BA and 9th Ed

[Spagunk]

For some reason, I thought they said that it comes equipped with both flamers AND bolter and can shoot both? Seems like it can only mount bolters OR flamers instead. 

It's been awhile so maybe it was just initial "9th is on the way, here is how it works at this time" faux pas?

 

Edit: perhaps not. The last article about it says OR so maybe I misremembered?

Edited October 13, 2020 by Spagunk

[Karhedron]

The Hammerfall Bunker looks like a strange beast. I can see what they are trying to do with it but I struggle to see if it is any good. Maybe get the Flamer version and park it on your Home Objective to make sure no one take it. Even if your opponent puts a Troop unit in reserve, it would have to face steady BBQing from the Heavy Flamers to try and contest it.

But it is a lot of points for an immobile, low BS unit just to babysit an Objective. 

[Jolemai]

A Primaris Deathstorm Drop Pod.

[Blindhamster]

 

I worked as a UX designer for ~8 years, so the 40k app makes me feel like I'm being professionally insulted. 

 

I also had a pretty-much-complete collection of ebook codices which, while they had their flaws, worked really well for me so I'm bitter they're being got rid of in 9th.

 

That fact that they want me to pay full price for the physical books AND pay a monthly subscription...

 

I'm with you on so many points. 

 

What feels especially bull- is that it's billed as you getting "both a physical copy and digital copy of the codex," when it fact it's nothing of the sort. It's just access to alphabetical data sheets in the app. It's not a codex by any means. The only convenience factor (IMO) is the ability to Search for rules (that you have access to)...but that was more or less in the eBook as well. 

 

I'm not a UX designer, but I do build web apps as my day job haha.

 

I always found the ebooks really bad, I think if you had an apple device, they were okay but otherwise were really really not. At least this app brings everyone to a level starting point and we know they're working on the app.

 

Another thing worth noting - you don't need the codex AND a sub. I'm not subed and can view the core rules plus my codex contents just fine :) So that part seems to work quite nicely.

[Blindhamster]

A Primaris Deathstorm Drop Pod.

yeah that sums up what it seems like to me too. It does put out quite a bit of firepower if you're playing against an opponent with a lot of units, and I guess technically, the low BS matters less if you're putting out THAT MANY shots :D

 

It's a strange beast for sure but I imagine for the right setups, a good one.

[Indefragable]

I picture the Hellstorm doing the most damage when it's dropped on an enemy. The poor grot looking up as this cartoon style anvil falls on his head. 

[Thoridon]

At first glance it looked expensive but it's similar to a bunch of the Predator variants, and for that you get 14 T8 wounds that have to be dealt with. Heavy bolters alone aren't awesome but with the array hitting everything visible that could soon add up if deployed in a good spot, especially with Devastator doctrine in the first turn for the extra AP. That missile launcher is going to hurt; 2D6 S6 Blast shots will shred weak infantry blobs while a pair of S10 krak shots could crack open vehicles.

 

Deploy one of those in their face and your opponent can't ignore it. A big shiny distraction bunkerfex to draw fire while the rest of our units move closer.

 

I'd probably only take the flamer version if I knew I was facing an army with almost pure melee infantry. The flamers could work parked next to an objective but that's still only acting as a single heavy flamer - an opponent would have to be daft to move multiple infantry squads within range of the flamer array. 36" heavy bolters are a bit harder to outrange if placed in a good spot.

[Quixus]

I picture the Hellstorm doing the most damage when it's dropped on an enemy. The poor grot looking up as this cartoon style anvil falls on his head.

Why would a Hellstorm be able to do that? Drop pods can't even do that, and there#s precedent for such pods (DoW II)

[Karhedron]

If the missile launcher had indirect fire, that would probably swing it for me. But maybe that would make it too good.

[Karhedron]

So how about characters in the 9th edition index?

 

The Sanguinary Ancient is the big loser for me. He has had a significant price hike and lost access to the Standard of Sacrifice (which was his main draw). The Banner bonus now overlaps with the "Heirs of Azkelon" rule which means that he doesn't actually synergise especially well with Sanguinary Guard anymore. He is probably better off spreading the +1 to-Hit bonus around to squads like VanVets. The 4+ attack on death rule is handy but hardly game breaking. I plan to bench this guy for the time being.

