the BIG 9th edition room

[KnightofSigismund]

Damn I’m writing this down, very clever.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Theres two big problems with that combo.

 

The first is giving up ancient breviary or tannhausers on a chaplain. The second is being stuck in combat with that vow. It's honestly probably better on a captain if you're not taking helbrecht; advance with the main bit of your army and potentially buff your brick and maybe a dread or two.

Yeah agreed not the most optimal holder of the relic, was just an example. The main thing I am getting at is we can buff a lot of units with +2A, and it works in every round of combat. Being stuck in combat with your combat units is a win to me!

It just means your list is going to be focussed more on bringing the already durable marine stuff. So more vanguard, bladeguard and possibly some thss termies as opposed to crusader blobs. If that's the type of list you already bring, then you can certainly flex into that vow and try it out, but if not, I don't think it's a great idea to just modify your relic and vow.

[Brother Kraskor]

That's the joy of Fervent Acclamation! I think it gives you enormous flexibility. Take the Vow that will best suit the opponent, whilst having the best of both worlds for a key unit.

[SkimaskMohawk]

I don't like fervant acclamation personally. 5++ is a must; extra attack and mortals on 6s are very good second prayers.

 

If we're incorporating the chaplain in, then the bonus attack prayer+shock attack fill the roll of the vow+relic for first round of combat without the drawback of the vow. Shock assault also kicks in again if they add anything else into the combat. Also no getting locked in combat.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Remember you can take the Crusader Helm to put a desired unit (prolly must be Core) into the assault doctrine… really nice one.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Black Blow Fly

[Brother Kraskor]

Thought of a horrible 500pt list...

 

EC (100)

2 Company Vets (40)

Redemptor (180) Plasma, OCG, SBs

Redemptor (180) Plasma, OCG, SBs

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

How to build 500 point list…

 

https://youtu.be/DOjTlcNI3No

[Brother Kraskor]

But those are balanced! 

[Tiger9gamer]

Hopefully will have my first 2k game tommorow for a ladder league. Using a vindicator, LRC, 2 rhinos, a redemptor and venerable dread with a bunch of crusaders and a VVet squad… gonna be bleeding some secondary points,  but I hope to have fun!

[Brother Kraskor]

Hopefully will have my first 2k game tommorow for a ladder league. Using a vindicator, LRC, 2 rhinos, a redemptor and venerable dread with a bunch of crusaders and a VVet squad… gonna be bleeding some secondary points,  but I hope to have fun!

 

Don't let the Vindi get charged. 

[Tiger9gamer]

 

Hopefully will have my first 2k game tommorow for a ladder league. Using a vindicator, LRC, 2 rhinos, a redemptor and venerable dread with a bunch of crusaders and a VVet squad… gonna be bleeding some secondary points,  but I hope to have fun!

 

Don't let the Vindi get charged. 

 

luckily it didn't! unfortunately it had some really bad rolls, and only killed an ATV and scratched a dreadnaught. My list doesn't have too much Anti-tank... or infantry, but I managed my first 2k win with my IRL army.

 

Some thoughts:

 

LRC did it's job and protected my 303pt VVet squad, captain and apothecary... and also took out 4 vets because I rolled poorly when it died. Apothecary brought 2 back over the game tho, and they were the lynchpin for saving my redemptor, as well as helping to take out half a squad of SS, Jump pack vets.

 

Uphold the honor of the emperor didn't save too much in terms of the mini-transhuman, but the invuln it gave everyone was good. could be annoying when I didn't save anything,, but it saved my venerable dread from getting crushed by a redemptor, and allowed it to hit back and kill it in the shooting phase.

 

A captain with SS, Thunder hammer and Tanhauser's bones is a glorious annoyance and can run off on his own fairly well. I recommend it!

 

crusader squads with two power fists are kinda whimpy without support. with chaplain support they took out almost a whole squad of 10 intercessors, but I also had a squad of 5 with chainswords in a punch up with interceptors for 3 turns and did nothing else.

 

Fervent acclimation is... okay. I only really used it to gain purge the unclean, and while good it wasn't too special. I took it by accident because I forgot to change it to remorseless persecution.

 

I Really like the fist of Balthar on the champion of the feast. it destroyed a lot!

