New PA Engine War Range - What are you excited for?

[DanPesci]

So with GW starting to reopen warehouses, and Engine War mentioned in the weekend update, it hopefully wont be too long before we see some rules for our new kits.

 

I'm super bored already with my work week due to lockdown, so thought it'd be nice to start a discussion on what units people are excited for, and why (is it simply the models, or potential to fill gaps in the army etc).

 

Obviously this is a bit of conjecture until we see the actual rules/points.

 

 

The unit im most excited for is the serbyrys sulphurhounds.

 

Not only do they look great/ridiculous, but I can see them hopefully solving an issue ive been having.

 

I currently have a unit of 2 kastellans in my list that I use for horde clearance and as a distraction carnifex. However some games they just roll badly due to their 4+ (even with a dominus nearby).

 

I can see the sulphurhounds filling a very similar anti-screen role (if their flamers are decent - i would love it for these to be incendine combustors), whilst also being more flexible for gaining board control early game. The flamers also make them decent for screening things like genestealers (whereas shooty kastellans are useless unless taking massive blobs for overwatch - and even then you can potentially end u with 500+ points of robots locked in combat).

 

Id expect points for these to be somewhere around the 30-40 pt mark so if I can swap the 2 kastellans for 5-6 of these guys, that could be interesting.

[painting.for.my.sanity]

I absolutely agree on the Serbyrys Sulphurhounds.

 

It'll be interesting to see what their rules are/what all those different pistols can do, but given that they look awesome, and that regardless of what their pistols do, fast moving flamers should make a mess of screens, I'll be picking up a box.

[Magos Takatus]

I am more interested for the Cavalry rather than the Pteraxii (?). I think I'm more interested in the Sulphurhounds unless the Raiders have something clever up their sleeves. As for the flier, I think the bomber variant is most interesting to me, though I will be looking into the options for the gunship before I make any concrete plans.

[Prot]

I instantly liked the look of the Hounds, but I have a feeling they won't be close combat type units. I actually am hoping for a melta shot of some sort. I have zero to deal with Knights (T8) right now.... except other Knights. I think the day of the Onager is over for me personally. 

 

I don't use Kastelans anymore either. I have 4 painted up that just sit now. Too expensive, too situational. 

 

Two big things changed since we had 8th ed rules for our Onagers and Kastellans: assault armies got much, much faster (and trickier to deal with), and shooty armies got a lot killier.

 

So as predominantly a shooty army with some assaulty tricks, I'm looking forward to a deadlier force enhanced by army wide rules, over and above anything else.

 

The Copter thing is still really a wild card for me. Same for the bird men. Infiltrators already do a mediocre job of coming out of nowhere and hitting infantry. 

 

So for me I think I want to see a Doctrine type ability. I want to see something like the Kastellan robot protocols kind of adopted for army wide T1-T2-T3 type rules. 

 

I just played the new Tau for the first time with my Admech... wow. The damage output is sick. They feel like an 'aura' farm and their Prototype weapons took the few mediocre units they had and gave me a very hard time. 

 

Personally I love the Skorpius, so I'm just looking for PA rules above all else. 

[DanPesci]

 I think I'm more interested in the Sulphurhounds unless the Raiders have something clever up their sleeves. 

 

I think the way its going to work is the sulphur hounds are the tooled up ones weapon wise, but the raiders are going to get some extra special rules (outflank/infiltrate/dustcloud etc) - although even with that im cant really see the use of rifles riding around with 2-3 galvanic rilfes?

 

 

 

 

The Copter thing is still really a wild card for me. Same for the bird men. Infiltrators already do a mediocre job of coming out of nowhere and hitting infantry. 

 

I already have 3 squads of infiltrators so have similar thoughts on the pteraxii, I dont see how they are going to be that different in what they do unless those flamer weapons can be in range when they deepstrike (which id doubt)

 

 

 

 

So for me I think I want to see a Doctrine type ability. I want to see something like the Kastellan robot protocols kind of adopted for army wide T1-T2-T3 type rules. 

 

 

The canticles to an extent already do this though? Albeit some arent great.

 

I would be very suprised if we don't see some sort of rewrite for them, even if its just changing a couple so they're actually useful.

E.g. If we got an anti-psyker type canticle that would be nice.

Or if the 'reroll 1s' to hit one is changed to '+1 to hit' so you actually have a decision to make between that and shroudpsalm.

