New Space marine Codex and DA

[G8Keeper]

Word in the street, you guys will have a good codex.

Not sure about new models.

Please direct us to said street. Pretty please?

[plasmaspam]

 

Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

 

Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.

 

• You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
• That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
• That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
• That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
• You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.

 

Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!

 

And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.

Except for the damned rule of sodding three.

[Berzul]

 

 

Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.

 

• You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
• That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
• That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
• That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
• You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.

 

Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!

 

And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.

Except for the damned rule of sodding three.

 

3 Deathwing Terminator Squads

3 Deathwing Knight Squads

1 Deathwing Command Squad

1 Deathwing Champion

1 Deathwing Apothecary

1 Deathwing Ancient

 

That's 10 slots right there, with up to 68 terminators in total, at maximum capacity of each squad.

 

Add 3 Venerable Dreadnoughts, in another Detachment? You can get up to 13 elite choices.... Make it even more, if you add other types of Dreadnoughts.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Berzul

[WrathOfTheLion]

We can conclude relic terminators, assault terminators and normal terminators from the base codex might get inner circle & all as well. But that will be in a few months.

 

If you're willing to take more limited options, would allow for even more terminators.

Edited October 16, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion

[Berzul]

We can conclude relic terminators, assault terminators and normal terminators from the base codex might get inner circle & all as well. But that will be in a few months.

 

If you're willing to take more limited options, would allow for even more terminators.

 

Absolutely right. I am so used to just regular terminators, that I completely left out these other variants that are now, technically, allowed to us by the Codex: Space Marines.

[WrathOfTheLion]

I could see using teleport homers with the more limited options being useful at times as well. They're there if we need them, could end up good for certain tasks.

[Archaeinox]

Sorry how does Belial give +3 CP? Are you saying spend the 3CP? Because the damn vanguards wont refund it right

Edited October 17, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Berzul]

Sorry how does Belial give +3 CP? Are you saying spend the 3CP? Because the damn vanguards wont refund it right

Yeah. He increases CP Cost by 3.

[Grand Master Raziel]

I know it's a little obnoxious that Scouts have been moved to the Elite slot, but does anyone else think they still might have some play? One use for them could be a cheap unit to perform Actions to help rake up the Secondary points. I know a Tac Squad could do that as well for not many more points, but Scouts can be put virtually anywhere on the table during deployment, so you can start them off right where you want them.

 

Another idea I had was for a sniper-tastic list, based around Eliminators, Stalker-Intercessors (Stalker-cessors?), and sniper Scouts. Opponents are apt to shoot at the Intercessors to clear them off objectives and the Eliminators cause Eliminators, leaving the sniper Scouts to plink away unmolested. With our Chapter Tactic, they'll be hitting on 2's and generating mortals on 5's. Seems like they could do some work.

[MeatGrinder]

I know it's a little obnoxious that Scouts have been moved to the Elite slot, but does anyone else think they still might have some play? One use for them could be a cheap unit to perform Actions to help rake up the Secondary points. I know a Tac Squad could do that as well for not many more points, but Scouts can be put virtually anywhere on the table during deployment, so you can start them off right where you want them.

 

Another idea I had was for a sniper-tastic list, based around Eliminators, Stalker-Intercessors (Stalker-cessors?), and sniper Scouts. Opponents are apt to shoot at the Intercessors to clear them off objectives and the Eliminators cause Eliminators, leaving the sniper Scouts to plink away unmolested. With our Chapter Tactic, they'll be hitting on 2's and generating mortals on 5's. Seems like they could do some work.

Its unmodified 6s.

I dont see the use for them over units like infiltrators, who will also screen out the board, and are tougher to kill. For a sniper unit snipercessors are better, as theyll be rocking ap-3 in devastator. I think the humble scout will be only be infiltrating peoples shelves for a while.

[bigtrouble]

I could see using teleport homers with the more limited options being useful at times as well. They're there if we need them, could end up good for certain tasks.

So as of right now, we basically have a choice between staying (Inner Circle) or running away (Teleport Homer). Hmm...

[Master Sheol]

 

I could see using teleport homers with the more limited options being useful at times as well. They're there if we need them, could end up good for certain tasks.

