BA and 9th Ed

[Xenith]

Still catching up with all the news - from what I can see in the new codex, only SW, DA, DW are listed as codex divergent, with restrictions on units they can take - Does this mean that BA are now codex-adherent and can take everything in the SM book? 

 

The biggest winner for me is Apothecaries/priests. A 6++ bubble as standard plus the chief apothecary upgrade plus whatever that stratagem does is going to make for one tough to kill unit. Stick an astartes banner nearby and things like terms/centurians/aggressors/eradicators shoot as they die, then stand back up again next turn. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Xenith

[Jolemai]

We won't know until we get a FAQ/Supplement. I'd advise waiting before you splash the cash on stuff as folk have been caught out before.

[momerathe]

Transhuman Physiology being locked to Primaris now is a bit of a knock for Sanguinary Guard.

[Ishagu]

 

The Assault Intercessors are excellent troops for close combat themed armies.

 

The Bladeguard are very powerful for their points, and durable on top.

How do you get them into CC? Aren't they movement 6 and without fly or other options to ignore terrain?

In 9th the board is smaller and terrain can actually hide units from shooting. It's a lot easier to engage in CC, especially as the objectives pull armies closer to each other.

[Charlo]

Chief Apothecary's are... Busted good.

 

Goonhammer pointed out that you can revive Invader ATVs back at full health. All EIGHT wounds.

 

I expect this to be 100% FAQ'd, but regardless they are still very powerful.

I think 9E had been kind to BA, small boards etc 

[Majkhel]

While I will miss Honour the Chapter I believe it is a fair move toning down a lot of the SMs Smash-Captains-of Death equivalents' combos. This will make lives of many monsters and vehicles that little bit longer on the battlefield. 

However moving Transhuman to Primaris-only is a nasty move for the firstborn :(

Edited October 5, 2020 by Majkhel

[Shaezus]

Even if the apothecary - ATV interaction takes a FAQ nerf it's still a great unit to take. More so if we keep the standard of sacrifice.

 

With so much T7 4++ knocking around 3 Gatling ATVs buffed by a master of sanctity for 2s to hit and 4s to wound, rerolling 1s for both with a dreadnought and captain nearby, is a powerful tool not just against infantry

[Remtek]

Wow vanguard vets and assault terminators got a huge buff. Had a read through the whole book. It feels like codex world eaters

Edited October 5, 2020 by Remtek

[SnorriSnorrison]

Even if the apothecary - ATV interaction takes a FAQ nerf it's still a great unit to take. More so if we keep the standard of sacrifice.

With so much T7 4++ knocking around 3 Gatling ATVs buffed by a master of sanctity for 2s to hit and 4s to wound, rerolling 1s for both with a dreadnought and captain nearby, is a powerful tool not just against infantry

Not going to work, since ATV’s are not <CORE> and litanies now only buff core units, as do Captain’s auras.

It is rumoured that DC are not core either, which is going to be interesting as our chaplains thematically lead DC into battle. I don’t trust GW to make fluff-based decisions in the crunch at this level of depth, it may be that Astorath and Lemmy are the only Chaplains able to shout at DC effectively.

 

On another note, the Chapter Champion looks quite tasty. With him having the +3 S / -3 AP / 3 D sword and a jump pack(legends), he could be a new Smashy-light from the elites section for under 100 points. Especially if you combine the +1 S +1 A warlord trait with that, he’ll be 7 2+ attacks with S8 doing 3 damage and -1 to hit, re-rolling wounds against characters and possibly 1’s to hit as well.

[Karhedron]

The 5+++ bubble on the SoS was nice so I hope we keep it. However if it goes, we can console ourselves that we will at least get access to multiple 6+++s if we wish and free up a Relic slot. I don't know what is coming but the fact SoS was such an auto-take makes me nervous that it will be disappearing too.

 

Right now, we've already lost the Terminator Ancient with the Archangels Standard as it's no longer listed in the main codex entry, while there's a specific option for a BA(and successor)-only weapon loadout. Now you might say, "Terminator Ancient? What was that?" and you'd be right to ask this since terminators weren't much good until now! Alas, the Archangels standard gave us (old Chapter Master) re-rolls to hit in 6" - for every unit. With the option of taking another relic with him and his versatile loadout, the BA Terminator Ancient was quite a hidden gem in my opinion. No more!

