BA and 9th Ed

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Blood Angels will be out in time for Sanguinala Christmas

 

watch they screw it up and don't release it until after christmas for some reason

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

 

 

Yeah... byo terrain hopefully won't catch on much. So easy to abuse

Funny, a local tournament in the next couple of days has asked players to bring terrain because other wise they can't cover table adequately.

I hope it does catch on even if the rules aren't used all the time.

No thats awesome, helping out tournaments have enough terrain i fully support. This whole terrain picking thing with points and super special rules, its just prohibitive to players old and new and an obvious gimmick to sell terrain.

 

ya...this might just be me...but taking the terrain i either paid good money for, or worked hard to build from scratch to a tournament where some rando could break it, or it could get stolen...not up my alley. what kind of janky tournaments don't have enough terrain for their tables?

[Warhead01]

All I can say about that is I saw the call go out over the clubs FB group. I have only been to that shop a handful of times. Just because I was closer to and frequented another shop all together.  I don't know what their particular situation is. Could be that realized they needed more terrain for 9th than they did for 8th. Or they want to be able to accommodate more players than they expect to have.  In my experience we have a good and friendly local crowd. As I understand it we have a core of maybe 3 or 4 people who run the tournaments for all the local shops both 40K and AoS.  I kinda feel like janky doesn't really work for describing these local tournaments. It could be any number of reasons. 
I do understand your hesitation with bringing terrain for randos to possibly break.  Theft seems way out of character for the local crowd who seem to know each other really well. 
I have no idea how it is where you are.  I give terrain away every now and then and it's funny going into a new local shop after years away and seeing stuff I made on their tables. Still in service. 
On the subject of 9th and terrain I am more surprised that we didn't get a D6 chart with effects like AoS used to have. But I guess that doesn't sell enough plastic terrain kits. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

All I can say about that is I saw the call go out over the clubs FB group. I have only been to that shop a handful of times. Just because I was closer to and frequented another shop all together.  I don't know what their particular situation is. Could be that realized they needed more terrain for 9th than they did for 8th. Or they want to be able to accommodate more players than they expect to have.  In my experience we have a good and friendly local crowd. As I understand it we have a core of maybe 3 or 4 people who run the tournaments for all the local shops both 40K and AoS.  I kinda feel like janky doesn't really work for describing these local tournaments. It could be any number of reasons. 

I do understand your hesitation with bringing terrain for randos to possibly break.  Theft seems way out of character for the local crowd who seem to know each other really well. 

I have no idea how it is where you are.  I give terrain away every now and then and it's funny going into a new local shop after years away and seeing stuff I made on their tables. Still in service. 

On the subject of 9th and terrain I am more surprised that we didn't get a D6 chart with effects like AoS used to have. But I guess that doesn't sell enough plastic terrain kits. 

my theory on everyone i don't know. "it's not that i dont trust you specifically. i just dont trust people" so it doesn't matter to me whether or not theft has been an issue at the local store or not.

 

it's players running the tournaments rather than the stores themselves or a specific organization? weird but ok. do they charge people to take part in the tournaments? if so they should use that money to purchase more terrain, or more materials to build more terrain imho.

 

now if it were an escalation league with people i know, i'd have no problem bringing some of my own stuff to help with the table.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Indefragable]

I mean, if you're throwing a party it's not out of the ordinary to say "bring your one of your favorite dishes/desserts" or something, right? Everyone pitches in a bit it can make for a better experience overall. 

 

But I do understand the concern about the terrain you poured sweat and tears into getting ruined by That Guy who moves it around with Cheeto dust hands. I think there's a fair balance somewhere in there (maybe you could ask that your terrain is only used in the games you are playing?)

 

My first concern was more around people modeling for advantage or trying to manipulate the terrain for their own purposes....but in less I am wrong about 9th, the same "the players set up the board/terrain together" core rule applies, aka  both players have a say in what the board looks like so there's no unfair advantage (in theory). I can see paying army building points for terrain of choice, since that's essentially saying "rather than waiting for my whole army to march, I took a vanguard of troops to secure the ideal terrain to defend." You're trading out boys for toys, in essence, by paying for good terrain instead of more dudes. I get that. But of course the question of is terrain costed appropriately (by GW....) is a whole other matter. 

[keeblerartillery]

Ok - can we move on from this now and get back to our units in 9th?

 

I for one am super curious if anyone has used the atvs yet

[Warhead01]

Ok - can we move on from this now and get back to our units in 9th?

 

I for one am super curious if anyone has used the atvs yet

I just want to know if anyone has found a better model to use as a proxy for one. But I would load mine with Melta. 

[smileyjim]

Someone did a great conversion by sticking wheeling a landspeeder with a turret bloke on top, looked awesome

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I mean, if you're throwing a party it's not out of the ordinary to say "bring your one of your favorite dishes/desserts" or something, right? Everyone pitches in a bit it can make for a better experience overall. 

