One Space Marine Codex with Supplements Construct

[TorvaldTheMild]

Just wondering if anyone has any inside knowledge of the direction Space Marine chapters are going in, in particular the mutated chapters.  It seems to me that GW are going back to the 2nd edition days and making SM's stock, like BA's and SW's basically just having the flavour in how they look rather than having so many specialised units like TWC, Death Company etc.

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

They're getting supplements, so I would imagine in order to fill an entire supplement, they're going to at least have unique rules and stratagems that make them mechanically unique from vanilla chapters, and/or they'll get a few of their unique units back. What I can see happening is their truly unique units like Wulfen and Sanguinary Guard become Legends but their supplement gives them """unique""" units like Death Company Intercessors or maybe Wolf Guard Bladeguard with frost volkites and frost blades or something. Sort of a cop out, but it's what they're going to have to do unless they are willing to create true unique Primaris plastics for these chapters and not just give them things like the BA Lieutenant and DA Captain. I don't see them making new plastics like Wulfen into Legends for a long time, which also means there is less incentive for GW to make, for example, Primaris Wulfen or TWC.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Tyberos the Red Wake

[brother_b]

Nah they won’t do that this edition.

[Hymnblade]

Just wondering if anyone has any inside knowledge of the direction Space Marine chapters are going in, in particular the mutated chapters.  It seems to me that GW are going back to the 2nd edition days and making SM's stock, like BA's and SW's basically just having the flavour in how they look rather than having so many specialised units like TWC, Death Company etc.

The existing supplement books already contain chapter-specific datasheets. I don't see any reason they wouldn't do the same for BA/DA/SW/DW.

[Spinsanity]

There were 12 Datasheets in yhe UM supplement. Looking at, say, the Wolves, about half the current ‘dex is just repeats of units that are in C:SM. Sure that still leaves about 30 datasheets, maybe more, but so what? Might a few units be turned into Legends? Maybe, but I don’t really see why, not until GW starts culling the line anyway...

[Dracos]

 

The existing supplement books already contain chapter-specific datasheets. I don't see any reason they wouldn't do the same for BA/DA/SW/DW.

 

 

Raven Guard got one unique datasheet. Yeah that's the same thing. 

 

Brought to you by Inquisitor Salty. :)

[USNCenturion]

 

I guess I should have clarified, I read Brother Tyler's post about the hypothetical situation where they roll the other 3 back into the main codex and are just supplements. The supplements would then add the access to the current unique units like deathwing knights but then they would also automatically have access to everything the "vanilla" factions would get because of the codex.

 

That was my concern if they did do that, it's only fair for each to have some exclusives.

In third edition there was just one Codex SM and all other chapter were supplements

At the start of each army list there was a list of the units available to that chapter (for example BT had no devastator squad and no librarians) and then there was the list of the esclusive units

If they do the same they canzone tell you that DA don't have Stern guarda, Vanguard, and so on and then the give you a list of the DA esclusive datasheets

 

It would be simple

Glory days mate. I’d sign for that in a heartbeat.

[Sete]

It will be fine, I do not believe for a second that GW wont do chapter special units eventually.

The Primaris Range is already robust, its only a matter of time.

[ShibeKing]

They could use Primaris as a way to make the Space Wolves more Viking like and less Teen Wolf. I don't even like that chapter, but they're so popular it would be surprising for GW to not make chapter specific units.

[Lemondish]

I expect each supplement to include the entire current set of chapter specific units found in each of their separate Chapter codexes today.

 

I also expect it to include a section that lists what units from the base codex they do not have access to.

 

I think the only real impact here is that these chapters are essentially expected to purchase the main codex and their supplement. The way the army functions, from units they can't access to special units only they get, will be mostly identical to today but split across two books instead of included in one.

[Spinsanity]

I think the only real impact here is that these chapters are essentially expected to purchase the main codex and their supplement. The way the army functions, from units they can't access to special units only they get, will be mostly identical to today but split across two books instead of included in one.

Which is exactly how all other chapters work already...

[Lemondish]

 

I think the only real impact here is that these chapters are essentially expected to purchase the main codex and their supplement. The way the army functions, from units they can't access to special units only they get, will be mostly identical to today but split across two books instead of included in one.

Which is exactly how all other chapters work already...

Exactly.

 

Meaning there's really nothing to worry about regarding the special unique units, their special rules, etc.

[Zustiur]

It will be very interesting to see exactly how they handle the current differences. Will DA (for example) suddenly switch to having separate units of tactical and assault terminators? Or will regular marines gain the flexibility of deathwing?

Nobody knows. Yet.

[painting.for.my.sanity]

It will be very interesting to see exactly how they handle the current differences. Will DA (for example) suddenly switch to having separate units of tactical and assault terminators? Or will regular marines gain the flexibility of deathwing?

Nobody knows. Yet.

