BA and 9th Ed

[Indefragable]

My personal take on a lot of these changes to melee in 9th—especially from one who not only plays a traditionally melee army, but plays them in a particularly “punch you in the face until you ain’t got no face” manner—is to wait and see.

 

A lot of these overall positive-seeming changes to melee remind me of those car lease ads (here in the US) that scream “you can lease a Mercedes for only $100/month!” but then the small print says you need to put $10,000 down up front and a kidney and your firstborn child in order to get that deal.

 

Aka how things work will be a bit different, but many of the same principles will apply and a smart general still needs to use his head and plan 2 Turns ahead and anticipate what your opponent’s options are and how she is likely to used them. Just like planning which of your units hits first to work around Counter-Attack became just another day in 8th, so will planning around Desperate Breakout became normal in 9th.

 

I think a fundamental truth for BA will be that footwork (aka Movement phase/mobility) will be more important than ever.

[Majkhel]

I think a fundamental truth for BA will be that footwork (aka Movement phase/mobility) will be more important than ever.

With that, I wholeheartedly agree.

9th seems to (might) be the edition of manoeuvres for now. ;)

[SnorriSnorrison]

I’ve just added autobolt-magazines to the 10 DI intercessors I have to let them stay mobile and still be able to shoot. Moving 7-13” and still shooting 15 S4 shots isn’t too shabby! They should do well in the new edition, if their point costs stay the same or same-ish.

[Blindhamster]

Intercessors went up. 20ppm iirc

[SnorriSnorrison]

15 point increase for 5 then, correct? Seems about right, I suppose. Double the wounds of a normal tactical squad should roughly cost double the points. I hope Firstborn don’t see too many price hikes, they’re too easily killed as it is. :(

[Quixus]

If they do not get their point cost increased we can finally get a DoW 1 feel to the tabletop.

[Indefragable]

My understanding is that points are getting hiked across the the entire game. I think we need to leave our 8th ed mindset behind in that sense; they've even mentioned that what we think of as "normal" in 8th ed--2000pts--may become 2500pts in 9th. I think that's for the best overall since it gives far more breathing room to units in general and provides a more nuanced, granular take which I think will help things in general. 

[Rhavien]

So, the Astra Militarum faction focus mentions shooting a heavy flamer after advancing your scout sentinel. Does that mean Baal Preds with flamers are getting useful now? Am I missing something?

[Spagunk]

I think maybe there are strats for guard that allow it but I don't know offhand what they are.

 

I've not seen anything posted that alters how advancing works so it's hard to tell.

[SnorriSnorrison]

yeah I was puzzled by that as well, thought that maybe heavy flamers might get rid of the "heavy" attribute...but I might remember that guard have a stratagem for the sentinels? Don't know...

[Rhavien]

yeah I was puzzled by that as well, thought that maybe heavy flamers might get rid of the "heavy" attribute...but I might remember that guard have a stratagem for the sentinels? Don't know...

Just checked that. There is only one that lets you scout ahead further, but you can't shoot or charge that turn. I'm stoked that heavy flamers could be useful! Maybe even the flamestorm cannon?

[Djangomatic82]

 

yeah I was puzzled by that as well, thought that maybe heavy flamers might get rid of the "heavy" attribute...but I might remember that guard have a stratagem for the sentinels? Don't know...

Just checked that. There is only one that lets you scout ahead further, but you can't shoot or charge that turn. I'm stoked that heavy flamers could be useful! Maybe even the flamestorm cannon

Heres hoping. The only thing i'm a little worried about is that heavy flamers, Flamestorm Cannon or Frag Cannon might get the Blast keyword. It would make them great against hoards, but for things like the Baal Pred or Furioso Dread, not being able to shoot those in CC would be such a let down.

[Hintzy]

So, the Astra Militarum faction focus mentions shooting a heavy flamer after advancing your scout sentinel. Does that mean Baal Preds with flamers are getting useful now? Am I missing something?

I've followed Reece through his podcast and various other media for a few years now and I think that can likely be chalked up as a misstatement. He just plays too many armies, and he's always involved in playtesting, which probably compounds the intricacy of things. He's said stuff incorrectly before, but I think that's only reasonable.

[Indefragable]

Reece is a decent guy and in my conversations with him he’s always had a good head on his shoulders so I don’t think he made a mistake. I wonder if he was talking about Advancing with Sentinels this being able to fire auto-hitting flamers...

 

Re-reading it it’s two separate sentences where he first says heavy flamers on Sentineks are awesome because you can advance and shoot, Then he transitions to pre-game and first turn Strategenes, of which one involves advancing. A bit misleading, but I think it was unintentional.

