BA and 9th Ed

[Indefragable]

Crazy timing (standby for more)...

 

 

....I do wonder how power weapons will shake out. As others have pointed out in other places, it could be a return to “power weapon” as a blanket term with S+1 AP-3 D:1 and the choice of model for said weapon is up to you. I don’t know if I like that idea, but I get it. Others have suggested that it’s a quality vs quantity thing, with Astartes Chainswords (and whoever gets them) going to AP-1 (AP-2 in Assault Doctrine) and +1A, power swords getting +1S is to better differentiate them (it also makes far more sense it the change is across most Factions, since IG et al can take power swords but that was long considered pointless.......until now?)

 

P2:

The alternative would be something like:

-Sword: S+1 AP-3 D:1

-Axe: S:U AP-2 D:2

-Mace: S+2 AP-1 D:2

-Power Fist: Sx2 AP-3 D:2 -1 To Hit

 

..to try to differentiate things a bit more. I am guessing multi-damage weapons are becoming more important so D:1 weapons like swords need an edge (hah).

 

..

 

Edit: added p2 since I was interrupted by life before.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Indefragable

[Karhedron]

Interesting. It might explain why Howling Banshees went up in points despite the general consensus being that they struggle to fight their way out of a wet paper bag with S3 power weapons. Now if they get buffed to S4, they start to look a bit more menacing.

 

Looking great, hopefully flamers get the 12" range buff also. Heavy flamer Devs are back on the menu?

And suddenly we have a reason to dust off a Drop Pod or two!

Edited August 10, 2020 by Karhedron

[Majkhel]

If that would be true, then AWESOME!

However I'd like to point out that this is not how a datasheet is presented in the Core Book. Also a typo in the Chainfist AP section?

[Indefragable]

If that would be true, then AWESOME!

 

However I'd like to point out that this is not how a datasheet is presented in the Core Book. Also a typo in the Chainfist AP section?

Supposedly that is the new format for how the rules that come packed in each box are. It somewhat makes sense as they don’t have to print up multiple for different languages. I will raise a mighty eyebrow if this is how unit stats are in the new set of Codexes.

 

Yes, the the chainfist should be AP-4, so it’s missing the minus part....but chainfists have been AP-4 for all of 8th so no huge  deal there.

[Arkhanist]

If that would be true, then AWESOME!

 

However I'd like to point out that this is not how a datasheet is presented in the Core Book. Also a typo in the Chainfist AP section?

 

Indeed, but it's the new format for the construction guides so it's multilingual. It's mentioned in the core rules Datasheets section, where it has the icon explanations (page 7) "A condensed version of a model’s datasheet can be found in its construction guide – this contains less information than the full version, but will still let you get your unit on the field straight away." The example on page 8 of the core rules pdf looks just like this.

 

The other advantage is it shows WHAT the weapon looks like, rather than relying only on the name - which should be less confusing for novices, given the sheer range of different weapons these days.

 

There's been a couple of other leaks that have come from them, mostly necrons. The AP 'minus'  typo is one they make ALL the time, even in codexes. If anything, it makes it more legit

 

The other marine leak I think that's come from these constuction sheets, i.e. where they've been put in model boxes too early is the invictor.

 

 

Theese changes are somewhat unique to the invictor - the heavy bolter going to 1 shot 2D may be because it's an oddball pistol version, and the ironhail autocannon increase to -2AP is a unique weapon, as is the incendium flamer going to strength 6. We don't know if those changes will come to other versions.

 

The dual ironhail heavy stubber going from 6 shots to 8 indicates that may be a universal change to 4 shots per though.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Arkhanist

[Arkhanist]

The other rumour doing the rounds of course is that all firstborn marines will be going to 2W; including chaos versions, so that Primaris become just a new scale with different weapon options (and the extra attack). If that's true, along with the various weapon changes that seem to be coming, the new marine codex is going to be a a huge change. God knows how it'll all get repointed.