Edited January 9, 2022 by Tiger9gamer

[Tokugawa]

One "black ork" horde player got 4th in a 70 players GT:

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Black Templars) [117 PL, 1,996pts, 9CP] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Chapter Selection: Black Templars

 

Detachment Command Cost

 

+ Stratagems +

 

Strategem: Relics of the Chapter [-1CP]: Number of Extra Relics

 

+ HQ +

 

Chaplain [5 PL, 80pts]: 6. Canticle of Hate (Aura), Boltgun, Litany of Hate, The Crusader's Helm

 

Chaplain Grimaldus [7 PL, 140pts]: 1. Litany of Divine Protection, 4. Fires of Devotion, Litany of Hate, Warlord

 

High Marshal Helbrecht [8 PL, 160pts]

 

+ Troops +

 

Primaris Crusader Squad [20 PL, 247pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword

. 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. 8x Primaris Neophytes: 8x Frag & Krak grenades

. Primaris Sword Brother: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword

 

Primaris Crusader Squad [20 PL, 247pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword

. 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. 8x Primaris Neophytes: 8x Frag & Krak grenades

. Primaris Sword Brother: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword

 

Primaris Crusader Squad [20 PL, 247pts]: Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword

. 5x Primaris Initiate w/Chainsword & Heavy Bolt Pistol: 5x Astartes Chainsword, 5x Frag & Krak grenades, 5x Heavy Bolt Pistol

. 8x Primaris Neophytes: 8x Frag & Krak grenades

. Primaris Sword Brother: Heavy Bolt Pistol, Power sword

 

+ Elites +

 

Judiciar [5 PL, 85pts]

 

Primaris Apothecary [5 PL, 115pts, -1CP]: Chapter Command: Chief Apothecary, Selfless Healer, Stratagem: Hero of the Chapter, The Aurillian Shroud

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 180pts]

. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

 

Attack Bike Squad [6 PL, 180pts]

. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

. Attack Bike: Multi-melta

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Eradicator Squad [15 PL, 315pts, -1CP]: Heavy melta rifle, The Crux Obsidian

. 5x Eradicator: 5x Bolt pistol

. Eradicator Sgt: Stratagem: Champion of the Feast

 

++ Total: [117 PL, 1,996pts, 9CP] ++

[Brother Kraskor]

One "black ork" horde player got 4th in a 70 players GT:

 

[snip]

 

No prizes for guessing the Vow he took...! 

[Brother Carpenter]

Is it possible to take more neo's then initiates???

[Tokugawa]

Is it possible to take more neo's then initiates???

In 9th rules, you can. 

[Brother Kraskor]

I wonder if the 14-strong units are really worth suffering full Blast. Why not consolidate into a 20-man and two 10-mans and have some points leftover. 

[Tiger9gamer]

I wonder if the 14-strong units are really worth suffering full Blast. Why not consolidate into a 20-man and two 10-mans and have some points leftover. 

I think because of buffs. they would have a 6+ or 5+ FNP on them, they have a better ability to use the crusader's helm assault doctrine, and the power armor can soak up no ap blasts.

 

at least thats how I see it!

[Brother Kraskor]

 

I wonder if the 14-strong units are really worth suffering full Blast. Why not consolidate into a 20-man and two 10-mans and have some points leftover. 

I think because of buffs. they would have a 6+ or 5+ FNP on them, they have a better ability to use the crusader's helm assault doctrine, and the power armor can soak up no ap blasts.

 

at least thats how I see it!

 

 

But these buffs could equally apply to a 20-10-10 formation (and indeed the 5+++ is more efficient on the 20-man). And you would only expose yourself to maximum Blast on one unit, not three. It's obviously working for him I guess.

 

Edit: Thinking of other uses for Sgt upgrades. Anyone thought about making an Outrider Feast Champion with MC Chainsword? Sounds odd but say you pair with a Chaplain on Bike giving +1 to wound Litany and re-roll hits. Now he's got 8 attacks on the charge, hitting on 2s, wounding MEQ on 3s, in a relatively cheap & fast unit. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Brother Kraskor

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

I wonder if the 14-strong units are really worth suffering full Blast. Why not consolidate into a 20-man and two 10-mans and have some points leftover. 

I think because of buffs. they would have a 6+ or 5+ FNP on them, they have a better ability to use the crusader's helm assault doctrine, and the power armor can soak up no ap blasts.

 

at least thats how I see it!

 

 

But these buffs could equally apply to a 20-10-10 formation (and indeed the 5+++ is more efficient on the 20-man). And you would only expose yourself to maximum Blast on one unit, not three. It's obviously working for him I guess.

 

Edit: Thinking of other uses for Sgt upgrades. Anyone thought about making an Outrider Feast Champion with MC Chainsword? Sounds odd but say you pair with a Chaplain on Bike giving +1 to wound Litany and re-roll hits. Now he's got 8 attacks on the charge, hitting on 2s, wounding MEQ on 3s, in a relatively cheap & fast unit. 