 

However something as powerful as the kastellans 'shoot twice' ability seems like it would be a touch OP if it was army wide :)

Edited May 4, 2020 by DanPesci

[painting.for.my.sanity]

Weapons preview is up - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/04/additional-armaments-for-adeptus-mechanicusgw-homepage-post-1/ - the head flamers can be used in combat :O

[Kraken]

Weapons preview is up - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/04/additional-armaments-for-adeptus-mechanicusgw-homepage-post-1/ - the head flamers can be used in combat

And the Pteraxii flamers have 12" range.

Delicious deepstrike barbecue.

[Prot]

 

 

 

 

So for me I think I want to see a Doctrine type ability. I want to see something like the Kastellan robot protocols kind of adopted for army wide T1-T2-T3 type rules. 

 

 

The canticles to an extent already do this though? Albeit some arent great.

 

I would be very suprised if we don't see some sort of rewrite for them, even if its just changing a couple so they're actually useful.

E.g. If we got an anti-psyker type canticle that would be nice.

Or if the 'reroll 1s' to hit one is changed to '+1 to hit' so you actually have a decision to make between that and shroudpsalm.

 

However something as powerful as the kastellans 'shoot twice' ability seems like it would be a touch OP if it was army wide

 

 

Well we can almost assume an army wide ability if your army is pure Admech (+Knights???). Canticles are okay, but predominantly that's a side show. Cover is okay, but a lot of stuff negates it, and additional AP is everywhere now... it's been brought in abundance since Admech Codex came out. We never got a sprinkle of that yet. We are over due.

 

Looking at these new units with their lethargic AP, I would say it's largely possible to have 'tactics' that may raise AP as well as other things. 

 

On that note the new units so far are sadly doing nothing for me. More S4? No thanks. I have this by the truck load and I have to dump all of it into 2 wound models in cover already. I see very little shifting in playstyle. 

 

To me I'll keep my T3 units with 2-3 Strength 4 shots that do next to nothing firmly implanted in my Troops selection.  One Skorpius Dunerider will do similar damage while keeping my best close combat units safe and giving move block, plus board coverage. 

 

There has to be some real rules there they aren't revealing in these units. S4 -1 is not going to have people dropping 70 bucks CAD per kit on 3-5 models.  Either they're holding back (very possibly) or it's up to the flyer. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Prot

[DanPesci]

I agree strength 4 on the flamers seem a little underwhelming (especially on the riders where it looks so much like a 'heavy'but the sulphur breath will hopefully still be good to do what i need (horde clearing)

 

It being only S4 also hopefully means the points for them are fairly low, if you can get 6 flamers under 200pts, that can move, advance (which is excellent if they retain stygies pregame move)...fire, then charge and use those flamers in combat...youre going to still clear screens.

 

If theres a strat to give the flamers +1 to wound or +1 damage syberus/pteraxi become interesting.

 

The flechette carbine guys at 24" will put in work but no more than DSing infiltrators. And if you have them on the table T1 theyre way too easy to remove. The only way I can see these being usable is if they have some sort of fire and move strat to keep them out of bolter range.

 

If theyre the same price as infiltrators id probably still stick with deepstriking and having goads/powerswords.

Edited May 4, 2020 by DanPesci

[Karhedron]

The guys with flechete carbine are disappointing. They are basically Imperial Swooping Hawks and I haven't seen anyone make serious use of them in 8th. Both flamer weapons look useful assuming the points are reasonable. GW has a habit of overpricing flamer weapons.

[SpiritFox22]

Yeah the Flechette Carbines to me are utterly disappointing.  They're lesser Rad carbines at best and step far too much on the Infiltrators toes for use.  They'll need to be cheaper than the Sicarian bros to be worth taking even with the flamer option.  Though the 12in range on the flamers is nice, but as said above they'll probably be overpriced.

 

I'm just hoping that the Raiders have something decent to bring to the table besides potentially being the cheapest FA option for maxing a list.  The Revolver brings hope as it's actually decent for a single shot option, but if they're stuck with Galvanic rifles then I really don't see them doing much.  I'm seriously hoping for an Assualt 2 Carbine with 24in range and AP -1 but that's a LOOOOONG shot. 

 

Sulphurhounds though with the flamer muzzle at least means they're gonna be a pain T1 with the ability to Move advance and torch something.  Though with the plethora of what looks to be Phosphor weapons they're undoubtedly going to cost more. 

[brother_b]

Interesting. As for PA I hope they go back and rework canticles or let us choose different flavors, maybe melee set of canticles, ranged, or defensive. I’d also love the onagers to get the move half shoot twice treatment would make them amazing.

 

I like the bird flamer dudes, I’m interested in what the horse dogs do, and I’m hopeful for the flyer.