So as of right now, we basically have a choice between staying (Inner Circle) or running away (Teleport Homer). Hmm...

 

If the supplement will extend the IC rule to all units with DW keyword regular terminators will be a contender to DW terminators

The first ones will have less flexibility in wargear options and no Watcher but access to teleport homers

The second ones will have flexibility and the Watchers but no teleport homer

 

I know that a squad of assault terminators qith teleport homers can be attractive over a DW squad with melee weapons but there is some things to consider for DA

First DA have access to DWK too that are totally brutal in melee cause they have a better weapon and WS2+

Second the DWT squad lose access to teleport homer but they get the option to equip one terminator each five models with a CML on top of the melee weapons

Third considering shooting terminators you have access to Plasma Cannons and you can throw in a some THSS for better survavibility of the squad

 

It will be a though choice between vanilla terminators and DWT squads

[Jings]

 

 

Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

 

Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.

 

• You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
• That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
• That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
• That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
• You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.

Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!

 

And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.

Except for the damned rule of sodding three.

Relic Termies tho, provided GW FAQ the damn inner circle / deathwing debacle.

[Master Sheol]

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity - I haven't really played in 8th edition and have decided to dip my toes back in with Dark Angels. Is there any way to reliably play a deathwing army proper, i.e. an army with as little Power Armour as possible? Or is that a relic of 7th edition and prior? Any fraters willing to give me a pointer or two?

Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.

 

• You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
• That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
• That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
• That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
• You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.

Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!

 

And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.

Except for the damned rule of sodding three.

Relic Termies tho, provided GW FAQ the damn inner circle / deathwing debacle.

 

In reality they dont need to FAQ that

they will simply put a line in the supplement like that

"If a unit has the DEATHWING keyword it also gains the Inner Circle rule"

and

"If a unit has the RAVENWING keyword it also gains the Jink rule"

And until that supplement they will leave DA go on with units half with special rule and half without cause clearly the indexes are temporary placeholders and GW dont care about their consistency

 

The only thing is how to give the DEATHWING keyword to those units that should or could have it now that the startagems upgrading units (like Captain to Chapter Master upgrade) are gone

We know that in he past it was possible to upgrade LR and VenDread to DW paying points (in some iterations of the DA codex the VenDread was automatically DW while battle and reserve comapnies had access only to standard dread) and tat up to 7th edition codex all company masters were automatically DW and that was changed (in a stupid way i would say cause ALL company masters are also members of the DW) so you had to spend CP to upgrade your Masters, LR and dreads to DW

Edited October 17, 2020 by Master Sheol

[WrathOfTheLion]

They could do some fun stuff with hunting the fallen in the Crusade system, that to me seems like the most appropriate place to put it.

[Lion El Jason]

 

Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.

 

• You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
• That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
• That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
• That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
• You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.

 

Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!

 

And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.

 

 

Actually, I'm thinking Spearhead Detatchment.

2 Elites gives 2 squads of Terminators or Knights.

Add a Command Squad and the Command Characters for no slot (Sadly requires Belial but he's OK, just not great in a DW army)

Then add 3 Land Raiders of whatever type (Right now I think Prometheus is good so 2x Prometheus and a Crusader is looking optimal to me)

Finish with an interrogator chaplain in terminator armour who has great uprades over a vanilla chappy for the points and this is a decent Deathwing list.

 

The THP from Inner Circle really brings us up to par with the top space marine options even though our Chapter Tactic is easily the worst of the big 4 (Not moving in 9th is losing) and even inner circle comes with a downside.

 

I think the Pennant of Remembrance is going to do real work and the upgrade to get WL Trait for Obsec makes the Terminator Ancient auto include.

I'm actually considering the DW Champion, upgraded to chapter champion and with Key of Achrabael.  7 Attacks on the charge, Str 8, 2 Damage, no save (Assuming assault doctrine) and +3 Attacks on a large unit (Don't shoot a unit to keep it full strength for him :) ) he will kill a full unit of 2W space marines easily enough and he has re-rolls available, depending what you bring.  Also may be one of the few champions who's anti character rules may work because he has the stats to kill them and not die to their attacks.