 

 

I think the big part is that there simply aren't too many blasts in higher level competitive lists. Mixed eldar and orks are the ones that feature it the most, and orks are mostly anti-vehicle. Between aurelian shroud and the mass of 6+ fnp, the list is rather durable:

 

-a full Freeboota-procc'd buggy volley averages 9 wounds. When the shroud and transhuman is popped, that drops right down to 5.6. Now that's still a lot of dead neophytes, but that's one of the best anti-horde, 2 damage units in the game.

 

-A fully buffed Wazbomma that's hitting on 3s and rerolling 1s averages 2.3 failed saves from the tellyporta blastas (not going to bother with the fnp because it generally won't stop enough to save a model).

 

-Freeboota koptas average 3

 

-Freeboota scrapjets average 3.3

 

So if every blast weapon in an ork list got to max out blasts and buffs, they'd be able to kill one unit of prime-crusaders in a round of shooting. And they don't get to.

 

The thought of running multiple units of maxed neophyte count is to max out on cheap primaris melee, and to not telegraph a huge point sink to shoot (or not shoot, if you can just snipe off the smaller units and remove scoring capability). Some lists manipulate point values for To the Last as well, though I don't think that's the case here.

[Tiger9gamer]

so what's the thought on bringing 2 powerfists in a squad of ten primaris crusaders? all I see are just chainswords in most lists, and it feels almost wrong not to bring special weapons.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Tiger9gamer

[Tokugawa]

Ork players with enough blast weapons won't want to entirely delete one crusader squad in one turn at all; they will try to cripple two instead. Once you active the defensive buffs like transhuman on one crusader unit, it is reasonable to turn guns at another. If they kill 5+ models in two units each, you will directly face morale problems. Edited January 10, 2022 by Tokugawa

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

so what's the thought on bringing 2 powerfists in a squad of ten primaris crusaders? all I see are just chainswords in most lists, and it feels almost wrong not to bring special weapons.

.

 

Yesterday they completely whiffed three fight passes in a row… could not hit the broad side of a big red barn. That said I think I’ll keep em.

[Tokugawa]

so what's the thought on bringing 2 powerfists in a squad of ten primaris crusaders? all I see are just chainswords in most lists, and it feels almost wrong not to bring special weapons.

Good weapon should always go along with model with higher A. 10 assault intercessors with fist of Balthus is more optimized.

[Tiger9gamer]

 

so what's the thought on bringing 2 powerfists in a squad of ten primaris crusaders? all I see are just chainswords in most lists, and it feels almost wrong not to bring special weapons.

Good weapon should always go along with model with higher A. 10 assault intercessors with fist of Balthus is more optimized.

 

fair enough! Though the fist of belthas is reserved for my Vangaurd vets or terminators. it goes great on my Champion of the feast!

 

besidesm, i asked about regular powerfists, like the ones that goes on initiates :D

Edited January 11, 2022 by Tiger9gamer

[SkimaskMohawk]

Ork players with enough blast weapons won't want to entirely delete one crusader squad in one turn at all; they will try to cripple two instead. Once you active the defensive buffs like transhuman on one crusader unit, it is reasonable to turn guns at another. If they kill 5+ models in two units each, you will directly face morale problems.

?

 

freebootaz absolutely want to kill a whole unit to proc their army wide +1 to hit. They pop waagh turn 1 and look to win off the first two turns through sheer firepower and all their blast weapons are part of that. I'm not really sure how to communicate that doing 33% damage to a bunch of enemy units instead of removing them is a sure fire way to lose games, let alone on what's supposed to be an army's strongest turn and giving up its subfaction bonus.

 

Like, the average on full bonus from their blast weapons was only 14 dead marines. You're saying that it's better to focus on killing ~5 per squad with all their most powerful weapons and then maybe get a couple more with the the rivet buggies/artillery and hope those units fail leadership when the chaplains are giving them 9? You need to kill 7 guys to make it better than a coin flip on failing, and then average 1 more running away. And then the 6 melta bikes and 5 eradicators trash everything that's now in the open. Or whatever ranged unit that does high damage if we're not talking specifically about the black tide list.

 

This is all getting rather far from my initial point of how the scariest blast weapon army in the game isn't actually that scary to this list. Full proccd bootaz have to waste a good units shooting baiting out transhuman and then pivot. Best case for them, the second wazbomma does it's 2.3, then the rest of the power units kill ~14 models with their blasts. That's incredibly low for giving full blast into an army with all of its best weapons being blast.