BA and 9th Ed

[Shaezus]

Is the stormraven going to see more play now, I wonder. twin multimelta style

[Vermintide]

 

 

My personal theory is that the multimelta changes will apply to all MMs but not other weapons. The reason for this is that regular melta guns got a points drop for the start of 9th while MMs went up. This suggests to me they costed MMs with the new stats in mind.

 

Melta rifles are their own thing and they get the double-fire rule when concentrating shots.

also interesting that melta rifles use the old roll two dice and take highest rule for damage, where multi meltas get d6+2 damage too.

Roll two dice discard one. Subtle but important distinction over "pick the the highest", because you might not always want the highest.

 

New melta rule means rolls of 5s and 6s will be flat out unable to damage Necron units with Quantum Shielding, for instance.

[Indefragable]

We've yet to see if the melta changes are restricted to multimelta - the eradicator melta rifle kept the old rule - or will expand to changing other classic melta options yet, or even if the new multimelta will be limited to Primaris. You'd normally expect the profile to roll out more widely given they didn't give the ATB a new weapon name (superhot multimelta or some such) but then, bladeguard storm shields. Would be nice to see normal meltas and inferno pistols get a buff, but given GW's general benign neglect for firstborn, I'm trying not to hope just yet.

...yea super hot multimelta or multi-multi-melta would be how GW would name it.

[ThatOneMarshal]

So we got a goonhammer analysis and... we are looking pretty good!

 

Essentially the analysis they came out with is similar to what our birds tacticians came up with; play more defensively essentially with our melee while holding the melee.

 

Interestingly they forgoes smash captains in favor of more special characters and psykers.

 

Here is the article: https://www.goonhammer.com/9th-edition-factions-focus-blood-angels/

[Jolemai]

They should have their hobby card revoked for that opening image alone :/

[Spagunk]

They're goons so any chance for the comedy option will be used.

[Vermintide]

So this thing about not being able to charge over screens with Fly any more, because engagement range...

If Fly still gets to "move over enemy models as if they were not there", that means their engagement range isn't there either. So you're not moving through it. Because it's not there. Besides, you know, just logically, because you're flying. You're not going to use your jet pack to zoom forwards at ground level.

 

Ehh. Rules are rules I guess, just seems like a weird thing for them to specifically clarify you can do in the previous edition then flip-flop back on again.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Vermintide

[momerathe]

Has that been clarified in a FAQ or something? because I certainly wouldn’t have interpreted the rules that way...

[Spinsanity]

Has that been clarified in a FAQ or something? because I certainly wouldn’t have interpreted the rules that way...

The rules are pretty clear on this... Page 11 of the PDF / 209 of the BRB:

FLYING

If a unit’s datasheet has the FLY keyword, then when it makes a Normal Move, an Advance or it Falls Back, its models can be moved across other models (and their bases) as if they were not there, and they can be moved within Engagement Range of enemy models...

(underlined the relevant part)

[Spinsanity]

Has that been clarified in a FAQ or something? because I certainly wouldn’t have interpreted the rules that way...

The rules are pretty clear on this... Page 11 of the PDF / 209 of the BRB:

FLYING

If a unit’s datasheet has the FLY keyword, then when it makes a Normal Move, an Advance or it Falls Back, its models can be moved across other models (and their bases) as if they were not there, and they can be moved within Engagement Range of enemy models

Edited August 8, 2020 by Spinsanity

[Arkhanist]

From what I understand of other discussions of this, the consensus is this:

 

1) in the movement phase (when making a normal move/advance/fall back) fly units can ignore models & their bases as if they were not there, AND they can be moved through the engagement range of said models (they can't finish the move within the engagement range)

2) when charging, fly units can ignore models & their bases as if they were not there. No mention of engagement range.

 

Ergo, when charging with a fly unit, you don't get to also ignore the engagement range of screening models. If you could, it would be specifically included, as it is in the movement rules. Without that exemption, you are still bound by the rule in "charging with a unit" that says you cannot move within Engagement Range of an enemy unit you didn’t declare as a target.

 

So if you charge a unit and you can fly, you can hop over the physical models (if you roll high enough) so you can surround them for example, but not ignore them completely to charge a different unit behind.

 

Yes, it's not entirely clearcut, and could do with a FAQ as it's a rule 'by omission' and definitely counterintuitive. It may even be changed by a FAQ so charging works like moving, but it's a reasonable interpretation at the moment.

 

This also ties into the new charge rules - since you can't in theory ignore screening models engagement range (just the models themselves), you could declare a charge against them and the real target behind - but now, you have to end up in engagement range of all targets you declare against or the whole charge fails, so if the real target is far enough behind the screen (assuming you even roll a long enough charge) you can't be in engagement range of both screen and real target with say, captain slamguinius, making him unable to perform his targeted missile role any more.

 

A unit of say, sanguinary guard may be able to pull off charging both though, with some of the unit jumping over the screen and engaging from the back, while the rest hit the real target while maintaining unit coherence.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Arkhanist

[Quixus]

Has GW ever defined what a Normal Move is?

[Arkhanist]

Has GW ever defined what a Normal Move is?

They have in 9th. In the movement phase rules:

 

"NORMAL MOVE

When a unit makes a Normal Move, each model in that unit can move a distance in inches equal to or less than the Move (M) characteristic shown on its datasheet, but no model can be moved within Engagement Range of enemy models"

[Quixus]

So finally any other movement definitely is not a Normal Move. Good job, GW. Edited August 8, 2020 by Quixus

[Vermintide]

I guess maybe it's there to distinguish between units with the fly keyword, but which narratively speaking don't actually fly, i.e skimmers and jet bikes and such perhaps, and maybe we'll see jump pack stuff get its own special rule allowing it to do so.

