Heavy Intercessors

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Don’t bet the farm on it.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I could maybe see them getting a defensive bonus if they stay still.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What would happen though if they don’t ?

[ChargingSoll]

 

Just realised that the aggressors and eradicaters both have rules for shooting twice. What are the chances that the heavy intercessors will have something similar.

Slim.

 

Inceptors don't have such a rule.

Instability from flying?

Edited September 3, 2020 by ChargingSoll

[Lord_Caerolion]

What would happen though if they don’t ?

 

Get to ignore the first -1AP if they didn't move? I just don't see them as being a particularly offensively-focused unit. They're going to be Battleline, so their role is holding a line, not wiping out everything in their path.

[redmapa]

Well they are troops and Im betting they'll be in smaller squads than other troop choices so if GW is feeling inspired then they could just give them a rule for them to count as double the amount of models for the purpose of contesting objectives, so a 6 man squad would count as a 12 man squad.

[Silas7]

 

And the Dreadnoughts and tanks seem to fit with the light/medium/heavy theme.

 

Looking forward to the heavy Gravis aligned Dreadnought

 

Should put the Leviathan out of business

 

Never gonna happen

[Dracos]

I’ll believe that when I see it in plastic ;)

[Fenriwolf]

Well,more or less as expected

 

They are basically all three variants of standard shooty intercessor with +1Str +6", on a gravis platform 

 

Also,i have the vague impression that whoever wrote the datasheet used the WIP names for the weapons while writing half of the weapon swap rules

 

 

I have to admit Heavy intercessor heavy stalker bolt rifle would be wolf claw of wolfy wolfiness meme-level worth though...

Edited September 12, 2020 by Fenriwolf

[Marshal Reinhard]

I like 'em quite a lot. Need heavy assault intercessors before i can commit to an all gravis force.

[Riddlesworth]

Power level is interesting, though it has minimal bearing on points these days. If gravis are staying at 40 ppm, 200 points for these dudes just doesn't cut it. I would be tempted at 175 but....

 

I'm not sold. Models are nice, but not sure i see them replacing incursors for me

Edited September 12, 2020 by Riddlesworth

[Fenriwolf]

Not really sold either.When i think how much they'll likely cost point wise (PL they are the same as inceptors),i don't really see them really outputting enough fire over regular intercessors of equivalent type. 

 

Still.They hare harder to move with T5/3W so there is that.Time will tell i guess

Edited September 12, 2020 by Fenriwolf

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Well, I'm glad I was wrong about these guys being a multi-build kit with the Eradictors. More options for both squads than I was anticipating, aside from just the fact that Heavy Intercessors will come five to a pack.

 

Also glad to see the heavy option for each weapon type. Be nice if the standard Intercessor Squad had something like that (the Auxiliary Grenade Launcher ain't it, chief).

Edited September 12, 2020 by Lord Nord

[War Angel]

Was kind of hoping that these would be all heavy bolter ish.

 

As is they just seem like normal intercessors with extra wound/ toughness and a heavy weapon option.

[TheNewman]

Well, I'm glad I was wrong about these guys being a multi-build kit with the Eradictors. More options for both squads than I was anticipating, aside from just the fact that Heavy Intercessors will come five to a pack.

 

Also glad to see the heavy option for each weapon type. Be nice if the standard Intercessor Squad had something like that (the Auxiliary Grenade Launcher ain't it, chief).

Heavy Intercessors are a 5-10 squad, you'd have to buy a lot of them to make it come out even if they were a dual kit with the Eradicators.

 

Also, they dropped a teaser that Eradicators will have multiple versions of the melta rifle as well. Fitting three different Heavy Bolt Rifles and three different Melta Rifles and three different heavy weapon upgrades for each in a single dual-kit would have left an awful lot of extra bits on the sprue, even for a GW kit.

[jaxom]

Was kind of hoping that these would be all heavy bolter ish.

 

As is they just seem like normal intercessors with extra wound/ toughness and a heavy weapon option.

 

They seem to have split the difference; you can either get the Damage 2 with the Executor bolt rifles or you can get the Assault 3 with the Hellstorm bolt rifle. I think looking at the Combat Doctrines helps as well.

 

Devastator - Executor Bolt Rifle 42" Heavy 1 Str5 AP-3 2D will wreck 2W models and light vehicles.

Dark Angels have some very nice deployment options from the turn 1 range boost. 

Imperial Fists will get 3D against vehicles and fortifications (looks increasingly significant in 9th).

 

 

Tactical - Hellstorm Bolt Rifle 30" Assault 3 Str5 AP-1 1D these are the replacement for the old heavy bolter. Heavy Bolt Rifle 36" Rapid Fire 1 Str5 AP-2 1D are the middle ground.