 

Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack on the other hand looks like being the big winner. He is now an excellent companion for the Sanguinary Guard. His 6+++ aura slightly makes up for the loss of SoS while the Red Grail kicks them into the Assault Doctrine on demand (although it is not entirely clear if that triggers Savage Echoes). Upgrade to Master of Sanctity is definitely worth considering. I am almost wondering if it is worth giving this guy Artificer Armour. He is not particularly tough and a 2+/5++ will go a long way to helping keep him alive if you plan to have him on the front line. I am thinking of a squad of Sanguinary Guard at the front backed up by a squad of Plasma Inceptors. Then a Sanguinary Priest and a Captain in between to buff both units. The SG will be hitting on 2s in melee and rerolling 1s. The Plasma Inceptors can overcharge relatively safely and the Priest can resurrect any little accidents.

 

The Captain still looks a good choice. Now that Smash Captains seem to have had their day, I am thinking a Relic Blade may be better value than a Thunder Hammer now as he cannot give himself rerolls. A Storm Shield may be worth considering to boost his armour to 2+ but is no longer so mandatory. I am wondering if Armour Indomitus might be worth considering now for added durability. Alternatively the Adamantium Mantle for a 5+++ is handy (although less so if running near the Priest).

 

For Librarians, Mephiston and the Libby Dread are both hindered by the loss of Wings (although hopefully this is temporary). A regular or Phobos Libby may be better. Jump Packs are available if you want to bring Null Zone along to strip Invulns from targets ready for the SG/VV/DC to assault.

 

Chaplains look interesting. Lemartes has taken a bit of a nerf and a bit of a price hike but I would argue he was too strong previously. He can now DS with DC and use Command Oratory to auto-chant Canticle of Hate out of normal sequence. This means DC making 7" rerollable charges. The availability of Commanding Oratory has really made Chaplains of all stripes much more viable. A JP or TDA Chaplain with Canticle of Hate and Icon of the Angel can now come in from Reserves with any units you like (VanVets, Terminators, DC, SG etc) and provide guaranteed rerollable 7" charges. The Primaris bike chaplain does a similar job with a 14" move (20" if you Advance). This guy probably works slightly better with Master of Sanctity since he is likely to be chanting more often. The Reserve Chappy with Litany of Hate is pretty much a one-use Reserve bomb so doesn't really need the upgrade. Just spend the 2 CPs once for the guaranteed Chant.

 

Lieutenants are also worth a look now I think. Ww will normally be looking at just 3 HQ slots (unless we pay CPs for a second detachment), I think a pair of Lts is a good way to spread some buffs while making efficient use of a single HQ slot. The Primaris Lt with MC Power Sword and Storm Shield is probably my favourite version as it provides the much-need Invulnerable save. Another alternative is a shooty buff Primaris Lt with MC Stalker Bolt rifle and Quake Bolts. Now that he is BS2+, he makes just as good use of this wargear as a the Captain. I am not sure about the value of a Firstborn Lt unless you need to fit him a Transport or give him a Jump Pack. The Primaris Lts seem like a bargain for the extra 5pts and since there are so many different versions now, the wargear restrictions on the early 8th edition incarnation are not such a problem anymore.

 

Of course, all this may change when our full supplement comes out. What do people think?

Edited October 15, 2020 by Karhedron

[Blindhamster]

his +1 to hit would synergise with fist wielding sanguinary guard?

[Karhedron]

his +1 to hit would synergise with fist wielding sanguinary guard?

Good point. If you have a squad kitted out this way, it might be worth considering.

[Karhedron]

Blood Angels will be out in time for Sanguinala Christmas

[Blindhamster]

indeed, anyone else find it odd that wolves and blood angels aren't actually mentioned in the article? (well, wolves are with the silly tongue in cheek joke at the end i guess)

[BluejayJunior]

indeed, anyone else find it odd that wolves and blood angels aren't actually mentioned in the article? (well, wolves are with the silly tongue in cheek joke at the end i guess)

I think the Sanguinala part was the only reference to us. But I wouldn't read to much into it. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I think the change allowing vehicles to still fire after being touched in combat makes sense, but will drastically impact the well-being of melee armies unless something else is added/changed. Something more than the new terrain rules hopefully. As far as the melee benefits from terrain I suspect it's not much more than first floor ruins block line of sight, which a lot of people already use. I also don't like being at the mercy of whatever terrain is available wherever I can get a game.

so...you don't like one of the primary features of warfare...?