[Gaz1858]

I know we still have to see the rest of the rules but its pretty underwhelming so far.

 

The sulphurhounds are potentially interesting but it will depend on the rest of their rules and cost

 

Archeo revolver is nice but its only the Alpha that can take it so  not really worth it unless theres points left over

 

Flechette Carbine - as others have said the Interceptors do this now so again will need to see additional rules

 

Phosphor Torch - Yeh not bad at 12", might see some use

 

The talons were the main thing that caught my attention and thats due to the Heroic Intervention rule. I assume there will be a new strat focused on that. If so it would be nice to use that on a unit of Fulgurites.....

[Lord_Caerolion]

I can't see Doctrines being copied over, as that's Marines new special thing, after Chapter Tactics got rolled out to everyone. More likely that Canticles will get a boost, maybe introducing some Forge World specific ones, given other races got subfaction psychic powers.

[DanPesci]

 

Archeo revolver is nice but its only the Alpha that can take it so  not really worth it unless theres points left over

 

 

Yeah that may have been an interesting unit if they could all take the pistols. Just having one on the leader is fairly pointless, especially if the rest of the unit has rifles and probably doesnt want to get into pistol distance.

 

 

 

SpiritFox22

 

 Though with the plethora of what looks to be Phosphor weapons they're undoubtedly going to cost more. 

 

 

phosphor blast pistols are currently 1 point (unless my Bscribe is wrong) and is 12" S5 ap-1 ignores cover.

Sure itll push up points but not actually THAT much (itll be the flamers that do if anything), and for once its actually on a unit that will get use from them (ie unlike sticking them on a vanguard alpha)

Edited May 5, 2020 by DanPesci

[DanPesci]

I’d also love the onagers to get the move half shoot twice treatment would make them amazing.

 

 

 

True but that is pretty much the leman russ/guard shtick is it not (and even then its turret only - having that on something like the icarus array would be insane)

 

If you let an onager have the capabilty to shoot twice your gonna have to add a load of points to it (it already ignores movement penalties)

 

For the neutron onager at least, the only thing they need to do to fix that IMO is make if 2 shots instead of d3.

 

 

I think we'll definitely see canticles being updated....but 'shoot twice' seems crazy. However you're not the first person to mention this....

 

so i put this to you all......do people think that if some (or all) of our guys being able to shoot everything twice akin to kastellans (either through strats /FW dogma or canticles) would be OP or not?

 

I dont play tournament level, but im 6-0 against my mates pretty competitive Guard list (im playing stygies) - If i turned up to our next game and revealed half my guys get to now shoot twice i doubt he'd even bother deploying

 

Personally i feel the game is already too killy. Id much prefer to see armies starting to get defensive bonuses rather offensive ones (ie "oh well marines now have silly damage output so we need EVEN MOAR damage to cope") - otherwise you just end up in a situation where whoever has first turn has bonkers firepower and auto wins the game.

 

 

p.s. apologies for double post - I am positively ITCHING for some more rules reveals.

Edited May 5, 2020 by DanPesci

[Prot]

I guess they've shown us what they want to for the copter variants. Lascannon variant, Heavy Congnis stubbers. A bomber variant with Seismic shells which I would assume have a slow effect? 

 

Wouldn't it be an interesting way of giving us an AP boost by having the Seismic shells reduce saves by 1 on targeted units? 

[DanPesci]

I guess they've shown us what they want to for the copter variants. Lascannon variant, Heavy Congnis stubbers. A bomber variant with Seismic shells which I would assume have a slow effect? 

 

Wouldn't it be an interesting way of giving us an AP boost by having the Seismic shells reduce saves by 1 on targeted units? 

 

That would be awesome!

 

 

One thing I did notice is that the pteraxi talons say they get "+1 strength if you charge or perform a heroic intervention"

 

So possible strat for heroically intervening... or is this just the standard wording on abilities like this?

[SpiritFox22]

 

One thing I did notice is that the pteraxi talons say they get "+1 strength if you charge or perform a heroic intervention"

 

So possible strat for heroically intervening... or is this just the standard wording on abilities like this?

 

 

Probably going to get a stratagem to allow Heroic interventions akin to what the Marines have, I'm betting around 6-7 generic stratagems and 1 per forgeworld added.  Will it be worth the CP, maybe depends if they're str3 or 4 base.  Str 3 I'll argue no unless they have a ton of attacks, Str 4 they'll be a decent threat.