 

I can believe they might do it, as no doubt firstborn kit sales have fallen off a cliff since Primaris came out, and some of them are still pretty new (the BA tactical squad was 2014, I think) so more profit to be made.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Arkhanist

[Karhedron]

Firstborn Marines did get a points hike in the Field Manual. Of course so did other armies so it may not be enough to justify an extra wound.

[Blindhamster]

it may be that that is their legit new points, but intercessors being 5 points more than tactical marines to get +1 attack and a marginally better basic gun, but  no options on the unit by comparison would be too much in the other direction. if tacticals go back up to their traditional 17 or 18 point mark compared to intercessor 20, thats probably reasonable though

Edited August 11, 2020 by Blindhamster

[momerathe]

Yeah, I don’t believe small marines would get 2W across the board. On the chaos side, I could imagine the “specialist” CSM units like plague marines etc getting the extra would to bring them in line with primaris.

 

I wonder whether SG are going to get the extra wound. While they’re not terminators they’re at least terminator adjacent..

[Karhedron]

3 Wound SG would be sweet.

 

Here's a question though. If SG stay as 2 Wounds, does the buff to Terminators make them better recipients for the Standard of Sacrifice?

[smileyjim]

With 3 wounds, maybe a priest lurking nearby and a screen of Intercessors/stumpies these guys could take alot to shift them from holding a point. I was planning on taking a squad anyway to back up my libby dread,now I might take 2 squads

[momerathe]

3 Wound SG would be sweet.Here's a question though. If SG stay as 2 Wounds, does the buff to Terminators make them better recipients for the Standard of Sacrifice?

I’m actually thinking of Aggressors, as a mid-board anchor.

[Indefragable]

The trade-off between SG and Termies will always be the speed of the SG. All depends on how you want to play. 

[Karhedron]

The trade-off between SG and Termies will always be the speed of the SG. All depends on how you want to play.

Agreed. I have traditionally played very aggressively with a hammer unit of either SG or Jumping DC. However 9th Ed's emphasis on taking and holding objectives, I can see both Termies and Aggressors potentially taking the lead as if the enemy fails to bring the fight to me, it will mean victory by default.

[Thoridon]

Captains and Primaris Captains are now the same Power Level (5 each, previously 5 and 6).

Chaplains and Primaris Chaplains are now the same Power Level (5 each, previously 5 and 6).

 

Either that's a way to push out the old models without making them legends (why take a regular model when you can use the Primaris version at the same cost?) or the PL changes were set taking into account a wound increase for the older generation.

 

The Terminator leak could be just that - Terminators - but an extra W for all old marines would be fantastic. Increase the points to compensate and we can all use the 'flavour' of Marines we like without one set feeling like it's an immediate disadvantage. It would make all marines play more like they are in the lore, and Primaris models would still have their advantages in certain aspects (scale being a big one).

 

It would also be good for Chaos marines - an extra wound on Death Guard would really make them disgustingly resilient.

 

I think an extra attack representing the extra size would be a fair representation for Primaris, and it would allow all marines to shrug off more wounds than a bog standard Imperial Guard conscript.

[Hintzy]

A new Vanguard Veteran in-box datasheet has surfaced as well.

-2W, which may or may not confirm old marines gaining a wound

-AP -1 Chainswords

-4dmg Thunder Hammers

-Axes also went up one strength to +2

-2dmg Power Fist, confirming the Chainfist and PF dmg wasn't swapped unintentionally on the Terminator sheet

[Loishy]

Are the firstborn marines with 2 wound confirmed ?

 

 

 

Edit : Hintzy was faster than me 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Loishy

[Karhedron]

This may be Veterans only at this point but certainly makes our VanVets look very promising. The real question is whether Sanguinary Guard get 3W.

[Black_Sky]

We are missing any potential special rules.

 

Hammer/fist -1 to hit, Plasma pistol overcharge, lightning claws?

[Arkhanist]

We are missing any potential special rules.

 

Hammer/fist -1 to hit, Plasma pistol overcharge, lightning claws?

