Wishlist for a supplement

[Bjorn Firewalker]

 

 

Vows I say! Doctrines are for codex followers!

But the SW have them too. So why not both^^ (they have Sagas and Doctrines)

Honestly I haven't checked the SW stuff.

How does it work?

Sagas are or were bonuses to individual Characters, affecting that Character ONLY. In 5th Edition, Ragnar had the "Saga of the Warrior Born," which granted him +1 Attack for every enemy he killed in-game; the Saga was downgraded in 6th Edition, for how game-breaking it was.

 

I'm sure the Templars will appreciate a similar Special Rule. Say grant an Invulnerable Save or add +1 Toughness, for each enemy psyker killed in battle, to a maximum of 3+ Invulnerable Save or Toughness 7 so it won't be too game-breaking?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I think he meant in 9th edition...?

[Medjugorje]

The Sagas are integrated into the rules as WL-Trait. If the Character fulfill the task the Bonus isnt just for him, its become an aura abilitie.

The most important difference about the SW is that they are not a codex compied chapter, shown with much units which didnt exist in other chapters.

And their way to warrior legends told as stories to motivate others to do so... the sagas I explained already.

 

The main thing by Blood angles is their Red thirst and Black rage and their way to handle it while being a kind chapter. Shown in their special units and death company.

 

The main thing from the Dark Angels used to be the hunt for the fallen, their first Terminator company and their ravenwing company.

Shown in the supplement that you can play them without loosing CPs for different detachments their supremecy for both special companies.

 

 

The question is what we can expect then.

To be honest,.. The SW didnt get as much as they deserved while the Dark Angels get a MONSTER supplement.

- For the moment I dont know which characters can be improved by the Wolves and the Reivers are special by them ( anti psyker).

- The Blood Angels get a special Intercessor squad (death company) and Characters can become Death company by point costs.

- Dark Angels can become Inner Circle RW / DW Characters and they can have special BGV  ( not sure about it  )

 

 

 

we could get a special Intercessor unit (Crusader squads / mixed Intercessors) or special BGV ( Sword Brethren) or Intercessor Veterans (sword brethren). I hope its the normal Crusader squad or a special knight themed BGV guard,... Intercessors in ELITE slot are too bad.

 

I expect special Chaplains because this used to be our way to play since 4th edition and since 6th editon our lore.

But it could be a emperors champion with special vows too ( I hope both)

Edited February 2, 2021 by Medjugorje

[SirJyo]

The question is what we can expect then.

To be honest,.. The SW didnt get as much as they deserved while the Dark Angels get a MONSTER supplement.

( I hope both)

With risk of going off topic, DA got what they did 'cause Pete Foley is playing favorites as a DA player.

 

Let's hope he likes Templars too, or at least understands what they should be.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Well it did need a complete redo after its 8E ruleset, but it is a good case study to consider. Unlike SW/BA, it didn't actually come with a new kit at all, or even a new Primaris datasheet. Instead, it elected only to modify existing ones, yet is widely considered to have run away with all but the kitchen sink as far as flavor goes. So for DA, there is no normal BGV, they are all 'special'/altered.

So if Templars want special units like BGV, I think it makes more sense to fundamentally alter it some than to just copy the datasheet without much to it. Then, instead of just C:SM + some extra datasheets, it becomes a more fundamental permutation of some of what is in C:SM.

 

I do like the idea of some minor trait that can be picked as well. Some sort of Crusade fleet specialization. It's a bit small, but I think it would express more of the vastness of the various Crusades and how much they may diverge in purpose fighting different foes.

Edited February 3, 2021 by WrathOfTheLion

[Medjugorje]

 

The question is what we can expect then.

To be honest,.. The SW didnt get as much as they deserved while the Dark Angels get a MONSTER supplement.

( I hope both)

With risk of going off topic, DA got what they did 'cause Pete Foley is playing favorites as a DA player.

 

Let's hope he likes Templars too, or at least understands what they should be.

 

If you watch the rules since 7th edition then inside of GW there are many White Scars and Iron Hands Fans.

 

 

BT, Crimson Fists and the SW are on the bottom.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Punchomatic]

If GW has so many Templar fans why have our rules and model support been ass for a decade?

