Heavy Intercessors

[Captain Idaho]

I'm thinking my Predator is going to see a lot more use though...

 

Any other solid counters? Melee of course, because Vanguard Veterans jumping into them will cause a big mess anyway.

[Blindhamster]

melee honestly seems the best way to deal with them, they're not fast, nor are they packing any special melee weapons. Toughness 5 means you want a dedicated melee unit, not a bully unit like intercessors. Vanguard seem a very good shout, or death company for blood angels, deathwing knights for dark angels i guess?

[Mandragola]

Heavy plasma, if it gets upgraded to D2/3, will be a serious threat to these guys. So much so that units like heavy hellblasters or plasma cannon devastators might well be worth considering.

 

I'll be a bit annoyed if I somehow have to convert a devastator squad. I really don't want to have to mix in non-Primaris bodies but plasma cannons, multimeltas and heavy bolters all look like great options. Plasma cannon or heavy bolter devastators would arguably be a much better home objective holder than heavy intercessors, with roughly double their firepower for about the same cost.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

It's kinda early to look for counters because we don't know if points for the improved weapons will change. That said I think razorbacks with twin heavy bolters are going to be really good with the upcoming 2 wound meta, and can really help out against units like this one.

[Karhedron]

While people are bumping up 6-7 intercessors to compare stats/ points etc, people will either be taking 10 man units or combat squading, or just taking 5 man units to rob blast weapons of their potency. No one is taking 6-7 man intercessors units, likewise with these. This is a great 5 man unit no doubts for 9th edition.

While this is true, 5 Heavy Intercessors look like they will cost about as much 7 regular Intercessors and have nearly the same number of wounds. This makes it nice and easy to do a like-for-like comparison of their capabilities, even if you are unlikely to take 7 in practice.

[Blindhamster]

and you can't do a 5vs5 compariosn when the heavy intercessors are likely to cost 5-10 more points per model. I suppose you could do 10 heavies vs 15 regular as a more realistic comparison though

[Stickeh]

Heavy plasma, if it gets upgraded to D2/3, will be a serious threat to these guys. So much so that units like heavy hellblasters or plasma cannon devastators might well be worth considering.

 

I'll be a bit annoyed if I somehow have to convert a devastator squad. I really don't want to have to mix in non-Primaris bodies but plasma cannons, multimeltas and heavy bolters all look like great options. Plasma cannon or heavy bolter devastators would arguably be a much better home objective holder than heavy intercessors, with roughly double their firepower for about the same cost.

There’s a ton of primaris conversions with devastator weapons out there, they look really good, particularly if you use the hellblaster models as a base with their additional armour plates. I’ll be converting a few up for 9th when the codex drops for sure.

[TheNewman]

 

 

I'm surprised people aren't talking much about these guys in Salamanders lists. I'm also thinking that in terms of Fists, it may come down to a question of bolter shots vs durability and mobility, since they won't be nearly as durable for Fists as they are for Salamanders and Iron Hands. I think Raven Guard will have better things to infiltrate, but I kind of want to see some hellstorm lads in a White Scars setting.

WS lad here... these guys don't excite me at all. They are slow, cannot go into Impulsors, and don't appear to have access to power weapons. Pass.

 

Putting on my Raven Guard lad hat, these guys look great for backfield objective holding. I would consider taking them if the points are right.

Also a WS lad, and I agree they're not very exciting from here. I'm still going to buy a box to build the Heavy and Rapid Fire variants for back-field duty though.

 

Proper Sergeant weapons wouldn't hurt, but they're a lot fewer attacks per point than Intercessors.

[TheNewman]

Heavy plasma, if it gets upgraded to D2/3, will be a serious threat to these guys. So much so that units like heavy hellblasters or plasma cannon devastators might well be worth considering.

 

I'll be a bit annoyed if I somehow have to convert a devastator squad. I really don't want to have to mix in non-Primaris bodies but plasma cannons, multimeltas and heavy bolters all look like great options. Plasma cannon or heavy bolter devastators would arguably be a much better home objective holder than heavy intercessors, with roughly double their firepower for about the same cost.