 

They don't put special rules on the new condensed datasheet in the construction guide pack-in, as that would defeat them being multilingual - i.e. less dead trees per box that get read once then go to the bin. The core rules mentions this (as does the blurb at the top), and says they're just so you can get going straight away until you get the codex. All the profiles should be same as the upcoming codex though, or GW is doing something very strange.

 

The wide scale marine reboxing is ahead of the codex, thus these leaks, but it does indicate the codex release may have been originally planned to happen around launch as they did in 8th, but got pushed back due to covid printing delays etc; we're seeing similar leaks for necrons.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Arkhanist

[Karhedron]

This may be Veterans only at this point but certainly makes our VanVets look very promising. The real question is whether Sanguinary Guard get 3W.

Thinking about this some more, if SG don't get a buff then VanVets will completely outclass them. Storm shields changing to +1 to save and 4++ means that SS Van Vets will have the same number of wounds and same save as SG but will also have a 4++ and a greater variety of weapon options. DC will also be in a dicey spot.

 

In 8th edition, each of our premiere melee elites had a distinct niche. Unless SG and DC get buffed then I think VanVets are going to be clearly superior in most (if not all) instances.

[Indefragable]

 

This may be Veterans only at this point but certainly makes our VanVets look very promising. The real question is whether Sanguinary Guard get 3W.

Thinking about this some more, if SG don't get a buff then VanVets will completely outclass them. Storm shields changing to +1 to save and 4++ means that SS Van Vets will have the same number of wounds and same save as SG but will also have a 4++ and a greater variety of weapon options. DC will also be in a dicey spot.

 

In 8th edition, each of our premiere melee elites had a distinct niche. Unless SG and DC get buffed then I think VanVets are going to be clearly superior in most (if not all) instances.

 

 

Indeed.

 

That being said, I thought storm shields on bladeguard were +1 to save and 4++ invuln, which would make VV 2+/4++ and Terminators 1+/4++. I could be mistaken. If it's a flat 1+ save then yea, VV or bust. 

 

If it's a +1W across the board to non-Primaris, then it's a net win for us all around. I do wonder if SG will get their Datasheet tweaked at all...Emprah knows I have my own ideas....but I'm guessing based on their almost all-consuming popularity on the tournament scene as is, they are not changing or only getting nerfed. Womp womp. 

 

Considering almost everything from 8th is supposed to be forwards-compatible (except Codexes replaced by a newer one), we can extrapolate what's not going to change based on the Stratagems in Blood of Baal. 

[Vermintide]

TERMINATORS WITH THREE WOUNDS?!

 

THAT'S AS MANY AS THREE ONES. COUNT THEM. THREE.

 

THREE WOUNDS.

 

I knew I wasn't making a mistake buying all those Assault Termies. And every Terminator HQ. Faces are going to be smashed in, brothers.

 

(Also, am I seeing that right? 4 damage Thunder Hammers? I mean... Are they bringing back Instant Death rules here or what :D )

Edited August 12, 2020 by Vermintide

[40kChrista]

 

 

 

Indeed.

 

That being said, I thought storm shields on bladeguard were +1 to save and 4++ invuln, which would make VV 2+/4++ and Terminators 1+/4++. I could be mistaken. If it's a flat 1+ save then yea, VV or bust.

This was already FAQ'd for the Bladeguard SS.  4++, and add +1 to the save roll... not the save characteristic.  My  guess being that the new Storm Sheild profile is how they will all work within the new codex, and to not have 1+ save Termies/Custodes running around.

[ThatOneMarshal]

So the faq is up and they fixed the fly engagement range issue.

 

Hurray for smash captain!

 

Also it’s pretty neat to see astartes chainswords on there. DC will be pretty good with that and might even have 2 wounds each.

 

I’m really concerned about the sanguinary guard. They are really popular in the tournament scene which means they will most likely be nerfed or kept the same as Karhedron mentioned. The power weapon changes hopefully means they’ll get a buff to encarmine weapons but who knows. Also hopefully getting 3 wounds.