BA and 9th Ed

[Karhedron]

Yup, DC will definitely be brutal with the number of attacks they generate. In 8th edition I normally ran DC in smaller games and SG in larger ones and left the VanVets on the shelf. It will be interesting to rerun the analysis once we know the full lineup of stats as well as any points changes that may be incoming.

 

Points are the big unknown at the moment as it is not clear if the points in the 2020 MFM bear any resemblance to what is coming in the Codex. For instance, Multimeltas went up despite most people considering them trash. Then a week later we learn that MMs are becoming Heavy 2 and +2D at short range. Suddenly the new points value makes perfect sense. Does this apply elsewhere or will we end up paying for the extra wound on Veterans?

[Vermintide]

I do suspect Sanguinary Guard will be left alone considering they already get 2W, and I'd guess this change hints at "veteran" status Marines getting +1W in addition to their traditional +1A. This would neatly explain why Bladeguard get 3W, one extra on top of the standard Primaris 2W. But... Would it mean the Veteran Intercessors strat also has to give those 3W?

 

If DC get two wounds I think things will be very interesting for Blood Angels.

 

EDIT: Also only just noticed power swords are now +1S. All my death company have power swords. By the Emperor, my Rule of Cool modelling has been vindicated most thoroughly.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Vermintide

[Arkhanist]

Vet intercessors strat is being replaced by a new elite datasheet in the codex. It may be they go to 3w ala blade guard.

 

The +1w for vets and cult marines is sounding more and more plausible to me, in which case points wouldn't need as much change from the MFM.

 

3W reivers would give them a niche that's not stolen by incursors, for example.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Arkhanist

[Hintzy]

Warhammer Community article confirms all "fully fledged" Marines (so not Scouts?) will be going up to two wounds. Images of the in-box Captain datasheet shows that it is not just a +1 wound to all old Marines. So while this will be great for Death Company it does not confirm three wound SG. Though, as somebody said earlier, SG are "Terminator adjacent" so it's still a reasonable possibility. Additionally, the points updated by the most recent Field Manual do not account for the added wounds, and points will be increasing again for old Marines in the new codex once they cross the Rubicon-lite.

[Hintzy]

Additionally, I think the willingness of GW to revise and alter a vast number of old Marine datasheets and weapons is perhaps evidence that the "squatting" of old Marines is still quite a ways away.

[Quixus]

Additionally, the points updated by the most recent Field Manual do not account for the added wounds, and points will be increasing again for old Marines in the new codex once they cross the Rubicon-lite.

What makes you say that? I do not find anything like that in the article.

[Vermintide]

Additionally, I think the willingness of GW to revise and alter a vast number of old Marine datasheets and weapons is perhaps evidence that the "squatting" of old Marines is still quite a ways away.

Ehh... It's evidence they need to shift more of those old kits they still have stock of, before the great replacening is complete :D

[Hintzy]

 

Additionally, the points updated by the most recent Field Manual do not account for the added wounds, and points will be increasing again for old Marines in the new codex once they cross the Rubicon-lite.

What makes you say that? I do not find anything like that in the article.

 

 

"Of course, all these updates will also come with a suitable points adjustment. The aforementioned Tactical Marine will clock in at 18pts for his extra Wound (20% more than he is today). And it means Space Marine forces will be compact, elite, durable and utterly deadly – just as they should be."

 

 

Additionally, I think the willingness of GW to revise and alter a vast number of old Marine datasheets and weapons is perhaps evidence that the "squatting" of old Marines is still quite a ways away.

Ehh... It's evidence they need to shift more of those old kits they still have stock of, before the great replacening is complete

 

 

I must admit that your take on this is much more likely than mine.

[Spagunk]

My only worry at this point is that this ends up as a wash since a lot of weapons are getting deadlier. It remains to be seen the extent of weapon changes but if everything is boosted damage wise, it doesn't change the problem marines generally had.

For instance, one reason you'd take standard tactical/scouts over intercessors is because your 2d weapons weren't as effective. Now they're equally effective against both tacticals and intercessors. Scouts then seem to be a superior option in that regards since they can be used similar to standard tactical without the extra points.

 

Just my own spitballing. It remains to be seen how this shakes out until the codex comes about.

[Vermintide]

Yeah, overall I wouldn't get too excited, since it's unlikely they are buffing Marines up so much without appropriately boosting other armies. And frankly I'm hoping we see some of that soon, because I'm getting quite tired of all the negativity coming from people who don't know the full picture yet and have already decided 40k is finished.