 

I'm playing around with points for an exact list, multiple watchers have convinced me to leave my librarians at home and go interrogator chaplain for the crusader counter punch package.  Warlord trait for ObSec to start with but I'll wean myself off it if I can make it work without.

 

As much as anything I am actually looking forward to getting shot as I think Knights with T5 (Strat), 1+, 4++, 5+++, 3W and an apothecary will demoralise my opponent enough to win because he's basically given up.  Its like Weaken Resolve IRL!

 

Yep, Deathwing are in their best place since 6th edition and I can't wait to be let outside again.

[Brother Quinn]

Perhaps a silly question, as I don't have the new codex yet, but are we able to take the Chief Librarian command upgrade on a primaris?  

Edited October 22, 2020 by Brother Quinn

[MeatGrinder]

 

 

Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.

 

• You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
• That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
• That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
• That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
• You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.

 

Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!

 

And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.

 

 

Actually, I'm thinking Spearhead Detatchment.

2 Elites gives 2 squads of Terminators or Knights.

Add a Command Squad and the Command Characters for no slot (Sadly requires Belial but he's OK, just not great in a DW army)

Then add 3 Land Raiders of whatever type (Right now I think Prometheus is good so 2x Prometheus and a Crusader is looking optimal to me)

Finish with an interrogator chaplain in terminator armour who has great uprades over a vanilla chappy for the points and this is a decent Deathwing list.

 

The THP from Inner Circle really brings us up to par with the top space marine options even though our Chapter Tactic is easily the worst of the big 4 (Not moving in 9th is losing) and even inner circle comes with a downside.

 

I think the Pennant of Remembrance is going to do real work and the upgrade to get WL Trait for Obsec makes the Terminator Ancient auto include.

I'm actually considering the DW Champion, upgraded to chapter champion and with Key of Achrabael.  7 Attacks on the charge, Str 8, 2 Damage, no save (Assuming assault doctrine) and +3 Attacks on a large unit (Don't shoot a unit to keep it full strength for him ) he will kill a full unit of 2W space marines easily enough and he has re-rolls available, depending what you bring.  Also may be one of the few champions who's anti character rules may work because he has the stats to kill them and not die to their attacks.

 

I'm playing around with points for an exact list, multiple watchers have convinced me to leave my librarians at home and go interrogator chaplain for the crusader counter punch package.  Warlord trait for ObSec to start with but I'll wean myself off it if I can make it work without.

 

As much as anything I am actually looking forward to getting shot as I think Knights with T5 (Strat), 1+, 4++, 5+++, 3W and an apothecary will demoralise my opponent enough to win because he's basically given up.  Its like Weaken Resolve IRL!

 

Yep, Deathwing are in their best place since 6th edition and I can't wait to be let outside again.

 

 

I like the idea of the raider rush returning, although with all the antitank floating around I doubt its our best course, its worth a try but possibly 800pts better spent on more bodies. After all eiminators are in every marine list

Also you dont need belial for a DWCS, you can just take a captain in TDA.

Im thinking either two big blobs, or one big blob of knights and several small terminator units. The big blob will be the hammer with ancient support, either slogging or DS. Then a scattering of 5man squads can run around and sit on objectives, slapping anyone nearby with bolter and CML fire. The apoth can then play ambulance and DS wherever I need to revive models. Same with an Obsec trait captain who can pop down where he needs to to let units steal or contest objectives.

If contemptors are still the hotness when the index drops I'll throw in a mortis or two with twin las for ranged support. I have a leviathan collecting dust that I really want to take, but the relic rule sucks when youre tight on points.

[jaxom]

Perhaps a silly question, as I don't have the new codex yet, but are we able to take the Chief Librarian command upgrade on a primaris?

Yes. The chapter command upgrades work on the role keywords. Off the top of my head the only role that doesn’t have a unit which also has the Primaris keyword is COMPANY CHAMPION.

[Lion El Jason]

 

 

 

Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.

 

• You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
• That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
• That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
• That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
• You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.

 

Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!

 

And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.

 

 

Actually, I'm thinking Spearhead Detatchment.

