New PA Engine War Range - What are you excited for?

[Commissar Yossarian]

 

@DeStiny and Dan Pesci

It's stupid because the vast majority of auras worth caring about are units within X not models. So the enemy character can easily sit just outside 6" of the flyer and still cover the units they care about. The effect costs CP and the life of your flyer for something at best that will be a minor annoyance.

For the points and CP cost it's always going to be more effective denying enemy auras by killing the offending character then parking a vehicle in a convenient place to die in hopes of turning off an aura if your opponent happens to suffer a stroke between the end of your movement phase and the end of their movement phase/shooting phase dependant.

Doubling down to make bigger bubbles etc is just running further down the efficiency ladder. It's a neat idea with a dumpster fire implementation.

 

Eh there are a handful of things its useful against.  There are quite a few units that supply defensive benefits, that you can make a garunteed removal of.  Things that come to mind off the top of my head are the shadowseers -1 to wound (and new +6" range check) DG have some ones that buff their FNPs,  Custodes banners for -1 to hit, or the +1 fnp banner for DA etc.  Can also use to remove rerolls or bonuses from a unit you are about to charge w/ electros, dragoons, or the new sulphurhounds/pteraxxi.  IH defensive auras, darkshrouds etc.  There are uses, its not gamebreaking, but its 1 cp, I think for 1 cp it has enough situational uses you will occasionally find yourself using it.

  

You could use it to remove the 5++ and 5+++ bubble from Iron Hands, as an example.

  

 

I'll happily conceed that at some point someone will get great use out of it, win a game or whatever, but that kinda goes to the opponent having stroked out anyways. If you can land your giant flying base/model within 6" of a critical defensive character in the middle of an enemy castle while staying outside of 1" of everything around that character kudos to you (well shame on the enemy anyways).

 

I just don't see this coming up enough to ever be worth throwing points at. Also if you get that close to the enemy character why not just give em twin Las cannon to the face etc?

 

 

 

 

 

It's stupid because the vast majority of auras worth caring about are units within X not models. So the enemy character can easily sit just outside 6" of the flyer and still cover the units they care about. The effect costs CP and the life of your flyer for something at best that will be a minor annoyance.For the points and CP cost it's always going to be more effective denying enemy auras by killing the offending character then parking a vehicle in a convenient place to die in hopes of turning off an aura if your opponent happens to suffer a stroke between the end of your movement phase and the end of their movement phase/shooting phase dependant.

 

 

I get that its more efficient to kill characters full stop than just remove their aura but most assault armies want to be in combat turn 2 or will even have alpha strike elements - which generally means you don't have time to clear screens/get to their characters before they do what they want.

 

As noted above its probably much more useful to think of it in terms of removing defensive buffs for your own shooting, than removing the enemies offensive buffs.

 

E.g.

 

As a wolves player I often utlise storm caller psychic power (gives rune priest 6" cover bubble), followed by the cloaked by  the storm strat (-1 to hit bubble - this costs 3CP!) in order to have a hope of my guys reaching combat.

 

Both can be shut down by this flyer/1CP strat. 

 

Id still say against buff based assault armies it also has its uses. Place one 4-5 inches out in front of the unit you really don't want charged and pop the strat. You're now forcing someone to make a decision - focus fire on the flyer (which they may not want to do, or be able to take down (-2 to hit with stygies, -1 dmg) or potentially lose any charge/combat aura buffs. 

 

Is it going to be super useful every game? No. But it is far from useless.

So you're worried about having the enemy park something 4-5" inches closer to your assault based army that you can slingshot off of? That's there before you choose to move? That you would willingly move your character under and spend CP on needlessly.

 

Or you could do what any same assault based player would do and just wrap a target to not get shot at next turn with a +2" to charge and a 6" consolidate.

 

Minus to hit helps walking forwards to get into charge range, not to charge. So sure if you're walking an un-screened character forward to rely on successfully casting a pys power and drop 3CP to defend a tiny bubble of foot slogging troops I guess this could be scary? But I'd ask if you're trying to get X into combat why wouldn't you just deep strike your murder unit so they cannot be shot at whatsoever when you have access to +2" to charge?

 

Again I can appreciate the marginal edge cases for this but it's not something that's worth spending points on unless there is a big change in 9th. Scary defensive buffs you cannot reach at the center of a castle, and offensive abilities you cannot stop the enemy just walking around you.