 

We can at least make some inferences about regular marines from the leaked ToC - https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/hxqsi1/new_space_marine_codex_table_of_contents/ - given there are entries for Terminator Squad, Terminator Assault Squad and Relic Terminator Squad, it looks like some distinctions will remain, but with Cataphractii and Tartaros being rolled together. How that effects the DAs though, of course, remains unclear.

[clanfield]

unjique data slates:

 

wolves 49 counting ragnar as one not two

 

dangels 27

i dont have the blangels codx for 8th

 

so thease are ones that are not duplicates

 

i guess they got more units than back in 3rd eh :P

[Mandragola]

I think it makes sense to fold all the chapters into the main book, with a supplement for each. It avoids having to duplicate everything across multiple books with the issues that always creates. BA predators still being able to use kill shot, or whatever.

 

I'm surprised that GW (or possibly FW) hasn't done more to create custom bits for people to stick on their Primaris. When I first saw the Intercessor kit with its separate greaves I thought that meant they were going to create sets of chapter-specific greaves and shoulder pads. But then the upgrade kits just include shoulder pads and transfers that oddly duplicate the function of those shoulder pads.

 

I'm curious to see the new BA supplement. I've always kind of liked them but never made an army.

[Spinsanity]

unjique data slates:

 

wolves 49 counting ragnar as one not two

 

49? I could see GW temoving a few of the ones that barely vary from the original if they want to cut down the page count, even though we all know SW players would complain to no end... For example Rune Priests might get rolled back into the Librarian unit entry. A quick look through C:SW and PA:SotB had me bring your 49 entries down to a potential 30 if Geedub decides to aggressively cut down on a few units that are already nearly identical to their Codex counterparts...

[clanfield]

there are some odd bits now especially primarus lt which options need to be standardised.

 

i agree but even in 3rd rune priest where there own entry vs libbys etc

[Blindhamster]

i could definitely see them aggressively cutting down on things that are only superficially different from standard codex stuff tbh.

 

Blood Angels are definitely easiest for this treatment. we only have 19 unique datasheets anyway.

• Dante
• Seth
• Sanguinor
• Corbulo
• Sanguinary Priest
• Mephiston
• Librarian Dread
• Astorath
• Lemartes
• Tycho the lost
• Captain Tycho
• Sanguinary Guard
• Sanguinary Ancient
• Sanguinary Novitiate
• Death Company
• Death Company Dread
• Death Company Intercessors
• Furioso Dread
• Baal Predator

 

Of the above, i could easily see both version of tycho going the Legends route, i could also see something where Sanguinary priests and Sanguinary novitiates get rolled into Apothecaries and Chief Apothecaries or something - perhaps a strat to upgrade them to get a rule for grails, who knows.

 

Blood Angels uniqueness comes from some of the weapon options (inferno pistols being an option in a lot of places, melta guns on assault squads etc) and really their characters. They've always been a pretty codex adherent chapter outside of a couple of deviators based on traditions (we had honour guard instead of command squads, and then we got sanguinary guard as their replacement and got regular command squads).

Dark Angels and Space Wolves deviate a lot more (although for Dark Angels they're codex adherent except for 1st and 2nd companies).
 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Blindhamster

[Dracos]

 

unjique data slates:

 

wolves 49 counting ragnar as one not two

49? I could see GW temoving a few of the ones that barely vary from the original if they want to cut down the page count, even though we all know SW players would complain to no end... For example Rune Priests might get rolled back into the Librarian unit entry. A quick look through C:SW and PA:SotB had me bring your 49 entries down to a potential 30 if Geedub decides to aggressively cut down on a few units that are already nearly identical to their Codex counterparts...

 

 

So that becomes about 7 pages back and front of datasheets? Totally capable of fitting that in a Supplement. Might incentivize them to give other Founding Chapters some equal treatment. 

 

A supplement dedicated to Succession Chapters would be boss. 

[War Angel]

A supplement for cursed founding could also be a thing? Though maybe not so much seeing as Primaris fixed everything

[MegaVolt87]

SW, BA, DA could absoloutely get a shrink down to suplement level. All they need is a one page ban list on what they can't take from the main SM dex, a small designers note explaining, examples such as SW rune priest is still a SM psyker etc. Supplements are the future of factions IMO.

[Blindhamster]

will be interesting to see if they do get a "ban list" i'm honestly not expecting it, each iteration of those books have added more of the core marine units, so i would be surprised if they go through effort of it, but i also wont be too bothered either way

[Lord_Caerolion]

I mean, do Rune Priests really need a whole datasheet to themselves, instead of just stating "Space Wolves call their Librarians Rune Priests. Use Librarians, but they also get the runic Inv Save, and get access to the Space Wolf psychic powers."

[MegaVolt87]

I mean, do Rune Priests really need a whole datasheet to themselves, instead of just stating "Space Wolves call their Librarians Rune Priests. Use Librarians, but they also get the runic Inv Save, and get access to the Space Wolf psychic powers."

Rune priest has an existing model, so yes it should have its own entry in a SW suplement. So old marine libby would be one entry on a SW supplement ban list from the main dex for example. Would not need more than a page to tidy stuff like that up.