2 Elites gives 2 squads of Terminators or Knights.

Add a Command Squad and the Command Characters for no slot (Sadly requires Belial but he's OK, just not great in a DW army)

Then add 3 Land Raiders of whatever type (Right now I think Prometheus is good so 2x Prometheus and a Crusader is looking optimal to me)

Finish with an interrogator chaplain in terminator armour who has great uprades over a vanilla chappy for the points and this is a decent Deathwing list.

 

The THP from Inner Circle really brings us up to par with the top space marine options even though our Chapter Tactic is easily the worst of the big 4 (Not moving in 9th is losing) and even inner circle comes with a downside.

 

I think the Pennant of Remembrance is going to do real work and the upgrade to get WL Trait for Obsec makes the Terminator Ancient auto include.

I'm actually considering the DW Champion, upgraded to chapter champion and with Key of Achrabael.  7 Attacks on the charge, Str 8, 2 Damage, no save (Assuming assault doctrine) and +3 Attacks on a large unit (Don't shoot a unit to keep it full strength for him ) he will kill a full unit of 2W space marines easily enough and he has re-rolls available, depending what you bring.  Also may be one of the few champions who's anti character rules may work because he has the stats to kill them and not die to their attacks.

 

I'm playing around with points for an exact list, multiple watchers have convinced me to leave my librarians at home and go interrogator chaplain for the crusader counter punch package.  Warlord trait for ObSec to start with but I'll wean myself off it if I can make it work without.

 

As much as anything I am actually looking forward to getting shot as I think Knights with T5 (Strat), 1+, 4++, 5+++, 3W and an apothecary will demoralise my opponent enough to win because he's basically given up.  Its like Weaken Resolve IRL!

 

Yep, Deathwing are in their best place since 6th edition and I can't wait to be let outside again.

 

 

I like the idea of the raider rush returning, although with all the antitank floating around I doubt its our best course, its worth a try but possibly 800pts better spent on more bodies. After all eiminators are in every marine list

Also you dont need belial for a DWCS, you can just take a captain in TDA.

Im thinking either two big blobs, or one big blob of knights and several small terminator units. The big blob will be the hammer with ancient support, either slogging or DS. Then a scattering of 5man squads can run around and sit on objectives, slapping anyone nearby with bolter and CML fire. The apoth can then play ambulance and DS wherever I need to revive models. Same with an Obsec trait captain who can pop down where he needs to to let units steal or contest objectives.

If contemptors are still the hotness when the index drops I'll throw in a mortis or two with twin las for ranged support. I have a leviathan collecting dust that I really want to take, but the relic rule sucks when youre tight on points.

 

 

You can take a captain in TDA but until something changes, permanent transhuman is great.  And Belial isnt terrible.

 

Eliminators vs 4 Quad Heavy Bolters?

 

I have to say, this is probably the first time I'd consider walking terminators as better than riding, but I'm still not convinced.  Especially since Land Raiders are so much worse than 7th.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Lion El Jason

[Master Sheol]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, if there ever WAS a good time to play Deathwing since the beginning of 8th edition, it is now, I think.

 

• You take Belial as the Master of the Deathwing in a Vanguard Detachment for +3 CP.
• That immediately frees up the slot for your first DW squad. You just pay 10 extra points for it, and you upgrade your first 5 guys into a Command Squad, which doesn't take a Slot as long as Belial leads your force.
• That means you can now add the DW Champion, the DW Apothecary, and the DW Ancient, all of the without using slots, since they don't take one when the Command Squad is present.
• That means you can add a max of 10 elite choices in one Vanguard Detachment, for just 3CP. Meaning you make a full DW Force, and still be left with a LOT of CP to spend.
• You can give your DW Ancient the upgrade into a Chapter Ancient, and give him the Trait that makes him Objective Secured. Or even take a regular Deathwing Master instead of Belial, and give THAT guy ALSO the regular warlord trait that makes him objective secured. Meaning you have up to two 6" auras of objective secured terminators.

Then? Just fill up with as many terminators and landraiders as you can!

 

And you will have an army that is all 3W a model, that (save for the Ancient or the Generic Master in TDA) can only be wounded on a 4+. Which makes them seriously tough on the board.