 

If you're not hyper competitive and are playing against narrative armies, or someone using X because they like it/have it painted then by all means lots of GW trash has it's use since lots of things are narrative in nature rather than balanced or well thought out.

 

In the end though everything needs to be measured against an objective standard which tends to be how effective/efficient a unit/option/strategy is.

 

So the barrier to entry on this is base points of the flyer, cost of the gear, then a CP for a super marginal use case. The wargear's other know effect is a potential LD buff which is generally viewed as completely worthless, so even if you're in on the base flyer anyways for other game plan purposes are you really interested in spending more points to get it to do something counter to it's primary mission?

 

I'd have been much more interested if they gave the bomber the option to turn off a unit's aura rather than damaging it for X CP. But this, I'd be very surprised if it finds any meaningful place in any competitive list.

[DanPesci]

 

 

Having 6 Kastelan robots makes me happy to use it as often as possible. Also glad I magnetized my 6 Kataphrons way back in the day before we knew if  Vigilus was going to help them. I thin Grav might come out again. 

 

I can certainly see S7 robots being a thing. 

 

I've just finished 12 breachers (all glued haha), so going to have to stick with them for now, but I still love them. Having them at S7 with mars will still be really nice though as they already made good light transport busters with their d6dmg offsetting the S6.

 

Its been so long since Ive used grav I had to look up how it worked!  

[Gaz1858]

With the canticles and the like I wonder if you need a full Mars Det to have them?

 

The reason being I have been running mixed Dets more and more due the FW benefit not really being the reason I have taken certain units, its mainly for the Strats. 9" move on stygies, wrath of mars and so on. I havent seen anything yet that leads me to believe I will change this in a competitive sense

[DanPesci]

With the canticles and the like I wonder if you need a full Mars Det to have them?

 

The reason being I have been running mixed Dets more and more due the FW benefit not really being the reason I have taken certain units, its mainly for the Strats. 9" move on stygies, wrath of mars and so on. I havent seen anything yet that leads me to believe I will change this in a competitive sense

 

Thats actually  very good point, theres 2 ways I could see it handled

 

1. You have to have a full 'mars' list to take the 'mars canticle'

2. The canticle only affects the units with 'mars' keyword (so you lose the canticle benefits on the non-mars elements if takin mixed FW)

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

With the canticles and the like I wonder if you need a full Mars Det to have them?

 

The reason being I have been running mixed Dets more and more due the FW benefit not really being the reason I have taken certain units, its mainly for the Strats. 9" move on stygies, wrath of mars and so on. I havent seen anything yet that leads me to believe I will change this in a competitive sense

 

Thats actually  very good point, theres 2 ways I could see it handled

 

1. You have to have a full 'mars' list to take the 'mars canticle'

2. The canticle only affects the units with 'mars' keyword (so you lose the canticle benefits on the non-mars elements if takin mixed FW)

 

To be honest, I hope it will be number 1.

I dont want a mixed detachment to have another special Canticle every turn that counts for different units, makes things just complicated.

Plus I like a mono faction / chapter / whatever list more than a mixed one, so a bonus for keeping it thematic is a good thing for me.

Edited May 28, 2020 by DeStinyFiSh

[Ishagu]

These new abilities should only unlock in full mono armies, same as the Doctrines for Astartes.

[DeStinyFiSh]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

 

Nice stuff.

12 shots Helverin is nice as well as Avenger Gattling shot as a flamer.

And healing a single wound every turn is good for my Taranis Knights, makes them even tougher.

Edited May 28, 2020 by DeStinyFiSh

[DanPesci]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/28/new-rules-for-imperial-knights/

 

Nice stuff.

12 shots Helverin is nice as well as Avenger Gattling shot as a flamer.

And healing a single wound every turn is good for my Taranis Knights, makes them even tougher.

 

Agree, both are cool! Shaping up to be a solid release.

 

I still dont own a knight but lots of fun combo options may soon change that

[Black Knight]

Nothing over the top just some nice things to smooth out spikes in dice rolls. Not sure how much more power an extra attack does on a knight?

[Ishagu]

Helverin Strat is great, final nail in the coffin of a full 10 man Intercessor squad however. MSU or bust it would seem.