 

 

 

SpiritFox22

 

 Though with the plethora of what looks to be Phosphor weapons they're undoubtedly going to cost more. 

 

 

phosphor blast pistols are currently 1 point (unless my Bscribe is wrong) and is 12" S5 ap-1 ignores cover.

Sure it'll push up points but not actually THAT much (it'll be the flamers that do if anything), and for once its actually on a unit that will get use from them (i.e. unlike sticking them on a vanguard alpha)

 

 

That's probably true, but if all the phospor esq weapons they get are Str 5 ap-1 I'm still expecting them to be a small chunk (3-10pts per gun).  With the Vanguard lets be honest the Rad Carbine has been by far the best option for the alpha, but that's more due to both Skitarii Alpha just not benefiting from anything besides an Omnispex.  Sure it's an option but the cancer gun is just better. 

 

Still dreading what the Raiders are going to get.  Seems like the Sulphurhounds are getting all the heavy equipment and the small snippet of them getting Move Advance and shooting pistols will make them at the very minimum good anti MEQ/GEQ with the flamers.  The Raiders from the only pictures I've seen just look like they're Rangers on dogs and if that's it they're probably going to be cheap filler at best.

Edited May 5, 2020 by SpiritFox22

[brother_b]

 

I’d also love the onagers to get the move half shoot twice treatment would make them amazing.

 

 

 

True but that is pretty much the leman russ/guard shtick is it not (and even then its turret only - having that on something like the icarus array would be insane)

 

If you let an onager have the capabilty to shoot twice your gonna have to add a load of points to it (it already ignores movement penalties)

 

For the neutron onager at least, the only thing they need to do to fix that IMO is make if 2 shots instead of d3.

 

 

I think we'll definitely see canticles being updated....but 'shoot twice' seems crazy. However you're not the first person to mention this....

 

so i put this to you all......do people think that if some (or all) of our guys being able to shoot everything twice akin to kastellans (either through strats /FW dogma or canticles) would be OP or not?

 

I dont play tournament level, but im 6-0 against my mates pretty competitive Guard list (im playing stygies) - If i turned up to our next game and revealed half my guys get to now shoot twice i doubt he'd even bother deploying :D

 

Personally i feel the game is already too killy. Id much prefer to see armies starting to get defensive bonuses rather offensive ones (ie "oh well marines now have silly damage output so we need EVEN MOAR damage to cope") - otherwise you just end up in a situation where whoever has first turn has bonkers firepower and auto wins the game.

 

 

p.s. apologies for double post - I am positively ITCHING for some more rules reveals.

 

Points well taken. I’d be ok with only neutronagers getting the move half bonus to double shoot . I concur that 20 Icarus shots would be extreme, and honestly wasn’t even thinking about them. Double firing Gatling leman Russ Commanders though is a thing right? Been a while since I faced guard. That’s fairly extreme to me too!

 

I’m not sure how I feel about a flat 2 shots, I guess I’d be fine with that actually.

 

As far as OP I don’t think this would push it to that level. I’m very interested in what you bring against the competitive guard list.

 

Cheers!

[KhorneHunter57x]

 

I’d also love the onagers to get the move half shoot twice treatment would make them amazing.

 

 

True but that is pretty much the leman russ/guard shtick is it not (and even then its turret only - having that on something like the icarus array would be insane)

 

If you let an onager have the capabilty to shoot twice your gonna have to add a load of points to it (it already ignores movement penalties)

 

Leman Russ, Fire Prism, and Repulsor Executioner. With the Executioner, however, it was a part of its rules from the start, rather than applied later on to an existing vehicle.

 

In the Fire Prism's case, I do not believe the points went up significantly, if at all...but its firepower was pitiful before it could shoot twice.

[Gaz1858]

I think if the whole army could shoot twice it would be OP.

 

Personally if there was a strat to allow some vehicles to auto fire max shots (3 vehciles within 6 of each other?) would be good without being OP as you have to pay CP for it.

 

Outside of that maybe a canticle that automatically allows every vehicle to heal d3 wounds and still be fixed by Priests

 

A reroll wound canticle? Just 1s maybe as I think anything else would be super powerful

[DanPesci]

 

Points well taken. I’d be ok with only neutronagers getting the move half bonus to double shoot . I concur that 20 Icarus shots would be extreme, and honestly wasn’t even thinking about them. Double firing Gatling leman Russ Commanders though is a thing right? Been a while since I faced guard. That’s fairly extreme to me too!

 

I’m not sure how I feel about a flat 2 shots, I guess I’d be fine with that actually.