 

But it does make Marines play a bit more like they always should have, in theory- We won't have the most elite super soldiers of the Imperium* killed stone dead by a stray stubber round any more.

 

*Besides Custodes, but shhhh.

[Karhedron]

Marines will be twice as resilient against small-arms fire but I think there will be an increase in the number of weapons that can one-shot a space Marine. The leaked Redemptor datasheet shows the Macro Plasma Cannon as having 2D in basic mode.

 

I suspect we will see a lot of heavy plasma weapons getting buffed and possibly some heavy anti-infantry guns like Shuricannons, Big Shootas and the like.

[NiftyVT]

Hmm, guess I need to finally finish painting my 3 drop pods. Time for dropping in shooty vets!

[Indefragable]

Devastators + Chaplain with +1 To Hit Litany in pod.

 

Profit?

[The Unseen]

Devastators + Chaplain with +1 To Hit Litany in pod.

 

Profit?

Chaplain can't chant because he isn't on the table till the movement phase, but chants are done in the command phase.

 

But Heavy Flamers don't need the To-Hit Buff

[Brother Cruoris]

Then take a chappie with jump pack and start him on the board, wings him over if he cant reach the spot with an advance. =)

[VanDutch]

Then take a chappie with jump pack and start him on the board, wings him over if he cant reach the spot with an advance. =)

You chant the litany during the command phase and have to choose a unit with 6” there and then. So that won’t work either.

 

It annoys me a bit that chaplains can’t chant a litany whilst in a transport. I get why, they’re not on the table so cannot use their rules. But in the fluff it would make sense that they could still chant for another unit they’re embarked with. Minor gripe though.

Edited August 14, 2020 by VanDutch

[ThatOneMarshal]

I don't think that work as the +1 to hit litany requires you target the unit in the command phase and you have to deepstrike him over in the following phase. It'll work with any auras however. 

 

Personally I am just excited to see the return of sternguard with their bolters. 

 

Also with the potential improvement to heavy bolters (assuming # of shots stay the same) and heavy flamers the baal pred is looking a whole better. 

 

DC with thunderhammers and chainswords are looking absolutely delecious right now. I am curious if they will keep doctrines the same as they have because ap-2 chainswords are gonna be pretty sweet come turn 3.

[Karhedron]

Hmm, guess I need to finally finish painting my 3 drop pods. Time for dropping in shooty vets!

Tacticals in a pod won'r be too shabby either. Dropping 20 wounds of Troops onto an Objective is going to force your opponent's hand to some extent. Use a couple of units of Infiltrators to control the middle of the board and keep your landing zone clear.

[Arkhanist]

I was thinking incursors and infiltrators to hold the mid board initially, then terminators teleporting in and possibly bladeguard in an impulsor to firm up the line, with roving outriders and death company in support. Add some dreads for heavy weapons and punch. Not sure what else yet.

 

I do think the extra attack on primaris is usually worth it for BA though, more so than other chapters, bar specialists like DC.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Arkhanist

[Karhedron]

I think Tacs or Sternguard in Pods to back-up our Phobos units on T1 also have mileage. Flamers and heavy flamers going to 12" range will offer some interesting possibilities there I think.

[Majkhel]

Drop Pods might also help protect our characters.

[Indefragable]

So it's confirmed that Storm Shields are now 4++/+1 to armor save for all units that can bear them.

 

Definitely puts Sang Guard in an awkward spot until our Codex drops and hopefully gives them something interesting to make up for it. 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/14/codex-space-marines-weapons-and-wargear-updates/ 

[Karhedron]

Yup. As it stands, Vanvets with shields outdo SG on durability and can carry a more flexible selection of weapons. Let's see what Sanguinala brings brothers.

[Blindhamster]

i honestly wouldn't be surprised if Sanguinary guard end up in the terribad position and are left there, compared to wolves and dark angels, we've tended to be the chapter left to languish in mediocrity the most (in fact, we have tended to even compared to core marines more than those too).

[Majkhel]

I'm curious what the new Primaris DC squad composition will look like. Shots from the film show a 10 man squad, 4 with Bolters, so I'm guessing we can mix shooty with CC. The question is: what restriction were set to this mixing and how many OOMPH-y weapons we can add into the mix.
With the increased range of those heavy pistols, I'm not sure it's worth it to take Auto-bolt rifles over pistol&sword option.