Nothing stopping you from picking up a box of Intercessors and a box of Devastators and kit-bashing if it's just the aesthetic that bothers you. I know I'd be doing that if I didn't already own a whole company of Firstborn.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Could a hellblaster squad end up able to take a plasma cannon like these can take a heavy bolter and eradicators a multi melta? Edited September 15, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Riddlesworth]

There are so many permutations - standing still or moving, devestator or tactical doctrine, rapid fire activated or not.

 

For sitting on home objective and putting out fire, Executioner feels best. For moving to take objectives and hold them (which may well be better done by other troops), Hellstorm feels best. For Imperial Fists and Iron Hands, there's turn 1 play for movement and 3/4 damage guns. For Ultramarines, with 2 turns of tactical doctrine, 2 strats to activate bolter discipline/be in tactical doctrine, i'm leaning on the rapid fire honestly. 

[Karhedron]

Could a hellblaster squad end up able to take a plasma cannon like these can take a heavy bolter and eradicators a multi melta?

While it sounds plausible, I suspect that the answer is "no" as they would need to modify the sprues. If Hellblasters were being released today, it would make sense but the chances of them being redone for the purpose seems unlikely.

[emperorpants]

There are so many permutations - standing still or moving, devestator or tactical doctrine, rapid fire activated or not.

 

For sitting on home objective and putting out fire, Executioner feels best. For moving to take objectives and hold them (which may well be better done by other troops), Hellstorm feels best. For Imperial Fists and Iron Hands, there's turn 1 play for movement and 3/4 damage guns. For Ultramarines, with 2 turns of tactical doctrine, 2 strats to activate bolter discipline/be in tactical doctrine, i'm leaning on the rapid fire honestly.

 

For Ultras I almost think the executioner might be the way to go sometimes. With the squad doctrines strat, ultras can keep them in the devestator doctrine the whole game. Bolt rifle intercessors can move up and handle normal troops. These boys can sit on a back objective and blast tougher troops/units while getting extra ap from the devestator doctrine. No other chapter can keep them in the devestator doctrine past turn one.

[TheNewman]

Could a hellblaster squad end up able to take a plasma cannon like these can take a heavy bolter and eradicators a multi melta?

That's a possibility but I'm not sure you'd want to do it. With the Heavies going to D2 the Plasma Cannon is only an improvement at range over the Rapid Fire variant, and those are almost always going to end up in an Impulsor. They'd need a bespoke Heavy Plasma Annihilator to be worth looking at, and on top of that it would mean repackaging the Hellblasters with a new sprue or putting out a stand-alone kit like they did for the Intercessor Sergeant (although that seems to have gone away...).

 

Then again; adding Heavy Bolters to the Intercessor options and Plasma Cannons to the Hellblasters would probably sell some more Devastator boxes for kit-bashing, so I can't say "that ain't happening" out of hand.

 

Edit: For the record, I've got 15 more Hellblasters and 20 more Intercessors than I've ever considered putting in a list. Intercessors getting Heavy Bolters and Hellblasters getting Plasma Cannons wouldn't do it, but Intercessors also getting Grav Cannons and/or Missile Launchers and Hellblasters also getting Lascannons and/or Multimeltas would be the tipping point where cannibalizing the heavy weapons on my existing Firstborn to update my Primaris would start looking like a good idea.

Edited September 15, 2020 by TheNewman

[Riddlesworth]

 

There are so many permutations - standing still or moving, devestator or tactical doctrine, rapid fire activated or not.

 

For sitting on home objective and putting out fire, Executioner feels best. For moving to take objectives and hold them (which may well be better done by other troops), Hellstorm feels best. For Imperial Fists and Iron Hands, there's turn 1 play for movement and 3/4 damage guns. For Ultramarines, with 2 turns of tactical doctrine, 2 strats to activate bolter discipline/be in tactical doctrine, i'm leaning on the rapid fire honestly.

For Ultras I almost think the executioner might be the way to go sometimes. With the squad doctrines strat, ultras can keep them in the devestator doctrine the whole game. Bolt rifle intercessors can move up and handle normal troops. These boys can sit on a back objective and blast tougher troops/units while getting extra ap from the devestator doctrine. No other chapter can keep them in the devestator doctrine past turn one.