[Reigart]

Conceptually (before 9th edition rules say this can't happen) there could be some very fun combinations.  Using Knight of the COG strat, a questor mechanicus knight model may benefit from a canticle...meaning the mars +1 st canticle could affect an imperial knight.

 

Please let me know if I'm missing something.

[Black Knight]

I bet these new strats are Imperial Knight codex only, so if you take it with Admec you cannot use them? Thats my assumption as my codex is over there --> behind the kids toys and I need a servitor to clear the mess up to get to it.

[librisrouge]

I bet these new strats are Imperial Knight codex only, so if you take it with Admec you cannot use them? Thats my assumption as my codex is over there --> behind the kids toys and I need a servitor to clear the mess up to get to it.

You'd still get access to them, unless you're somehow taking Imperial Knights in an Adeptus Mechanicus detachment. Your admech detachment would unlock admech strategems and your IK detachment unlocks IK strats.

[Ishagu]

Hey yeah. That Knight of the Cog Strat could make my Knights very powerful when using the new Mars Canticle.

 

Some of the Castellan weapons would be pretty crazy.

[Kraken]

Interesting that the Sacristan Pledge only applies to Questor Mechanicus knights.

 

[Focslain]

Interesting that the Sacristan Pledge only applies to Questor Mechanicus knights.

 

 

Add that to the mark of the Omnimessiah and the knight is healing 2-4 wounds a round.... welp I know what I'm doing.

Edited May 29, 2020 by Focslain

[Magos Takatus]

Just realized this video has point values which B&C don't like. I've removed the link but can't see how to delete my post. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Magos Takatus

[SpiritFox22]

Well the Raiders being 14pts for a 3 wound model are going to be rather interesting for an opponent to deal with.  Their galvanic carbines are exactly what I was hoping for 18" Galvanic rifles with assualt 2, keeping the 6+ to hit rule for ap-1.  The real kicker is the Mortal wound mechanic along with the ability "Skirmishing Line" giving them a free 9" move before the game officially starts.  That and 3 attacks (1 saber 2 Clawed limbs) at str4 is decent.

 

The "Downside" from what I've seen leaked is the pistol on the Alpha is mandatory, but a whole 2 pts and it still has the carbine. Making a min squad of 3 cost 44pts and a max 128pts for 9-27 wounds.  These guys are going to be just straight annoying for any character heavy armies, though a max of 18 shots isn't anything to brag about.

 

Though I haven't seen the Sulphurhounds leaked if they have the same skirmishing line ability they're going to be a helluva consistent alpha strike unit.

[Commissar Yossarian]

Well I am pleasantly wrong. The price is right on the command uplink so while I don't see the strat playing all that much, free sh1t is good sh1t et Al.

 

Curious how the gun boat version stacks against the disintegrator to see if it has much of a place but seems reasonable.

 

The Mars canticle is still bonkers with the improved warlord trait and vigils servitor list. Cannot get over how nice that'll be.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Commissar Yossarian

[Ishagu]

I'm not one to complain about price, but a full squad of the riders is over £100.

[Magos Takatus]

That is pretty steep. I have a feeling that I'm going to be ordering quite a bit less than I first expected. I am still mashing the refresh button on the store.

[Ishagu]

Here's the thing. Having seen a lot of the rules I think the new units are amazing, the riders especially and the Copter.

 

The books will give AdMech the same level of boost on power as what Marines got. Some amazing stuff in there like 5+ FNP auras for servitors, great new strats.

 

I've not seen any relics as of yet. Does the book feature some?

[Hasuro]

So, we've rules here

https://imgur.com/gallery/NZLKQU9

[DeStinyFiSh]

What are the thoughts on Sulphur Hounds vs Raiders?

 

First I was Sulphur all day, but now seeing the rules I think I prefer the Pteraxi for the same job and Raiders don't look as bad as I thought...

[CaptainMarsh]

Someone has pointed out mistakes may exist in the points. Heavy Phosphor Blasters are listed as 0 points, when they are normally 15 points. This would make Dakka Kastellans 65 points. Speculation is that the Phosphor Carbine (the 1 in 3 weapon option for the Hounds) and the Heavy Phosphor Blasters got switched around, since the Carbine was listed as 15 points and the Blaster as 0. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen, but it could be.