BA and 9th Ed

[Indefragable]

Fraters,

 

As you'll be hearing soon if you have not already, it has been officially confirmed that 9th edition is coming out this summer 2020. 

 

 

********************************

Links:

• Official Warhammer Community stuff:  https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/23/the-big-warhammer-40000-previewgw-homepage-post-1/ 
• Rules changes overview (B&C) : http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364073-rules-preview/?p=5526253  
  Hidden Content

  from @Fenriwolf here on B&C: Stuff they are mentioning in the semi-humorous video that comes before actual rules talk

   

  "-more starting cp (less soup specifically mentioned)

  --using stuff from a codex will get you more CP,you can spend them to unlock more detachments from other armies + the usual stuff

   

  -tanks can fire in h2h (presented as answer to gretching bogging them down)

   

  -crusades are narrative rules (sounds like kill team advancement rules,but more complex and far reaching)

   

  -"explosive weapons deal maximum damage to hordes"

  --blast is a new type of weapon,good at blowing up mass infantry

   

  -new terrain rules

  --de-streamlining terrain rules since they feel they went overboard.New rules have models and terrains interacting better with regard to LoS and cover

   

  -flyers changes

  --new rules to better manage intweractions between infantry and flyers . Also new rules for strafing runs (including the fact they can get off the table without exploding at table's edge)

   

  -reserves

  --you can field in reserve stuff you coudlnt before to protect it from fire (or w/e)

   

  Hopefully they'll explain some more in the actual talk That's all of it for now

   

   

   

  Also they talked about a new app (what's that,the forth one?) that seems will be a bit more involved than just managing army building"

• Mike Brandt, one of the founders/organizers of the NOVA Open, is now a GW employee who will run their events. This is HUGE for making sure that RAW and RAI match up and are accepted around the world, rather than--as Mike himself stated--"...having events in Las Vegas use different custom rules from events in LA which differ from events in London and so on." The ramifications of this are very positive. I expect to see the gap between official rules and ITC-style things lessen for the betterment of all:
  Hidden Content

  "Playtesting is a vital component in the rules team’s unending efforts to make Warhammer amazing, all the time. With the new 40K, it was no different. Thousands of hours of games have been poured into refining the new rules set – many of them put in by the dedicated team of playtesters who heroically*** volunteer their time.

  What’s that like? How does it work? Well, to answer that, we turned to Mike Brandt. Best known as the organiser of the NOVA Open, one of the most highly-regarded wargaming conventions in the world (and home of the legendary NOVA Open Warhammer 40,000 tournament), Mike’s also been a Warhammer 40,000 playtester for years. We asked him what playtesting this new edition was like and here’s what he had to say:

  “I became a Warhammer 40,000 playtester in 2016, back when the Warhammer Studio was working on the last edition, to help deliver the “best version of Warhammer 40,000 ever” alongside notable hobbyists from across the world. We focused on establishing a rebalanced points baseline and integrating missions and terrain rules more fully into the core game experience.

  The bit I’m most excited about is the missions, which include modern mechanics and enable players to play to their army’s natural style (i.e. a sneaky army will behave in sneaky ways while a psychic army behaves in, um… I guess, ‘psychic’ ways). I think the Warhammer Studio has nailed this better than ever before, so I am excited to see 40K include more narratively fulfilling AND competitively balanced armies.” 

  

  In related news, Mike has actually joined us here in the Warhammer Community team, to head up our events and champion Warhammer all over the world. You’ll be seeing a lot more of his handiwork soon!****"  

   

   
• Primaris models leaks (B&C) : http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364067-new-primaris-space-marines-model-renders-leak/ 
• Necron models (since they were allies against the 'Nids, that kinda counts for us?) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364066-necrons-leak-new-necron-models/
• BIG deal: buy a 9th Ed print Codex, get the digital rules for free* : http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364077-9th-edition-print-codices-come-with-digital-rules/  *you know that means the print version will be more expensive
• Lore: Guy Haley and Nick Kyme are now narrative "leads" overseeing a HH-style multi-author sprawling novel series that covers "present day" 40k, from the Indomitus Crusade onwards. Idea is to (finally) tie together BL output with the main model/gaming output: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364071-dawn-of-fire/ 

 

My own take: 

9th edition seems to be the "finally" edition. As in, things we've been wanting to be (re-)introduced into the game and GW offering overall are finally arriving. Things like print-digital codex bundles, terrain and aircraft rules that make sense, even melee-focused primaris. 