If he is not in the codex, I am pretty sure he will be in our supplement. The simple reason is that he has a standard option in the BA Assault Terminator kit. GW may be removing entries with no kit support but I really doubt they will remove a unit with a current kit.

 

Impulsors

Which have lost FLY and been downgraded to a 5++. Not terrible but not the delivery mechanism they were.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Karhedron

[Ishagu]

Remember that BA now get access to the Marine psychic discipline.

 

Psychic Fortress is power that makes a 6" 5++ invul bubble that affects units within it, and not just models wholly within it.

 

You can now have Dreads/Landraiders/Repulsors/Aggressors etc etc with a 5++

Edited October 5, 2020 by Ishagu

[Karhedron]

Really does seem to make Shield of Sanguinius redundant. I wonder if it will go back to a 4++ or if they will replace it.

[Ishagu]

Shield of Sanguinius can be cast on a specific unit which has it's own benefit. For one you don't have to stay close to the Psyker that cast the power.

[Xenith]

Really does seem to make Shield of Sanguinius redundant. I wonder if it will go back to a 4++ or if they will replace it.

 

If we've learned anything from this release, it's that we can't assume that things will work in they way they have previously. 

 

I have no idea what the BA supplement will look like, but It'll be an adventure for sure. 

[smileyjim]

Oh I really hope we dont loose terminator ancient im just about finished converting one

Wow vanguard vets and assault terminators got a huge buff. Had a read through the whole book. It feels like codex world eaters

So other than wounds what's changed for terminators?

[Ishagu]

Oh I really hope we dont loose terminator ancient im just about finished converting one

I'm pretty sure the Terminator ancient is just a generic unit available in the new. Codex?

[Prot]

 

The Assault Intercessors are excellent troops for close combat themed armies.

 

The Bladeguard are very powerful for their points, and durable on top.

How do you get them into CC? Aren't they movement 6 and without fly or other options to ignore terrain?

 

 

 

Impulsor as mentioned, or simply using the reserves game mechanic, combined with assault shenanigans is extremely viable. 

 

Chief Apothecary's are... Busted good.

 

Goonhammer pointed out that you can revive Invader ATVs back at full health. All EIGHT wounds.

 

I expect this to be 100% FAQ'd, but regardless they are still very powerful.

 

I think 9E had been kind to BA, small boards etc 

 

The lean towards infantry heavy lists is bordering on bizarre. The Apothecary and ATV's is definitely FAQ territory, but still doesn't detract from his immense utility. 

 

BA are looking to stay top tier at this point in my opinion. Most of the 'nerfs' detract from mechanisms that weren't so great for BA anyway. Units with good upgrades play very well into the BA playstyle. 

 

You guys who have been around a while: get ready for the bandwagon to get a bit heavier! ;)

[Indefragable]

I'm not gonna judge anything (or even buy anything, TBH) until the BA Supplement drops to have a better idea what the full picture looks like. 

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that this is the first Codex to drop, so "power levels" may well be re-aligned across the entire game. Not that everyone (should) care about "power" or how strong a book is instead of it's inherent values, but as @Xenith said we need to let go of the line holding us to the dock of 8th and just start seeing where the streams of 9th take us. Based on the reviews of the Necron Codex* so far, it seems like their rework is so complete that it will be some time before we see how 'Crons perform one way or another.

 

That being said, I am no longer optimistic about our Supplement. As others have stated I do not trust GW to get the nuances of things correct. That's not to say I am pessimistic, but rather, for my part, I am somewhere in an apathetic neutral state. We'll see what it brings one way or another. 

 

-the optimistic bones still left in me think that we will keep some sort of Honor the Chapter and/or Only in Death Does Duty End type of Chapter-specific stratagems since the whole self-sacrifice-while-killing-the-enemy thing is our shtick. It probably will not be the same way that we know it (basically RIP OG Smash Capt), but could still be there in some form. Limiting HTC to just Assault Intercessors is one of the most obnoxious, blatant, callous cash-grab-pushing-you-to-buy-a-kit moves I've seen in a long time. I get HTC being reworked, but limiting it to a single data sheet is just illogical and bizarre other than an obtrusive marketing move. 