Actually, I'm thinking Spearhead Detatchment.

2 Elites gives 2 squads of Terminators or Knights.

Add a Command Squad and the Command Characters for no slot (Sadly requires Belial but he's OK, just not great in a DW army)

Then add 3 Land Raiders of whatever type (Right now I think Prometheus is good so 2x Prometheus and a Crusader is looking optimal to me)

Finish with an interrogator chaplain in terminator armour who has great uprades over a vanilla chappy for the points and this is a decent Deathwing list.

 

The THP from Inner Circle really brings us up to par with the top space marine options even though our Chapter Tactic is easily the worst of the big 4 (Not moving in 9th is losing) and even inner circle comes with a downside.

 

I think the Pennant of Remembrance is going to do real work and the upgrade to get WL Trait for Obsec makes the Terminator Ancient auto include.

I'm actually considering the DW Champion, upgraded to chapter champion and with Key of Achrabael. 7 Attacks on the charge, Str 8, 2 Damage, no save (Assuming assault doctrine) and +3 Attacks on a large unit (Don't shoot a unit to keep it full strength for him ) he will kill a full unit of 2W space marines easily enough and he has re-rolls available, depending what you bring. Also may be one of the few champions who's anti character rules may work because he has the stats to kill them and not die to their attacks.

 

I'm playing around with points for an exact list, multiple watchers have convinced me to leave my librarians at home and go interrogator chaplain for the crusader counter punch package. Warlord trait for ObSec to start with but I'll wean myself off it if I can make it work without.

 

As much as anything I am actually looking forward to getting shot as I think Knights with T5 (Strat), 1+, 4++, 5+++, 3W and an apothecary will demoralise my opponent enough to win because he's basically given up. Its like Weaken Resolve IRL!

 

Yep, Deathwing are in their best place since 6th edition and I can't wait to be let outside again.

I like the idea of the raider rush returning, although with all the antitank floating around I doubt its our best course, its worth a try but possibly 800pts better spent on more bodies. After all eiminators are in every marine list

Also you dont need belial for a DWCS, you can just take a captain in TDA.

Im thinking either two big blobs, or one big blob of knights and several small terminator units. The big blob will be the hammer with ancient support, either slogging or DS. Then a scattering of 5man squads can run around and sit on objectives, slapping anyone nearby with bolter and CML fire. The apoth can then play ambulance and DS wherever I need to revive models. Same with an Obsec trait captain who can pop down where he needs to to let units steal or contest objectives.

If contemptors are still the hotness when the index drops I'll throw in a mortis or two with twin las for ranged support. I have a leviathan collecting dust that I really want to take, but the relic rule sucks when youre tight on points.

You can take a captain in TDA but until something changes, permanent transhuman is great. And Belial isnt terrible.

 

Eliminators vs 4 Quad Heavy Bolters?

 

I have to say, this is probably the first time I'd consider walking terminators as better than riding, but I'm still not convinced. Especially since Land Raiders are so much worse than 7th.

I agree

The only DW unit worth of a transport is the Bladeguard for the simple reason that they cannot teleport

When Bladeguard will have Inner Circle rule it could be a interesting unit for a DW only army

 

But while i like pure DW the most effective army still remains the RW+DW combo

But at the moment too many RW units are from C:SM so they lack JINK

[Lion El Jason]

Yeah, unrestricted is always best.  I'm not seeing RW this edition, certainly not with the current situation but tbh even if everything gets jink, its...  just not great.

I'll give it a try but I can't imagine it will be legitimately competitive as I imagine DW to be.

 

[Zustiur]

For a sniper unit snipercessors are better, as theyll be rocking ap-3 in devastator. I think the humble scout will be only be infiltrating peoples shelves for a while.

Are you referring to the stalker bolt rifle stratagem which no longer exists?

[JeffJedi]

Will be get the Stormhawk Interceptor or Storm Talon?

[WrathOfTheLion]

I believe so, the only restrictions in the base codex are that we cannot have Vanguard or Sternguard veteran squads.

 

Might wait at least until the SW book comes out though, by then we will know if they do anything strange in the Supplements as far as that goes.

Edited October 23, 2020 by WrathOfTheLion