30" is really long for the most part; unless you really need the extra 6" then the Hellstorm's extra shot (3 vs 2 with Bolter Discipline) beats the pants off the extra AP (or unless you're fighting Salamanders or Order of the Valorous Heart).

Bolter Fusillades, Rapid Assault are still useful here; same for Imperial Fists getting the extra hit on an unmodified six.

 

Assault - Three attacks on the first turn of combat, Str4 AP-1 1D isn't great compared to dedicated assault units, but it'll wreck most non-marine non-assault units.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

Well, I'm glad I was wrong about these guys being a multi-build kit with the Eradictors. More options for both squads than I was anticipating, aside from just the fact that Heavy Intercessors will come five to a pack.

 

Also glad to see the heavy option for each weapon type. Be nice if the standard Intercessor Squad had something like that (the Auxiliary Grenade Launcher ain't it, chief).

Heavy Intercessors are a 5-10 squad, you'd have to buy a lot of them to make it come out even if they were a dual kit with the Eradicators.

 

We didn't know that before today. In fact, we already got the reveal that they were a separate kit before we saw the datasheet confirming their unit size.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Lord Nord

[RedRykno]

 

 

Well, I'm glad I was wrong about these guys being a multi-build kit with the Eradictors. More options for both squads than I was anticipating, aside from just the fact that Heavy Intercessors will come five to a pack.

Also glad to see the heavy option for each weapon type. Be nice if the standard Intercessor Squad had something like that (the Auxiliary Grenade Launcher ain't it, chief).

 

Heavy Intercessors are a 5-10 squad, you'd have to buy a lot of them to make it come out even if they were a dual kit with the Eradicators.

 

We didn't know that before today. In fact, we already got the reveal that they were a separate kit before we saw the datasheet confirming their unit size.

Yeah but the original quote references the revel we had today and is after the stream time so he likely already saw the datasheet and missed the squad size.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

 

 

Well, I'm glad I was wrong about these guys being a multi-build kit with the Eradictors. More options for both squads than I was anticipating, aside from just the fact that Heavy Intercessors will come five to a pack.

Also glad to see the heavy option for each weapon type. Be nice if the standard Intercessor Squad had something like that (the Auxiliary Grenade Launcher ain't it, chief).

Heavy Intercessors are a 5-10 squad, you'd have to buy a lot of them to make it come out even if they were a dual kit with the Eradicators.

 

We didn't know that before today. In fact, we already got the reveal that they were a separate kit before we saw the datasheet confirming their unit size.

Yeah but the original quote references the revel we had today and is after the stream time so he likely already saw the datasheet and missed the squad size.

 

 

"He" is me. I think I know what I meant. And no, I DIDN'T miss the squad size. My (incorrect) speculation that the Heavy Intercessors were sharing a kit with the Eradicators was shown to be wrong when we saw the models. Only after that did we see the datasheet, by which time the squad size was irrelevant as I already knew they were different kits.

 

Maybe the part you guys are missing is that we've known the Heavy Intercessors were coming since July. We just hadn't gotten a clear look at any of the models and certainly didn't have any info on their squad size. A couple of blurry photos and the fact that all prior Gravis squads have come in three-man kits were what led me to think they might be a single multi-build kit. I wasn't basing a guess I made in July on clear pictures that we didn't see until today or a datasheet that we didn't see until after the models were revealed.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Lord Nord

[Captain Idaho]

Gravis has evolved to look cool, but just a thicker Marine and not a variant armour type in visuals like Terminators might be. It's really cool.

 

I would like to see conversions of them into Aggressors who are suffering from being the first released before feedback was given and thus the armour revised. I bet they'd look awesome.

 

I know this won't be popular, but we need a revision of Aggressors to be "modern" and although I think there's too much for Marines in the release schedule, they totally need it comparing them to what's coming out now.

 

***

 

On the table I think Heavy Intercessors will either be good value and thus regular Intercessors won't have a role, or they'd be too expensive for what they do.

 

The reason I say this is the role of fire support at cheapest cost in the Troops is taken up by Tactical Marines (2 wounds 9th edition Codex), deployment denial by Infiltrators, cheapness by Scouts (unless moved out of the Troops), deployment advancement by Incursors and at cost Infiltrators and assault by Assault Intercessors and Incursors in a pinch.

 

Intercessors were the wall of bodies advancing to the centre with your powerful Elites and heavy support units. That job is done better by Heavy Intercessors if they're cheap enough. If they're too expensive, that's done by Intercessors.

[UnkyHamHam]

Gravis has evolved to look cool, but just a thicker Marine and not a variant armour type in visuals like Terminators might be. It's really cool.

 

I would like to see conversions of them into Aggressors who are suffering from being the first released before feedback was given and thus the armour revised. I bet they'd look awesome.

 

I know this won't be popular, but we need a revision of Aggressors to be "modern" and although I think there's too much for Marines in the release schedule, they totally need it comparing them to what's coming out now.