[Xenith]

Yea, moving heavy flamers back to assault weapons like in 3rd-7th ed wuld be a step in the right direction, or at least bump range to 12" like the Flamestorm.

[BluejayJunior]

 

 

yeah I was puzzled by that as well, thought that maybe heavy flamers might get rid of the "heavy" attribute...but I might remember that guard have a stratagem for the sentinels? Don't know...

Just checked that. There is only one that lets you scout ahead further, but you can't shoot or charge that turn. I'm stoked that heavy flamers could be useful! Maybe even the flamestorm cannon

Heres hoping. The only thing i'm a little worried about is that heavy flamers, Flamestorm Cannon or Frag Cannon might get the Blast keyword. It would make them great against hoards, but for things like the Baal Pred or Furioso Dread, not being able to shoot those in CC would be such a let down.

 

They confirmed in the Blast weapon stream that flamers, and I think other autohit weapons, would not get the blast keyword. They want heavy flamers sponsons to be able to clear out enemies in Engagement Range. 

[SnorriSnorrison]

 

The largest challenge for the T’au Empire in the new edition is the change to the Fly keyword. It no longer offers units the ability to Fall Back and shoot, which means you need to put extra effort into screening enemy charges and preventing your critical shooting units from being engaged in combat.

 

Oh dang! This is huge. Now, depending on the amount of flying shooty units you face, it's huge.

[Indefragable]

Between that and the ability for almost anyone to outflank, it seems like mobility options (bikes, jump, etc...) really need to use their mobility in the Movement phase. Less shenanigans. That might seem obvious, but i think it’s a positive overall.

[Wassa]

They did say there are some changes for flamers though

[Hintzy]

Reece is a decent guy and in my conversations with him he’s always had a good head on his shoulders so I don’t think he made a mistake.

I didn't mean to suggest he isn't a decent guy or anything. I just meant that he has to navigate through essentially two different editions at once, while a lot of people make mistakes with just the one.

[Hintzy]

The twitch stream all but confirmed that Assault Intercessors are troops. They showed a "combat patrol" list, using a patrol detachment, with the Assault Intercessors being the only obvious troops choice.

 

Not surprising at this point of course, but certainly welcome and good news for us.

 

Edit: WarCom article shows the same information.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/26/join-the-combat-patrolgw-homepage-post-1fw-homepage-post-3/

Edited June 26, 2020 by Hintzy

[burningsky25]

And so it finally happens! I remember all the discussions back in 7th (maybe 8th too) about wanting assault marines as troops for BA. Mind you that was back when tactical marines seemed especially bad. Shame they don't have jump packs though. Think there's hope that option is available in the future?

It seems like most of the primaris options have less mobility than their old school counterparts . . aggressors with no deep strike like terminators, assault marines with no jump packs. Just interesting. Sad as a BA player for less jump packs though.

[SnorriSnorrison]

And so it finally happens! I remember all the discussions back in 7th (maybe 8th too) about wanting assault marines as troops for BA. Mind you that was back when tactical marines seemed especially bad. Shame they don't have jump packs though. Think there's hope that option is available in the future?

It seems like most of the primaris options have less mobility than their old school counterparts . . aggressors with no deep strike like terminators, assault marines with no jump packs. Just interesting. Sad as a BA player for less jump packs though.

I feel the same about Primaris, until now they’re a bit of a missed opportunity because jump packs, which are an integral part of how the Blood Angels get out and about on the battlefield, are very underrepresented and look horrible/clunky as seen on inceptors.

 

New strategic reserves rule could help footsloggers get close to the enemy turn 2 and up, so that’s something perhaps. I’m seriously pondering the thought of magnetising the backpacks in case they’ll introduce that option later.

[Indefragable]

Based on the Combat Patrol article today, they listed this as a Space Marine Patrol Detachment:

 

 

 

....so I think it's safe to bet that Assault Intercessors (ASI) are Troops.

 

I am going to use my Assault Marines (ASM) w/o Jump packs as ASI if I ever decide to use them (we'll have to see the full lay of the land, but I'm still of a mind that Incursors are our best Troops choice). I do not feel like giving GW money for them, but that's a different story and just my personal take. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Indefragable

[BluejayJunior]

Seems like the most logical assumption. I highly doubt Outriders are troops. Maybe, maybe, a small possibility that Bladeguard Veterans are troops, if they wanted the ability to take a partrol/battalion for just veterans. 

But I'm 99% sure it's the Assault Intercessors.