 

Fingers crossed to see what else comes. 

 

 

*************************************

 

By all accounts it's Ultramarines vs New* Necrons as the poster factions. 

 

Likewise, rules adjustments are coming, with things like terrain and aircraft being completely reworked and the CP system getting an overhaul. 

 

Some new units, including Assault Intercessors as the poster-boys, appear inbound at some point as well.

 

I want to take this thread to cover a few items:

 

A. how all this new stuff will effect we Sons of Sanguinius

B. to provide a place where the folks who have been around a bit can help guide and temper the newer folks through a change to a new edition.

 

B above might sound a little weird, but from personal experience its best not to go overboard with anything at moments like this: hype, model buying (even with their blatant "get 'em while the pricing is good!" marketing), or such until we have more details. Like dynasties of ancient empires, edition changes in 40k have a cycle to them and at this point I would recommend not going crazy with anything until we have more details. 

 

That being said, the change between editions 8 and 9 is going to be different from those in the past. Case in point: all the psychic awakening books (Blood of Baal for us) and I think 8th Ed Codices as well will remain useable and relevant and it's primarily the BRB that's changing. So again, going off of point B above, that means don't expect some huge rules changes for us. We pretty much know what we're going to get this time around because we already have it. It's just how the new Primaris toys fit in and maybe we get an Embiggened Character in either Christmas 2020 or 2021. 

 

I'll come back and update this thread a bit more with details. 

 

-Indy

 

 

 

*the irony is hilarious 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Indefragable

[Hintzy]

I think the change allowing vehicles to still fire after being touched in combat makes sense, but will drastically impact the well-being of melee armies unless something else is added/changed. Something more than the new terrain rules hopefully. As far as the melee benefits from terrain I suspect it's not much more than first floor ruins block line of sight, which a lot of people already use. I also don't like being at the mercy of whatever terrain is available wherever I can get a game.

[Indefragable]

I think the change allowing vehicles to still fire after being touched in combat makes sense, but will drastically impact the well-being of melee armies unless something else is added/changed. Something more than the new terrain rules hopefully. As far as the melee benefits from terrain I suspect it's not much more than first floor ruins block line of sight, which a lot of people already use. I also don't like being at the mercy of whatever terrain is available wherever I can get a game.

 

Agreed...

 

...but I think things will actually be ok. I think assault armies will be in a better place than before for a few reasons:

 

-they are pushing Assault Intercessors. They won't let their shiny new product be that useless

-if my suspicions are correct, based on hints they've dropped, terrain will function in a way where you can choose for units to "go to ground" or "take cover" or such to sacrifice offense for defense. They hinted at things like being able to "hide" in terrain to get a drop on opponents, getting bonuses for being in buildings, and such

-I think letting vehicles fire while being "tagged" in melee is a sign that melee will be better than before and thus vehicles and shooty armies need a way to stay relevant 

 

just my thoughts. 

 

************

 

I can't help but roll my eyes at the assault intercessors thing. Of course they have to create a whole new data sheet for them rather than just giving Intercessors the option to take melee weapons instead of bolter variants. Same thing with DC Intercessors. Way to future-proof, GW....

Edited May 23, 2020 by Indefragable

[SnorriSnorrison]

Phew, big reveal so far! I'm interested to see the new rules for reserves, fingers crossed they go back to the pre-FAQ status! Many armies can do a T-1 assault anyways already, so might as well go back to what it was.

 

Assault intercessors, while nice-looking, what's their point? If they don't have jump packs I personally don't need them. :P If they can retro-fit DC Assault Intercessors, then we'd be talking...