 

It is pretty clear in the rules for me, but what seems strange is that they specifically went out of their way to allow you to do that before, and now apparently changed their minds; yet it seems like a counter-intuitive change with a lot of the other shifts towards more "logical" behaviour.

[Shaezus]

it's an interesting one. This is the sort of thing cropping up with 9th Ed rules and tbh I like that. It's not so much a gamey query as an honest one.

 

Is it not a moot point though? If you're declaring on something beyond the screen, you may as well declare on the screen anyway.

[Indefragable]

What @Arkhanist said.

 

The key is that you can’t swerve into Engagement Range of a unit you are not charging. Therefore if enemy unit B is behind enemy unit A, you have to successfully charge around unit A without straying into A’s Engagement Range in order to fight B. Where <FLY> makes a difference is that since you can “hop” over unit A, you have a shorter distance to charge B if you’re also charging A.

 

They were careful with their wording, so <FLY> helps but is not an auto-win by any means.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Indefragable

[Thoridon]

On the subject of Multi Meltas it makes sense that they become Heavy 2 considering they’re modelled with 2 barrels. And a lot more impact for what is often the main ranged weapon on an expensive unit. Meltaguns and Inferno pistols only being single barrelled would stay as single shots if they’ve taken the physical models as a reason for rules adjustments.

[VanDutch]

I had my first game of 9th and first game against Harlequins today. 1500 points. We scrapped secondaries just to concentrate on getting the new rules correct. I took a bit of an odd ball Primaris list:

Bladeguard Lt

Primaris Chaplain (Quakebolts)

2x 5 Incursors

1x 7 assault intercessors

Primaris Ancient (5+++ banner)

Invictor

1x 5 DC Intercessors (auto bolt and one had thunder hammer)

1x 3 Outriders

Repulsor

Impulsor

 

Lt, Ancient and Assault Intercessors in the Repulsor on one flank, DC and Chaplain in the Impulsor on another. Outriders in reserve (I think this was a bad idea in hindsight) to take advantage of turn 3 bonuses.

 

I had no real idea how to deal with Harlequins (first time against any sort of Eldar) and whilst I knew they were fast I didn’t realise their weaponry was so dangerous. As he won the roll off my Invictor and a few Incursors were taken out quickly. Thankfully my Repulsor survives but the Impulsor is blown, not that it mattered too much as I was immediately into combat with the DC. Annoyingly the 3++ on the bikes meant it was difficult to shift them and get to the middle ground to support the Incursors.

 

From that point it was difficult to support the middle ground. It felt weird being pinned in my own area for two turns. I resigned at then beginning of turn 4 with him 50-20 up as I couldn’t get enough objectives with what I had left.

 

Assault Intercessors did well but even with the 5+++ they succumbed to some horrible multi damage weapons. I had some poor rolls at pivotal times, such as not being able to shift one or two models from objectives which benefited my opponent and took points away from me. Outriders are good, but I should have started them to rush up and support the Incursors whilst my two transports were being picked on. Those multi damage, high strength weapons also really hurt them. My poor Invictor is just too scary a target and gets wiped immediately. I may stick a phobos librarian up there with him, and if I can go first cast WoS.

[Indefragable]

Harlequins are the definition of a glass army that catches people off guard. It happens to everyone, if that’s any consolation prize.

 

The trick with them is to not play their game...which is easier said than done, given their combo of speed, psychic powers, and high damage weapons makes for an army that is pretty much designed to run circles around and through its opponent’s head.

 

...but once it kinda clicks that they are basically a Faction that combines Imperial Assassins with Tempestus Scions with Eldar vehicles, and then sprinkles Xenos fairy dust all over everything, they’re much easier to conceptually take down.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Did anybody see the leak of the new terminator datasheet? Terminators with 3 wounds, powerfists with damage 2 flat, power swords with +1 strength! FLAMETHROWERS WITH RANGE 12” !

 

1. It’ll be interesting to see how axes work now since swords have taken their stick.

2. Will encarmine weapons be brought in line with this change? Powerfists already outclass them, now with flat 2 damage they’d really need something else to shine...

3. Flamers are back, baby! Time to paint up that second tactical squad.

4. I’m glad I’ve been holding on to the Terminators from space hulk...

[Arkhanist]

Did anybody see the leak of the new terminator datasheet? Terminators with 3 wounds, powerfists with damage 2 flat, power swords with +1 strength! FLAMETHROWERS WITH RANGE 12” !

 

1. It’ll be interesting to see how axes work now since swords have taken their stick.

2. Will encarmine weapons be brought in line with this change? Powerfists already outclass them, now with flat 2 damage they’d really need something else to shine...

3. Flamers are back, baby! Time to paint up that second tactical squad.

4. I’m glad I’ve been holding on to the Terminators from space hulk...

For those that haven't...

 

 

3W Terminators!! And heavy flamers actually usable!   yeah!! With the relative price drop I was already thinking of bumping up my Heroes Series 2 guys up the painting list, they just jumped straight to the top. And the space hulk termies. I'm so happy right now!

[ThatOneMarshal]

Well I guess I need to look through the garage to find those long missing AOBR Terminators that my dad threw in a random bin 12 years ago.

 

But by god with these updates it’ll be worth it.

[Loishy]

When I see this, I think I schouldn't build any squad before the new Codex. Maybe I will finaly use this heavy flamer in the Cataphractii squad. 

 

 

Just, it's again more and more power for the different weapon. Our minis will stay even less time on the table. 

[Xenith]

Looking great, hopefully flamers get the 12" range buff also. Heavy flamer Devs are back on the menu?