 

But I do understand the concern about the terrain you poured sweat and tears into getting ruined by That Guy who moves it around with Cheeto dust hands. I think there's a fair balance somewhere in there (maybe you could ask that your terrain is only used in the games you are playing?)

 

My first concern was more around people modeling for advantage or trying to manipulate the terrain for their own purposes....but in less I am wrong about 9th, the same "the players set up the board/terrain together" core rule applies, aka  both players have a say in what the board looks like so there's no unfair advantage (in theory). I can see paying army building points for terrain of choice, since that's essentially saying "rather than waiting for my whole army to march, I took a vanguard of troops to secure the ideal terrain to defend." You're trading out boys for toys, in essence, by paying for good terrain instead of more dudes. I get that. But of course the question of is terrain costed appropriately (by GW....) is a whole other matter. 

a potluck isn't a tournament...it would be more like going to a wedding and being expected to bring a layer for the wedding cake imho

[Hintzy]

Regarding the SangPriest ability to put a unit into Assault Doctrine:

 

I'm firmly in the camp that rules as written it does not proc Savage Echoes. However, after reading over the other chapters' super-doctrines it looks like everybody else's doctrine would proc, if an equivalent ability existed for them. It seems like everybody else's doctrine is resolved on an attack by attack basis where ours is actually in the charge phase. So I think there's a clear rules as intended argument that Savage Echoes should proc, if you are willing assume GW is "fair." Fairness is primarily relevant with Adaptive Strategy which has a nearly identical wording to the SangPriest ability with respect to "that attack." Everybody else would get their super-doctrine where we would not.

 

Worth an email, if you haven't sent one already.

[smileyjim]

I was going we would get an faq today, its probably going to be half the size of the codex so may take a while ;)

[Shaezus]

Ok - can we move on from this now and get back to our units in 9th?

I for one am super curious if anyone has used the atvs yet

I used them for the first time today in a win Vs drukhari.

 

Really, really like them

 

I used a unit of 2 Gatling ATVs. the opponent sought straight away to kill both, as he knew one could be revived. He managed to kill one, then vected me to stop me reviving it lol. by this time his firepower was needed elsewhere. ATV advanced up onto his objective, drawing out the troops from their cover and this allowing other things to shoot them off the objective.

 

in short, a superb little distraction unit with enough firepower to finish off light infantry or vehicles.

 

If I play against them I'll probably ignore them initially.

[Jolemai]

Played Vital Intelligence yesterday, 1500 points. Opponent sat a squad of Dire Avengers on a backfield objective out of sight/reach and used the secondary that comes with the mission (it's basically a multiplier: the more objectives you control, the more bonus points you have). Now I appreciate that this is anecdotal but it really opened my eyes to this sort of tactic and I should consider catering for it. 

 

... and that I could have done with a Whirlwind or my quad launcher Rapiers 

 

I seem to struggle with selecting my third secondary atm and it's possible I should really look at this some of thing more when working my lists.

 

tl;dr we can discuss units, etc, as much as we want but we need to spend time on the secondary objective choices when creating out lists.

[Shaezus]

Absolutely love the heavy intercessors. They bring something new and it's awesome.

 

Need a backfield objective securing? Put 10 of these guys on it and you can pretty much forget about it. With executor rifles and executor heavy bolters they're also making a big difference to the firefight.

 

Oppo shooting you with high S high AP high damage? 1CP transhuman. He should be using those weapons against other units and he'll regret not doing so

 

Oppo using high volume 1 damage weapons? 1CP strat for +1 to armour save. take a few wounds, no worries. apothecary can heal and revive if you really need it and the 6+++ adds almost 2 models of wounds to the unit on average

 

He deep strikes obliterators or something nasty close by? 2CP auspex with no negative modifiers. whatever it is it won't be so threatening after that and he'll probably think twice about charging

 

Absolutely brilliant unit

[Shaezus]

Played Vital Intelligence yesterday, 1500 points. Opponent sat a squad of Dire Avengers on a backfield objective out of sight/reach and used the secondary that comes with the mission (it's basically a multiplier: the more objectives you control, the more bonus points you have). Now I appreciate that this is anecdotal but it really opened my eyes to this sort of tactic and I should consider catering for it. 

 

... and that I could have done with a Whirlwind or my quad launcher Rapiers <_<

 

I seem to struggle with selecting my third secondary atm and it's possible I should really look at this some of thing more when working my lists.

 

tl;dr we can discuss units, etc, as much as we want but we need to spend time on the secondary objective choices when creating out lists.

No mercy is my first choice. Scored 15 with it in every game I've tried it so far, 4 or 5 games

[Quixus]

I can't keep up with all the space marine releases. Are heavy intercessors a separate unit or just a load out for the intercessors? If the former, where can I find them?