 

I hope they don't go the ITC route regarding line of sight and ground levels on buildings. Being able to see through windows, broken walls, etc. made the game that little bit more realistic and fun to play.

[Leonaides]

Thinking about strategic reserves- turn 1 stay off board, turn 2 arrive from short edges, turn 3 arrive from enemy board edge? That assumes you have to be deployed by turn 3 at latest. And what else happens for us around turn 3......?

[Captain Caine 24th]

I'm alright with all of it (though I'm sure prices will be murderous--north of $60 for squads). Not sure how reactionary to be. Seems like GW typically staggers releases for close alternatives, and weapon options to keep us buying. Buy the first iteration box set, then get it with new weapons a few years later. Or buy the 'it' unit for X edition and buy a new one for Y edition.  

 

The new bikes look really striking to me (of course I'm sure white scars will use them best). If they move fast, they'll have a home in my list. 

 

Assault intercessors and an impulsor with mephiston/librarian/chaplain will be on the top of my list to play test and analyze. It's got the feel of razorbacks in old mech lists. I'll keep an eye out for a new overcharged engines strat. who knows if/when jump packs come back as primaris (Cpt. Shrike is set up for it, as well as inceptors I suppose)

 

The unit with storm shields and swords... whoa, seems like a new veterans alternative-I didn't catch it in the preview? I bet the templars forum is frothing at the mouth. I'd still like to convert sanguinary guard. But, is it worth it if new models come down in 1-2 years? Hard to say what to even magnetize at this point. Death company assault intercessors?!?! Not yet, but when...

 

Tanks shooting out of (or into) combat... this probably makes sense. Wargear and tactics could change a lot. The idea of using one model for touching/tapping a unit to make it ineffective in the next phase of shooting was a bit gamey, and maybe not in keeping with the narrative vision of the universe. This could drastically alter points though. 

 

Terrain/cover... It needs an update. I agree. I sincerely hope, the frequent online complaints I saw haven't encouraged GW to over-correct and we end up looking like 7th edition with  cover becoming quasi invulnerable saves stacked with re-rolls (tyranid malanthropes & hive tyrants, jink saves, etc). Very worried, but hopeful. I really like the idea of a unit taking an action to use cover, instead of a dispute over whether a unit can be seen or is 50% covered, etc...  Could make things more simple.

 

New missions... I find a lot of people just play the matched play set up and don't vary much. Don't get me wrong, I think workable campaigns would rock. Also, I think it'd actually be healthy for the community to include multiple versions instead of nudging everyone towards competitive only. Still, we'll have to wait and see if it works. This could radically alter army design.

 

CP increase... I like command points as a way to make units better without being over powered (when it functions correctly... iron hands). I actually liked soup though. I like lowly guard standing with my boys from BAAL. But, this game is very expensive and I don't think it's a workable business model to compel people to buy several codexes and armies. 

 

Continue to use existing books. Well thank the emperor for that. Though it is a lot to carry around...

 

SUM: I plan to continue to build a solid base of units instead of chasing the latest fad. Unlike the previous 6 editions where I've utterly failed at this, we've got a pandemic on, and I'm actually making substantial progress. So, for my blood angels this means: finish usuable, playable squads, characters, and transports. Get the army ready for battle as a first priority (meat and potatoes before dessert).

[DistractionTacMarine]

I really like everything I’ve seen so far. I will admit to being a little nervous about units like Sanguinary Guard being made irrelevant.

[Blindhamster]

I'm excited. Loving the new models.

 

Ancient is a little weird but the rest are cool

[SnorriSnorrison]

I'm excited. Loving the new models.

Ancient is a little weird but the rest are cool

Keen to see the rules on those bikes! Even „just“ a Primaris bike squad would be welcome and fit BA very well.

Shame about the general lack of jump packs though. :(

[Spyros]

Observing the apparent lack of jump packs (heavy support unit Suppressors took the last of them...), the bikes will be an adequate compromise.

Where others jink and slalom, we go full throttle!