 

As far as OP I don’t think this would push it to that level. I’m very interested in what you bring against the competitive guard list.

 

Cheers!

 

 

Hah yeah its easy to forget about the other onager options! The eradication ray would be super fun if it shot twice too

 

 

I play breacher heavy stygies which hurts guard/vehicle armies badly (bit more info in the spoiler below to not get too off topic for everyone else!):

 

 

 

Stygies Dual Batallion

 

Servitor Maniple Battalion

 

Dominus (prime hermeticon)

Dominus (field commander - servitor stuff)

 

Breachers x6 

Breachers x6

Vanguard x8 (2x arc rifle)

Vanguard x7  (2x arc rifle)

 

Infiltrators x5 (goads)

Infiltrators x5 (goads)

Infiltrators x5 (swords)

 

Servitors x4

Servitors x4

 

Neutron Onager w/stubbers

Neutron Onager w/stubbers

Neutron Onager w/stubbers

 

Battlion 2

 

Engineseer

Daedolosus

 

Rangers x5 - 2 arqebus

Rangers x5 - 2 arqebus

Rangers x5 - 2 arqebus

 

Kastellans x2 - Shooty

 

Fulgurite Priests x10

 

-------------

 

So the stygies -1 to hit hurts guard bad to begin with.

 

Because my onagers/breachers take up so much board space (12 breachers fills a LOT), and they can move and shoot without penalty (+ you have pregame moves if needed), its usually possible to get them to draw LOS on things like hiding basilisks/deathstrikes, whilst still being in dominus/daedolosus bubbles.

 

Because of the -1 to hit already, anything outside a tank commander i just need to bracket to have them hitting on 6s - and then i just ignore them for the rest of the game.

If they move in close, cool my breachers can deal with them (as they all effectively have powerfists).

 

The 3 units of infiltrators are also great at dropping in and tying up backline tanks etc.

 

The 6 arqebus also come in handy for taking that extra 1-2 wounds off a vehicle to bracket it (and mean his characters have to stay down unless he commits fire to getting rid of 5 man ranger squads)

 

He has problems with priority between onagers that are bracketing his leman russes, kastellans which are murdering a squad or two of guardsmen a turn, or the 2 large breacher  squads which are able to also pile the hurt on vehicles.

 

Ill admit he currently doesnt bring anything like scions, which could be a problem and negate stygies, but even then I have enough breachers/vanguard to screen pretty effectively.

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by DanPesci

[Prot]

I think if the whole army could shoot twice it would be OP.

 

Personally if there was a strat to allow some vehicles to auto fire max shots (3 vehciles within 6 of each other?) would be good without being OP as you have to pay CP for it.

 

Outside of that maybe a canticle that automatically allows every vehicle to heal d3 wounds and still be fixed by Priests

 

A reroll wound canticle? Just 1s maybe as I think anything else would be super powerful

 

 

I agree the whole army can't shoot twice. That's essentially a double turn for Admech. 

 

BUT on the otherhand look at Cacaphony for Chaos. Let's say it's limited to a few different types of units. Kataphron Robots have a very ugly, and dated fire twice mechanism. If it was a Strat, it would be more powerful, yet limited to CP resources. Maybe it's just 1 CP and limited to Kataphrons???

[DanPesci]

 

I think if the whole army could shoot twice it would be OP.

 

Personally if there was a strat to allow some vehicles to auto fire max shots (3 vehciles within 6 of each other?) would be good without being OP as you have to pay CP for it.

 

Outside of that maybe a canticle that automatically allows every vehicle to heal d3 wounds and still be fixed by Priests

 

A reroll wound canticle? Just 1s maybe as I think anything else would be super powerful

 

 

I agree the whole army can't shoot twice. That's essentially a double turn for Admech. 

 

BUT on the otherhand look at Cacaphony for Chaos. Let's say it's limited to a few different types of units. Kataphron Robots have a very ugly, and dated fire twice mechanism. If it was a Strat, it would be more powerful, yet limited to CP resources. Maybe it's just 1 CP and limited to Kataphrons???

 

 

What about something like this:

 

Binharic Overdrive (1CP) - At the start of your turn, pick a unit of kataphron breachers, destroyers or kastellan robots. That unit may choose to fire twice in the shooting phase or attack twice in the fight phase this turn. If the effected unit has a datasmith within 3" of it, reduce the cost of the stratagem to 0CP

 

 

 

 

Id take that. Even it it just applied to kastellans itd be a better way of them working (mixed squads could actually work), whilst making the datasmith useful

Edited May 6, 2020 by DanPesci