[Shaezus]

Separate new unit in the troops section. Models are due to be on sale soon so I'm proxying until then

[Jolemai]

fwiw Unit of the Week will start on them soon...

[Jolemai]

 

Played Vital Intelligence yesterday, 1500 points. Opponent sat a squad of Dire Avengers on a backfield objective out of sight/reach and used the secondary that comes with the mission (it's basically a multiplier: the more objectives you control, the more bonus points you have). Now I appreciate that this is anecdotal but it really opened my eyes to this sort of tactic and I should consider catering for it. 

 

... and that I could have done with a Whirlwind or my quad launcher Rapiers 

 

I seem to struggle with selecting my third secondary atm and it's possible I should really look at this some of thing more when working my lists.

 

tl;dr we can discuss units, etc, as much as we want but we need to spend time on the secondary objective choices when creating out lists.

No mercy is my first choice. Scored 15 with it in every game I've tried it so far, 4 or 5 games

 

 

Which one is that? I can only find a category called No Mercy, No respite...

[Karhedron]

... and that I could have done with a Whirlwind or my quad launcher Rapiers 

 

 

I think a Whirlwind or similar to reach out and tickle homebase Objective campers has mileage. A WW might take a few turns to kill a Tactical squad but will be a lot quicker to take out a lone Cyberwolf and other gimmick units that people may use to hold the home Objective. It means people will have to spend at least 100 points on something to sit at the back and not contribute very much.

 

The WW may cost slightly more but can do it's job quite happily wherever you park it. Worth keeping an eye on whether we get the Thunderfire Cannon. Is this better value than the WW in 9th or is the strat to turn off Overwatch on the WW a decider?

 

I seem to struggle with selecting my third secondary atm and it's possible I should really look at this some of thing more when working my lists.

 

tl;dr we can discuss units, etc, as much as we want but we need to spend time on the secondary objective choices when creating out lists.

I agree. Engage on All Fronts is probably going to be a pretty tempting option for us a lot of the time given our fairly mobile nature.

 

Leaving one secondary open to take either "Bring it Down", "Titan Slayers", "Thin their ranks" or "Attrition" seems like it might be a good idea. It would be hard work to design and army that is not vulnerable to at least one of these. I would probably avoid First Strike or Slay the Warlord due to both of these being capped in terms of the points you can score.

[Jolemai]

Thing is, wasn't the TFC nerfed somewhat? Quad launcher might be better in the interim (especially as it will probably be 2021 when the FW book is out) - and you can do crew shenanigans with it ;)

[Karhedron]

Thing is, wasn't the TFC nerfed somewhat? Quad launcher might be better in the interim (especially as it will probably be 2021 when the FW book is out) - and you can do crew shenanigans with it

Possibly. I will freely admit that since I play BAngels and Wolves, I never really bothered looking at it. But as the other main indirect fire option in the codex, I was interested to see how it stacked up.

[Jolemai]

 

Thing is, wasn't the TFC nerfed somewhat? Quad launcher might be better in the interim (especially as it will probably be 2021 when the FW book is out) - and you can do crew shenanigans with it

Possibly. I will freely admit that since I play BAngels and Wolves, I never really bothered looking at it. But as the other main indirect fire option in the codex, I was interested to see how it stacked up.

 

 

... to confirm, you know I'm referring to FW's Rapier entry when I say "quad launcher", right?

[The Unseen]

The TFC was nerfed to Str4, but also dropped back to a more reasonable 24 MB's. The quad launcher now has higher str on its anti infantry profile and has the anti tank round for versatility (but which does require LoS). The TFC has a techmarine that can heal a vehicle without giving up his shooting, has some guns of his own that help if anything gets close, and has access to the Tremor Shells stratagem, which is quite frankly still amazing for 1cp (Halve targets movement and -2 to advance and charge, which on the mid-field objective focussed 9th is just absolute win). Also, the techmarine can also do action shenanigans, though he is a character which can limit that depending on which action it is. The quad mortar is bs3+ rather than 2+, and is notably easier to kill (loses 1 toughness, 2 wounds, and has a 3+ rather than 2+ save) but is 5 MB's cheaper.

 

Both are pretty good, I would say if you have any vehicles you think are gonna be hanging out near your backfield then the TFC is superior, or you think Tremor Shells are going to be clutch. The Quad mortar is superior for raw killing power.

[Hintzy]

Regarding the Whirlwind strat: remember it also forces the unit to activate last in combat, and lasts until your next turn. So it's basically a ranged, indirect fire, Judiciar that you can do preemptively to your opponent's scariest melee threat, provided it's on the board. I think that half of the ability is much more valuable, and the overwatch deny is just gravy.