 

"...the Blood Angels are infamous for pushing their bikes to the limit, forcing whatever extra speed they can out of the engines and riding at full tilt over terrain that would cripple a lesser machine in seconds."

[dread05]

The veterans and the melta dudes look really nice, the characters look very busy!

[The Unseen]

The champion holding an executioners sword...

I need one in black, immediately

 

Plus Meltaguns have reentered circulation

Praise the Emperor

[Bat33.1]

Volkite in 40k is a big thing and I wonder if this means more 30k units will be ported over into 40k now or if it will be reserved for characters?

 

The mechanicum guys have been waiting years for rules for those sweet FW robots.

 

I've heard chatter about alternate activation like kill team coming to 40k but as welcome as this would be at fixing the first turn alpha strike I wonder if GW are brave enough to try it on the cash cow of 40k? The other concern I have with this is how it could increase game time for no big gain in balance. At the moment it's a big salt pile though.

 

If they are pushing combat intercessors and those big necrons had super sized swords I'm confident SG and DC will remain relevant. The black and gold murder squads have more in built mobility than Primaris intercessors and bringing single wound models in a game where D2 is common always feels like your opponent is wasting killing power shooting single wound models.

 

Lots to shake out yet as the rules crunch was so light, roll on Tuesdays q&a session for a bit more detail.

[lokoloki]

the change in the vehicle rules gives me hope for the BAAL predator, it was meant to get close to enemy infantry anyway but now it wont pay a penalty for that.

[Majkhel]

the change in the vehicle rules gives me hope for the BAAL predator, it was meant to get close to enemy infantry anyway but now it wont pay a penalty for that.

Land Raiders too.

 

For now I'm not very thrilled for the CCW Intercessors without JPs apart from the more dynamic poses.

Tthe sculpts I like. Bikes look good, but I already am thinking: can we take Power Fist on them? Can we take something else than bolters?

[VanDutch]

 

the change in the vehicle rules gives me hope for the BAAL predator, it was meant to get close to enemy infantry anyway but now it wont pay a penalty for that.

Land Raiders too.

 

For now I'm not very thrilled for the CCW Intercessors without JPs apart from the more dynamic poses.

Tthe sculpts I like. Bikes look good, but I already am thinking: can we take Power Fist on them? Can we take something else than bolters?

My hope is that the primaris drop pod is only round the corner. Otherwise those assault intercessors are going to waste a round of shooting from a Repulsor to get into combat. Using an Impulsor could work, but I usually prefer to run larger squads for assault so I can maximise stratagems/chaplain buffs. Gene wrought might on a squad of 9 or 10 is looking very exciting... if all the strats can be used in the new edition.

 

On the news and rumours topic there was mention from a play tester that bikes are looking competitive. Could they have an ability like Inceptors (1 mortal wound on charging in on a 4+) along with extra attacks from being primaris and chainswords?

Edited May 24, 2020 by VanDutch

[SnorriSnorrison]

Here’s the post:

 

Alright lads, back home from work now, so I return bearing more rumours from the pocket playtester:

this was in response to someone saying he wants to offload the bikes:

"Yeah I would hold on to those bikers, they are crazy good."

 

this was me inquiring to what he said above:

"crazy good how? Because unless they have any some kind of funky rules all I see are just chainswords and twin both rifles Unless you're referring to the fact that they'll be zipping around with three wounds a 14-inch movement and toughness 5?"

 

Which leads into this, which is the most important bit imo:

"Yeah they have some other stuff and the profile is better

They be legit tasty for all marine factions especially for ones with bonuses to combat

I think WS, BT, BA, DA, and SW will all do well with a load of these.

I think they may be the most “competitive” choice from the models previewed thus far"

Obviously keep your salt shakers close by...

[Thoridon]

We knew melee Primaris and bikes would be coming so it makes sense that the launch of 9th (8.5 really?) would see the range expanded with these and other units we won't have seen yet. I do expect that eventually we'll get Primaris able to take various different melee, special and heavy weapons but it remains to be seen if it'll be a Hellblaster-style everyone gets the same or more like Intercessors where the normal models get the basic loadout and the Sergeant has a few options.