[Medjugorje]

i edited

[Marshal Reinhard]

If GW has so many Templar fans why have our rules and model support been ass for a decade?

 

Marines in general have had ass, or at least below average rules, for the majority of their existance. Marines make up what, more than half of GW's total revenue? (or at least did, pre explosion growth, not sure what it looks like these days... the point is, its always been a HUGE fraction at any rate). 

 

What I'm saying is, with the rules at least, being a large faction with fans does not mean you'll have much favor in the rules department. Never really has.

 

As for models... well, we can only hope that changes and we finally get something?

[Brother Kraskor]

 

If GW has so many Templar fans why have our rules and model support been ass for a decade?

 

Marines in general have had ass, or at least below average rules, for the majority of their existance. Marines make up what, more than half of GW's total revenue? (or at least did, pre explosion growth, not sure what it looks like these days... the point is, its always been a HUGE fraction at any rate). 

 

What I'm saying is, with the rules at least, being a large faction with fans does not mean you'll have much favor in the rules department. Never really has.

 

As for models... well, we can only hope that changes and we finally get something?

 

 

I'd keep that opinion within the confines of the Battle Barge, brother! Plenty of Xenos scum out there who've been hanging out for an update while we've been enjoying relative plenty...!

[Marshal Reinhard]

 

 

If GW has so many Templar fans why have our rules and model support been ass for a decade?

 

Marines in general have had ass, or at least below average rules, for the majority of their existance. Marines make up what, more than half of GW's total revenue? (or at least did, pre explosion growth, not sure what it looks like these days... the point is, its always been a HUGE fraction at any rate). 

 

What I'm saying is, with the rules at least, being a large faction with fans does not mean you'll have much favor in the rules department. Never really has.

 

As for models... well, we can only hope that changes and we finally get something?

 

 

I'd keep that opinion within the confines of the Battle Barge, brother! Plenty of Xenos scum out there who've been hanging out for an update while we've been enjoying relative plenty...!

 

 

I care not for the mewling of xenos, brother! While it may be true that some other armies out there are neglected, as far as I personally am concerned, they can all take a backseat if Black Templar specific models are on the table. Sadly, this does not seem to be case, as far as GW seem to be concerned, however... Let's pray to the emperor that the helbrecht rumor pans out (and then some!)

[Sete]

If GW has so many Templar fans why have our rules and model support been ass for a decade?

This is not gonna age well. :P

 

Let me take a screenshot for future reference. :D

Edited February 5, 2021 by Sete

[Brother Kraskor]

 

 

I'd keep that opinion within the confines of the Battle Barge, brother! Plenty of Xenos scum out there who've been hanging out for an update while we've been enjoying relative plenty...!

 

 

I care not for the mewling of xenos, brother! While it may be true that some other armies out there are neglected, as far as I personally am concerned, they can all take a backseat if Black Templar specific models are on the table. Sadly, this does not seem to be case, as far as GW seem to be concerned, however... Let's pray to the emperor that the helbrecht rumor pans out (and then some!)

 

 

Forgive me brother, I know not what came over me. Sympathy for the xenos?! It'll be the painglove for me.

[Medjugorje]

 

 

If GW has so many Templar fans why have our rules and model support been ass for a decade?

 

Marines in general have had ass, or at least below average rules, for the majority of their existance. Marines make up what, more than half of GW's total revenue? (or at least did, pre explosion growth, not sure what it looks like these days... the point is, its always been a HUGE fraction at any rate). 

 

What I'm saying is, with the rules at least, being a large faction with fans does not mean you'll have much favor in the rules department. Never really has.

 

As for models... well, we can only hope that changes and we finally get something?

 

 

I'd keep that opinion within the confines of the Battle Barge, brother! Plenty of Xenos scum out there who've been hanging out for an update while we've been enjoying relative plenty...!

 

Just because we are in the same codex as Ultramarines, White Scars and Iron Hands.... the most beloved chapters by GW.

 

We have to compare our army with other Space Marines... not Xenos Scum^^

Edited February 5, 2021 by Medjugorje

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Just because we are in the same codex as Ultramarines, White Scars and Iron Hands.... the most beloved chapters by GW.