 

-I can't help but wonder that there's a typo or another page missing with the "Non-Codex compliant" chapters thing. It just seems so odd that BA now have access to Centurions and Thunderfires and stuff. Hey, good for all the folks that want them, I'm happy for them, it just seems odd. I wonder if there will end up being de facto 2x ways to play BA down the line: A. Codex: SM way with access to more toys, but cannot use (some portion) of the Supplement  B. Supplement BA with access to more unique Stratagems, Relics, WLTs, and Psychery, but restricted in terms of which of those and what units from Codex: SM you can take.   That would create a very weird dichotomy, but without something like that it does seem like BA become Codex: SM +1 with one of the largest unit pools of any faction. 

 

*Kudos to GW for releasing a xenos book at the top of the heap for once

 

EDIT: typos and cleanup

Edited October 5, 2020 by Indefragable

[BluejayJunior]

I think any fears about just being red space marines or losing flavor are a bit overblown at this point. Adding the supplements to the codex chapters just made them more unique and flavorful. I can't see how making us a supplement will cause us to lose flavor. It's giving us additional options and mainly just taking a bunch of datasheets that were in our codex and putting them in the main codex. That leaves more room for them to add things to the supplement instead of repeating a couple dozen pages with datasheets that are the same in every space marine codex. 

I really doubt that the terminator ancient is going away. They just released a model for that in the Space Marine Heroes boxes. 

[Karhedron]

I get HTC being reworked, but limiting it to a single data sheet is just illogical and bizarre other than an obtrusive marketing move.

Actually it kinda makes sense. Shooty Intercessors get a strat to let them shoot twice (it used to be several strats that worked differently on each gun) so it kinda balances things that assault intercessors get a strat to fight twice.

 

Captain Smash is going away but to be fair he was a crutch that helped us to hold our own in an edition that was based on firepower. 9th seems to be more about melee and manoeuvring and that is where BAs excel. I would rather have a codex with plenty of good units than a few overpowered ones.

[Blindhamster]

Also worth noting, that DA, SW and DW seem to only have lost access to core codex units that had a clear direct replacement in their own rules.

 

DA just lose sternguard and vanguard, because they have their own unique veteran units.

SW lost the core marine squads (assault, devastator, tactical, plus stern/vanguard and apothecaries) because they have direct replacements with blood claws, grey hunters, long fangs wolfguard and wolf priests.

DW similarly have their own unique takes on the existing marine units.

 

By comparson, the Blood Angel unique stuff sits outside the codex organisation, we ARE a codex adherent chapter that happens to have a few unique things bolted on because of the flaw (or in the case of sanguinary guard, because of the fact a dude made a gold command squad in 4th edition).

 

 

The above is why we didn't lose access to things. I think it's also a bit misleading to say it would make us marines +1. Deathcompany and sanguinary guard are nice, but to be genuinely worth taking over vanguard vets they'd need a huge facelift. Deathcompany intercessors need an overhaul to be worth taking at all, our unique dreads aren't better than core marine ones (except maybe librarian dread I suppose), baal predator seems like it's kinda overshadowed by the new gladius tanks. Doesn't leave much else.

I suppose I /am/ surprised they didn't restrict access to apothecaries and say we have priests instead, but it's fine either way tbh.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Blindhamster

[Charlo]

While I will miss Honour the Chapter I believe it is a fair move toning down a lot of the SMs Smash-Captains-of Death equivalents' combos. This will make lives of many monsters and vehicles that little bit longer on the battlefield.

 

Eradicators and Melta buffs in general say "Hi!"

[Loishy]

GW just post a PDF with the new rules for Blood Angels. 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/v68YXckia2D69azL.pdf

 

Lots of change and no 3W sanguinary guard... But they have 3A now


 

[Charlo]

 

Lord Regent of the Imperium Nihilus: If your army is Battle-forged, then when you select this model to be your Warlord, you receive 1 additional Command point.

 

From Dante's new datasheet :)

[Charlo]

ALSO, holy crap Sanguinary Priests....!!!

 

 

Blood Chalice: In your Command phase, select one friendly Blood Angels Core or Blood Angels Character unit (excluding Vehicle units) within 6" of this model. Until the start of your next Command phase, if the Tactical Doctrine or Devastator Doctrine is active for your army, then each time a model in that unit makes an attack, the Assault Doctrine is considered to be active for that attack instead.