 

 

[Leonaides]

Pretty sure GW has just done some rules you might like in that case... BYORuins

[smileyjim]

Yeah... byo terrain hopefully won't catch on much. So easy to abuse

[Djangomatic82]

Sanguinary Priest with Jump Pack on the other hand looks like being the big winner. He is now an excellent companion for the Sanguinary Guard. His 6+++ aura slightly makes up for the loss of SoS while the Red Grail kicks them into the Assault Doctrine on demand (although it is not entirely clear if that triggers Savage Echoes). Upgrade to Master of Sanctity is definitely worth considering.

-Looking over the wording for the Chapter Command upgrading text, I'm not totally clear on if the APOTHECARY wording is referring to the Keyword or data sheet name. My initial thought was that it obviously refers to the keyword, which the sanguinary priest has, but looking in the codex, i noticed that the Primaris Apothecary does not have the APOTHECARY keyword, but the PRIMARIS APOTHECARY keyword instead. I'm really hoping that this is just an oversight on GW's part, but my gut says there's only a 50/50 chance of that.

-One other thing i noticed is that from the wording of the Combat Revival stratagem, it seems that the various apothecaries can both revive a unit and heal one (or two if it is a Chief Apothecary.)

[Charlo]

indeed, anyone else find it odd that wolves and blood angels aren't actually mentioned in the article? (well, wolves are with the silly tongue in cheek joke at the end i guess)

 

Not really. They have the images right there!

[Warhead01]

Yeah... byo terrain hopefully won't catch on much. So easy to abuse

Funny, a local tournament in the next couple of days has asked players to bring terrain because other wise they can't cover table adequately. 

I hope it does catch on even if the rules aren't used all the time. 

 

[Karhedron]

-One other thing i noticed is that from the wording of the Combat Revival stratagem, it seems that the various apothecaries can both revive a unit and heal one (or two if it is a Chief Apothecary.)

Yup. For a small price increase, their abilities get a big boost. Healing 2 units of 3 wounds each and then reviving a slain model to full health with a 0CP stratagem looks pretty good. The 6+++ bubble and Assault doctrine are just gravy.

[Blindhamster]

 

indeed, anyone else find it odd that wolves and blood angels aren't actually mentioned in the article? (well, wolves are with the silly tongue in cheek joke at the end i guess)

 

Not really. They have the images right there!

 

yeah i know, just felt odd to not say Death Guard and Blood Angels coming. I suppose they felt saying sanguinala was enough lol.

[smileyjim]

 

 

Yeah... byo terrain hopefully won't catch on much. So easy to abuse

Funny, a local tournament in the next couple of days has asked players to bring terrain because other wise they can't cover table adequately.

I hope it does catch on even if the rules aren't used all the time.

No thats awesome, helping out tournaments have enough terrain i fully support. This whole terrain picking thing with points and super special rules, its just prohibitive to players old and new and an obvious gimmick to sell terrain.

[Warhead01]

 

 

Yeah... byo terrain hopefully won't catch on much. So easy to abuse

Funny, a local tournament in the next couple of days has asked players to bring terrain because other wise they can't cover table adequately.

I hope it does catch on even if the rules aren't used all the time.

No thats awesome, helping out tournaments have enough terrain i fully support. This whole terrain picking thing with points and super special rules, its just prohibitive to players old and new and an obvious gimmick to sell terrain.

 

 

I do agree it's cool to bring terrain to help out, I love making my own terrain and bringing a tables worth out to friends houses for games. We all get a real kick out of it. 

So I get what your saying I just can't really agree at this point.  I think or would thing groups will reign in terrain and rules much like a local ban list. It comes down to the players.  

To me it's not too dissimilar from letting players include special Characters in their lists without the other players permission, from years gone by. 

We just have to get used to the idea. And actively look for a way to make it a detriment to the other play.....    What happens if you move you forces in and take it? Do you get to use their terrain abilities? If they castle up to protect it, that could cost them the game as you take objectives and focus on their poultry objective claiming units. Or it becomes a case of artillery vs counter artillery. ( as an example. )  I haven't looked at the new terrain data sheets yet and am just drooling over throwing 10 Assault Intercessor death company into as many units as are standing too close together as I can. 

 

I was thinking the other da I hope all the new supplements books give each chapter a primaris special character. I'm not a big fan of special characters but it would still be cool. 

Also hoping we get a company champion, specifically Primaris but both first borne and Primaris would be even better. Something not specifically SG just to open up the option would be nice.