 

If you were running a single squad to sit on home objective, then absolutely. AP-3 on the Executioner set for 1CP in turn 2, 3 and 4 is solid. multiple units or moving, maybe not. I don't think that Exectioner is the clear winner all the time every time, though. Which is good design imo

[Mandragola]

 

 

There are so many permutations - standing still or moving, devestator or tactical doctrine, rapid fire activated or not.

 

For sitting on home objective and putting out fire, Executioner feels best. For moving to take objectives and hold them (which may well be better done by other troops), Hellstorm feels best. For Imperial Fists and Iron Hands, there's turn 1 play for movement and 3/4 damage guns. For Ultramarines, with 2 turns of tactical doctrine, 2 strats to activate bolter discipline/be in tactical doctrine, i'm leaning on the rapid fire honestly.

For Ultras I almost think the executioner might be the way to go sometimes. With the squad doctrines strat, ultras can keep them in the devestator doctrine the whole game. Bolt rifle intercessors can move up and handle normal troops. These boys can sit on a back objective and blast tougher troops/units while getting extra ap from the devestator doctrine. No other chapter can keep them in the devestator doctrine past turn one.

 

If you were running a single squad to sit on home objective, then absolutely. AP-3 on the Executioner set for 1CP in turn 2, 3 and 4 is solid. multiple units or moving, maybe not. I don't think that Exectioner is the clear winner all the time every time, though. Which is good design imo

 

If I was going to use a strat to make a unit with heavy weapons count as being in devastator doctrine, it wouldn't be heavy intercessors. I'd go for something with far more firepower I think.

 

As someone above pointed out, ultramarines with RF rifles might well be the way to go.You get a great mix of range, ap and rate of fire. They'll be pretty scary while in tactical doctrine.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Just a quick grammatical point because I'm particular like this, but the 42" Heavy 1 gun is not an "Executioner."  It's an "Executor," like Vader's super star destroyer at Hoth & Endor.

 

 

Carry on.

[emperorpants]

 

 

There are so many permutations - standing still or moving, devestator or tactical doctrine, rapid fire activated or not.

 

For sitting on home objective and putting out fire, Executioner feels best. For moving to take objectives and hold them (which may well be better done by other troops), Hellstorm feels best. For Imperial Fists and Iron Hands, there's turn 1 play for movement and 3/4 damage guns. For Ultramarines, with 2 turns of tactical doctrine, 2 strats to activate bolter discipline/be in tactical doctrine, i'm leaning on the rapid fire honestly.

 

For Ultras I almost think the executioner might be the way to go sometimes. With the squad doctrines strat, ultras can keep them in the devestator doctrine the whole game. Bolt rifle intercessors can move up and handle normal troops. These boys can sit on a back objective and blast tougher troops/units while getting extra ap from the devestator doctrine. No other chapter can keep them in the devestator doctrine past turn one.

If you were running a single squad to sit on home objective, then absolutely. AP-3 on the Executioner set for 1CP in turn 2, 3 and 4 is solid. multiple units or moving, maybe not. I don't think that Exectioner is the clear winner all the time every time, though. Which is good design imo

Agreed. I think these guys actually have pretty good synergy with Ultras whichever option you go with. A case could reasonably be made for all weapon options. Assault version might be weakest imo, at least for Ultras.

[Riddlesworth]

If I was going to use a strat to make a unit with heavy weapons count as being in devastator doctrine, it wouldn't be heavy intercessors. I'd go for something with far more firepower I think.

 

As someone above pointed out, ultramarines with RF rifles might well be the way to go.You get a great mix of range, ap and rate of fire. They'll be pretty scary while in tactical doctrine.

Quoted for the truth of the first part.

And the acknowledgment of the second part: Executor (I hear you IFF) and Heavy Rifle squads with the associated heavy weapon producing exactly the same output in Tactical doctrine.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[Dracos]

They’re not in the same class but it’s nice to have a Troop Option with some heft, after seeing what Kataphron Breachers are about during the weekend tournament.

[Red_Shift]

I’ve taken the opportunity of the Xmas break to re read the codex properly. The executioner variant seems to be the best, particularly when paired with aggressors. I don’t see a particular need to move them if they are deployed well so being heavy isn’t too much of an issue.