ad campaign to bring people back to 40k or to build hype.

 

We still have another set of previews on the 4th and we still have a chance to get one more surprise.

 

We are either getting the setup in the story to the next edition Chaos primaris equivalent or a tiny chance to see them in the box set as part of Bile's renegade force taking on AC, SoS and Assassins.  I'm not sure how GW would do a three way box with DG without making the factions really small or the price point to high.  

[dice4thedicegod]

Where are the end of edition rumors coming from? AFAIK, any “new edition “ is likely to just be print of 8th incorporating FAQs and errata.

[balordazul]

I'm not sure who or where they started but there has been rumors we could see a new edition this summer July ish was the speculation as that is about the time in the year we seen new editions.  

Right now I'm looking at the broad GW patterns over the last few editions and yes GW can always break patterns. All the codexes are out, CSM second release was really a reprint with SM only getting small core changes vs a sweeping codex wide updates.  Yes the impact was great but not sweeping changes like what you normally see between codexes.  At the end of 6th and 7th GW did similar campaigns with low overhead on GW's side providing us with neat short term rules.  This keeps the hobby active at the end of release cycle and this normally followed by a new edition.

 

We still don't have a living rule set and it is not the community or the game designers that makes these larger plans but the upper business focused individuals that run GW.  I will say 8th has been much better for the game and the community then 6th and 7th but a new edition brings in a lot of money and this is not unique to GW.  Most of these items are things people already know or at least have parts floating around in their heads.  Always follow the money!

 

Also this is my opinion and observations not try to lay down gospel or trying to get anyone to agree with me.  People are always welcome to their own opinions hopes and dreams. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by balordazul

[dice4thedicegod]

I'm not sure who or where they started but there has been rumors we could see a new edition this summer July ish was the speculation as that is about the time in the year we seen new editions.

 

Right now I'm looking at the broad GW patterns over the last few editions and yes GW can always break patterns. All the codexes are out, CSM second release was really a reprint with SM only getting small core changes vs a sweeping codex wide updates. Yes the impact was great but not sweeping changes like what you normally see between codexes. At the end of 6th and 7th GW did similar campaigns with low overhead on GW's side providing us with neat short term rules. This keeps the hobby active at the end of release cycle and this normally followed by a new edition.

 

We still don't have a living rule set and it is not the community or the game designers that makes these larger plans but the upper business focused individuals that run GW. I will say 8th has been much better for the game and the community then 6th and 7th but a new edition brings in a lot of money and this is not unique to GW. Most of these items are things people already know or at least have parts floating around in their heads. Always follow the money!

 

Also this is my opinion and observations not try to lay down gospel or trying to get anyone to agree with me. People are always welcome to their own opinions hopes and dreams.

Did previous editions have the equivalent of chapter approved?

[balordazul]

 

Did previous editions have the equivalent of chapter approved?

 

 

 

Are you asking about an annual pay for points errata that should be free?_{(personal grievance of this format)} Or did GW ever make an attempt in the past to try to keep up with the edition and work on balance?  Chapter approved is not unique to this edition in name but more in form.  We did get a better head of GW that turned a very disconnected company to something much better.  Is it perfect? I don't think so but it was much better then anything we had seen in years.

 

But 6th ed had a very short life and 7th was basically 6.5.  When you look at 3rd, 4th and 5th it took vastly longer to come out with each codex and the life cycle of the edition was much longer.  On the other hand we also would see massive army redesigns or heavy releases compared to two or three kits during the fast release cycles of 6th through 8th.

 

If you looked at the indexes when this edition came out some of us run the basic probability math to work out some base lines and saw that some units and options just were way out of alinement from the rest.  So seeing point rebalancing was not a shock but having it tied to a an errata behind a paywall of chapter approved was a personal disappointment for me at least.  We also finally had GW contacting play groups outside of warhammer world in 8th to get a wider baseline in feedback and this was a wonderful change.

 

I personally believe there is not a perfect game even the chess argument is silly as you are providing a flavorless bubble of a game.  40k has so many moving parts it is a nightmare to try to keep it balanced.  I have worked with a table top game company in the past as part of a QnA and design feedback member.  Game design is hard, testing results can easily be incorrect or misleading based on feedback and what is provided or omitted.  The people in control of the projects have to do the best they can with the data and their own opinions but we are only human.  Plus business politics are involved and as we all know that can get messy.

 

Again these are my observations and opinions and I'm sure by me even stating my opinion I have angered some so much that they have declared exterminatus on some poor souls and will tell me how much of a bad person I am.

Edited March 30, 2020 by balordazul

[Dallas Drake]

Guys don't hold high expectation here just look at PA as a whole and remember this is the end of an edition campaign designed to boost GW revenue along with giving the community something fun. We have seen this in the past editions. Expect more substantial changes next edition and we will likely not see FW in any GW main publication right now as they would likely do that with a new edition. This would be a selling point in a ad campaign to bring people back to 40k or to build hype.

 

We still have another set of previews on the 4th and we still have a chance to get one more surprise.

 

We are either getting the setup in the story to the next edition Chaos primaris equivalent or a tiny chance to see them in the box set as part of Bile's renegade force taking on AC, SoS and Assassins. I'm not sure how GW would do a three way box with DG without making the factions really small or the price point to high.

I play Custodes and DG. I’m ready to be so utterly underwhelmed on two fronts. I hope I’m so very wrong!