 

***

 

On the table I think Heavy Intercessors will either be good value and thus regular Intercessors won't have a role, or they'd be too expensive for what they do.

 

The reason I say this is the role of fire support at cheapest cost in the Troops is taken up by Tactical Marines (2 wounds 9th edition Codex), deployment denial by Infiltrators, cheapness by Scouts (unless moved out of the Troops), deployment advancement by Incursors and at cost Infiltrators and assault by Assault Intercessors and Incursors in a pinch.

 

Intercessors were the wall of bodies advancing to the centre with your powerful Elites and heavy support units. That job is done better by Heavy Intercessors if they're cheap enough. If they're too expensive, that's done by Intercessors.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this about the Aggressors. Their gorilla arms and exposed ammo/fuel lines, with no way no way for the marine to service his own gear... Combined makes Aggressors one of the ugliest and weakest models of the Primaris range.

 

It does feel like the three new Gravis units (Heavy Intercessors, Eradicators, and the HBR Captain) have taken on a much more reasonable and classic space marine approach.

 

Where as the previous three Gravis units (Aggressors, Inceptors, and the DI Gravis Captain) had a much more deviant and radical aesthetic. Something inspired by a combination of GI Joe, Starcraft, and the meaty power armors of modern video games.

 

One other thing that also definitely detracts from the Aggressors is their model kits/poses. They literally have the worst kit. It's not a "posable" MPK so you can't play with their poses. And they have the most cookie cutter static poses possible. Usually GW goes with more dynamic poses at least when taking away options. Not the case here, very boring and uninspired. I remember being VERY disappointed when I first popped open the kit and began assembling them for the first time.

 

As for the Heavy vs normal Intercessors. I think you'll find that people are still going to want the regular ones more. Extra inch of movement, hammers and Fists for sarge, and able to board Impulsors. Heavies are awesome, but the new classics still got life in them. It's not so cut and dry. For sure Stalkercessors are off the table tho. Unless the sniper strat for them goes down in CP.

[Captain Idaho]

Well, talking in a competitive sense, which is a caveat I perhaps should have added. As such, it's not necessarily an issue for many players, I admit.

 

However, I really am not convinced there is much of a point to Intercessors in Impulsors when the Bladeguard and Assault Intercessors will be inside, going for a turn 2 charge.

 

I'm struggling to see a role for Intercessors if the Heavy versions are pointed cheap enough to be included. All the other Troops choices will outperform them in various roles as I mentioned.

 

Of course, so players don't like First Born and that's cool. I'm making a presumption on roles, but it's actually notable how many players don't like mixing.

 

I'm also making a Presumption on the cost of Heavy Intercessors. 28-30pts might work as worthwhile, though I can imagine them clocking in at 26-27pts because their firepower isn't that great for their cost really.

[Riddlesworth]

I'm also making a Presumption on the cost of Heavy Intercessors. 28-30pts might work as worthwhile, though I can imagine them clocking in at 26-27pts because their firepower isn't that great for their cost really.

This is the big one for me. All the gravis units are priced at 40ppm with free wrapon or pay extra gortra for fragstorm and plasma.

 

Part of that cost is the special rule (shoot twice, fly and mortal wound) which beavy intercessors dont have. The problem is 5 man squads. At 150 for 5 they are palatable. At 200, much less so.

[Blindhamster]

IMO, I'd take intercessors with grenade launchers as my versatile troop choice over tacticals, sure tacticals get a special weapon/heavy weapon, but the revised grenade launcher and the ability to take two in a squad means intercessors actually got a pretty nice shooting boost there, whilst still being significantly better in a fight than tacticals (which is important to blood angel players like me). Intercessors also have some unique strats that we don't know will be available to heavies yet. Assault intercessors are okay and the extra attack they get from their chainswords is nice, but often the regular ones are still better for the abilitiy to shoot more consistently on the way in.

[Captain Idaho]

Tactical Marines can functionally have 2 specials at 5 man thanks to the Combi weapon access on a Sergeant and at 10 men can have 3 upgraded weapons. They can also add a Heavy weapon at 5 men and combine that with a Combi-plasma on the Sergeant, for quite substantial firepower in our Troops section.

 

This is head and shoulders above a single Grenade Launcher per 5 models.

 

I accept theme and model size, folk may not want to add in Tactical Marines to their all Primaris force (I really don't like mixing them either) but as a fire support unit, Intercessors do not perform better than Tactical Marines when both have 2 wounds a model.

 

As I've said, there is a place for each Troops choice in Marines lists right now, but with Heavy Intercessors added to the mix, their direct comparison is Intercessors in role. Everything else is quite specialised or much cheaper for the weapons. The points costs are crucial but I don't think Heavy Intercessors can be worth their points without invalidating Intercessors.

 

I don't think Hellblasters are in a good place either now.