 

Assault Intercessors are a nice step forward but if they're limited to (new) bolt pistol and chainsword then we'll still be waiting for the jump pack melee unit with multiple damage weapons we need to get in fast and hit hard.

 

The way they say they want things to feel in game the way they do in images gives me hope that the chainsword may get elevated above a combat blade. They specifically mentioned how you imagine a chainsword tearing things to shreds and their cinematic shows it ripping through armour so I would love to see a stat boost on them. The same with bolters, which really feel like they should have extra AP as standard (including the older versions). That's pure wishlisting though.

 

It'll be interesting to see how many rules/stats they can change while still keeping existing codices and books valid. On the one hand you'd assume not much, but then reintroducing Blast as a weapon type will require an erata to all currently printed books so if they have to do that for those they can change other weapons the same way.

 

Tanks not being locked in melee by a snotling is a much needed change and the boost to aircraft sounds promising. It's hard to judge based on the very limited details so far but it does sounds like we might be getting a nice upgraded version of 8th that changes some parts that didn't really make sense and cleans up aspects that might have gotten a little complicated.

 

I look forward to seeing the loadouts and options of assault Primaris, the new bikes should be nice for us and I'm particularly interested in how special/heavy weapons get introduced to the Primaris range based on that photo.

 

Edit: I forgot to say the thing I'm most pleased about is that they say normal Marines aren't going away any time soon. That makes me feel better about having a bunch of them still waiting to be painted!

Edited May 24, 2020 by Thoridon

[Charlo]

This wave of Primaris are the ones that finally sell it for me.

 

Leaning much more on the warrior monk than the clean sci-fi trooper Vanguard aesthetic.

[Blindhamster]

im interested to see what they do to differentiate assault intercessors from rievers. I really like the models and look forward to building and painting a few.

 

This release definitely does a lot for our melee preferencs. I know a lot of people are sad that there's no sign of more jump infantry, may well be they still come though so just have to wait and see, I've always liked foot sloggers with BA anyway, making use of transports instead so I'm pretty happy with how this is looking so far.

 

Not convinced on a few specific things (ancient type guy looks weird, and i hate the Judicators head). But generally this is an excellent release.

 

Bikes sound like they're going to be good based on the main rumour thread.

[Indefragable]

The cynical side of me says that the assault intercessors will be just as shown bolt pistol and chainsword both modeling and data sheet wise....

 

 

....then 6mos later they release a multi pack that gives them pistol and power weapon options.

[VanDutch]

The cynical side of me says that the assault intercessors will be just as shown bolt pistol and chainsword both modeling and data sheet wise....

 

 

....then 6mos later they release a multi pack that gives them pistol and power weapon options.

Well that’s what happened with regular Intercessors. And sergeants kept on being given options as new upgrade sprues were released.

[Majkhel]

I'm very sceptical about those CC releases in relation to tanks now being able to shoot while in combat. I mean - CSs against tanks? CC will need a definite improvement to validate that Time will tell and again - sculpts are nice.

What do you think of the new Aggressors?

Edited May 24, 2020 by Majkhel

[Quixus]

I'm very sceptical about those CC releases in relation to tanks now being able to shoot while in combat. I mean - CSs against tanks? CC will need a definite improvement to validate that Time will tell and again - sculpts are nice.

We need wings(jump packs), We are the :cuss ing Angels of Death! And hammers and meltaguns! Oh wait we already have that with proper marines. Come on GW support them rules wise.

 

Hopefully no silly skids on the Primaris jump packs if they ever come.

What do you think of the new Aggressors?

What new Aggressors?

[Bat33.1]

Tanks shooting in combat was probably a change that was required, it seems a little silly the minute somebody gets close to a tank it stops shooting. Wil this mean they can shoot units not in combat with them like some heavies already can or shoot the unit they are in combat with needs an answer. 

 

The bigger worry for balance will be if Knights can shoot in combat as they can bring some strong elements into a list and no longer need the loyal 32 to get a CP boost, indeed the loyal 32 would cost them CP to bring along.