[balordazul]

To be clear I'm not trying to be a downer but I have seen a number of communities excited about a PA releases and setting the bar way to high and then angry about what they got.  Note: one of my other armies is Black Templars. :)

 

I do believe that GW has a stock of models / kits for every faction ready to move to manufacturing when they deem it is a good time to release them and make some money.  We still have the preview for the 4th and there is a chance we could see something cool. 

 

@Dallas Drake I have been playing DG from 3rd and would love to see the monster in the DG artwork but it is fairly close to something from starcraft. :(

 

I hope more toys and goodies for everyone as we all want our friend and gaming life partners to enjoy the hobby not have have a stagnant army.

[sairence]

In fairness, the hype and expectation people built up around Black Templars was kinda weird...it just kept becoming more and more outlandish rumours with no basis in any GW announcements. Just people bouncing their wishlist off each other and for some reason taking those for gospel.

 

I don't think there's going to be much in the way of changes to units, as that just hasn't been the widespread pattern for PA. So the Custodes FW units probably won't see any changes to data sheets or point costs.

 

My main interest in this is Sisters...I would like for them to get a rule that their squads, maybe even just the Bolters, can count as troops in a pure SoS detachment, and stay as elites in a custodes-one. If they got some kind of neg hit modifier like the Culexus has (though not as strong), that'd be cool and would help with one of their biggest issues, survivability. I would also like their aura to be expanded on. Have it be dependent on model count instead of units, as that wouldn't actively discourage larger units, or increase the range for larger units...atm they just fail to be effective against 1k Sons, even though that should be one of their premier match ups, because the Sons can stay out of range. I'd also like to see it affect demonic invun saves. I loved the description of how demons lost their warp-spawned appearance and effects when coming into a null's range in the first Watchers of the Throne and would like to see that adapted into rules.

 

But ultimately...since I don't think we'll see a generic HQ datasheet, I think they won't get much in the way of stand alone rules and will mainly be something like "you can take SoS in a Custodes detachment of Valerian and Aleya are one of your HQ choices". Would love to be proven wrong on this, as I have about 60 of the ladies and would like to play them without the golden boys.

 

Beyond all that, I'm stoked that they're giving Assassins additional rules. I would imagine some kind of bonus for bringing an Execution Force, or cp-purchasable buffs for an Assassin detachment to make that choice more distinct from the choose-your-killer strategem.

Edited March 31, 2020 by sairence

[Prot]

I think the big 'news' for Custodes in PA is going to be the combination of their forces with SoS. 

 

Really in a nutshell I feel since release the two facets I really feel have changed about the army over time is:

1. Too squishy. Anyone can fall victim to bad dice rolls, but the amount I roll now on average to keep a guy alive feels 10 x what it used to be. I know that's an exaggeration but at some point you simply aren't making those saves.

 

2. Damage. This is kind of a result of number 1. Basically if you are experiencing a truck load more incoming damage, it makes your paltry outgoing damage seem even more... paltry-ier.  :)

 

I know one thing that won't get touched... the Forgeworld stuff which is a substantial part of my collection. I should have known really... I literally just ordered my Callidius Forgeworld tanks just as GW had reacted to Geoff Robinson's beating (they were there I believe to witness it or they would never have a clue). The units have never recovered from the resulting nerfs.

[balordazul]

It is a shame we lost Geoff as he really was an awesome gamer and the AC liaison or whatever the term GW uses for the official feedback person for that particular faction from outside of the company.  That is a tough thankless job that he had taken on.

[ThePenitentOne]

A generic HQ Sister with two looks + rules that make Sisters troops would absolutely be all I need to make this book/ release awesome. You know, they could also re-release the Talons box, even as a limited run to entice new players to start an army.

 

I could see a new model or unit for each of two or even three of the four factions in the book. 

 

As for edition stuff, I can understand the rationale of those who hypothesize a 9th- the pattern of a] rebooting editions once all existing Codices have been printed and b] finishing an edition with a campaign is common enough that it's a fair hypothesis. But if it comes at all, it'll be a minor update that doesn't invalidate codexes. Each codex update is a replacement. 

 

I think it's more likely that we won't see a 9th for a while. I think they might actually take some time to expand the range. I'm holding out for Fulgrim, a Big DE release that gives our characters back, hopefully as a Commorragh kill team box, a playable Kroot army and of course, an Imperial Agents Dex. None of that happens if we get a 9th.

[.Torch.]

I think there's two ways this could go:

 

The Wishlist Universe:

Constantin Valdor in a plastic Telemon dreadnought.

All Forgeworld units reprinted and their points dropped.

 

Reality:

Talons Rules putting Custodes and Sisters of Silence in the same list.

Extra stratagems that buff both Custodes and Sisters of Silence when used together.

Printed rules for Valerian and Aleya.

 

I don't think Sisters will be made a Troops, as it doesn't fit lore wise. They are meant to be a diminished order. I don't think it's out of the question that we will see a Sisters HQ though.

 

It's unfortunate that the current world climate has delayed the Psychic Awakening release, but there are worse problems in the world right now. It's still annoying have to wait though.

[Noserenda]

Well they arent that diminished, i mean they are accompanying every Torchbearer fleet, every crusade fleet, manning black ships and still off doing their own things too. Thats massively more than any marine Chapter and they still get troops choices, lots of them in fact :P