 

We have to compare our army with other Space Marines... not Xenos Scum^^

Better be compared to one's brothers and cousins, than to be compared to foul, literally inhuman XENOS.

[CastellanDeMolay]

Seeing as how the Dark Angels got such a nice treatment, especially one that reflects the way they wage war in such a flavourful way, it got me thinking, how could new rules better reflect the Black Templars modus operandi? 

 

Black Tide: Large numbers of bodies running at the enemy to drown them in attacks. 

I think BT are well placed to fight this way currently. 15pt Crusaders already goes a long way towards helping with this, plus we have things like large units getting disproportionate benefit from buffs. If anything is likely to help with this, it's probably going to be some buff to Sword Brethren/Company Veterans to enable them to better protect the characters who supply the buffs that massed infantry need in order to be effective. I'm not sure what form a direct buff would take, so I'm going to throw this out there: Look Out Sir! on all Elite Infantry units, so that, for example, a character with a Jump Pack could have a unit of Vanguard Veterans offer the same kind of protection that they would get from Company Veterans or Blade Guard Veterans. (Would you consider Reivers viable if they could reactively Deepstrike and meatshield for your Warlord?)

 

Armoured Spearhead: Powerful transports delivering infantry safely into close quarters, combined with other fast moving elements to disable the enemy's ability to stymie your advance. 

As I understand it, the problem with this is that you'll get alpha struck off the board in short order (or not long after) if the opponent has any serious amount of anti-armour firepower, and consequently things like Land Raiders are a bad investment for the number of points they cost because you won't get much use out of them, and they make up a large portion of your overall army, so you lose a lot at once. How about a return of Blessed Hull, as some kind of rule [i'm unsure what I would make the source, like a stratagem, relic, formation, baseline, or whatever] which prevents your heavier tanks from being completely destroyed for at least the first couple of turns? This way you get across the board and disembark where you want to be, barring any roadblocks your opponent is able to put in your way, before losing the unit. Tactically it's still worthwhile for your opponent to take out a sizable portion of your army as early as possible, but since they wouldn't be completely ruining your battle plan they might be inclined to spread their firepower more evenly across your army, or try to disable other elements beforehand. It's a straight-up buff, but one that I think would make the game more interesting for both players. 

 

Steel Rain: Drop Pods and other methods of Deep Striking that deny the enemy a chance to manoeuvre or react before the engagement. 

I think we can all agree that enemy units shouldn't be able to hide in Engagement Range of a Drop Pod, which should be baseline for all marine chapters. Re-rolling charges already makes BT a reasonably strong Deepstrike army. Most of the complaints I hear are about mobility once units reach the battlefield, which is a real problem if your opponent can screen you out. For those situations, I propose a stratagem that would allow Drop Pods to ignore rules that prevent Deepstriking within a certain range of an enemy unit, beyond the baseline 9" restriction, with the drawback that the embarked unit may take some [Mortal?] Wounds as a result. In this way Drop Pods would become a useful means of establishing a beachhead, and getting units on the table who could then try to disable those Deepstrike denying Auras, preparing the way for the rest of the army to descend a little more safely and into more strategically advantageous positions. I'm also inclined to say that mounting your Warlord in a Drop Pod should allow the use of Orbital Bombardment without them needing to be on the table at the time. I think it would be really fluffy to use OB to create space on the battlefield to start landing troops. (and let's face it, the only thing it will get used for in normal play is to force parking lots to disperse)

Edited February 6, 2021 by CastellanDeMolay

[Medjugorje]

I think we are close to having rules that fit our army. There are just a few things which missing. 

- Rules that show that we are equal in close combat with other melee marines likr Blood Angels or Wolves

- Rules that makes us superior when our characters fighting against other characters ( aside from the Emperors champion, all Black Templars are Sigismunds sons)

- Rules that show how stubborn we are (fearless in close combat for example)

- Vows

- Rules that show how aggressive zealous we are. At the moment we are much more a Marine army with good movement abilities but nothing like "shoot twice" (kill them all used to be a rule in old books)

 

all in all we are less effective, while other Marines get that often so easy +1 to hit or +1 to wound 

DA get it if they are not moved/attacked

SW and BA get it in first round

Salamanders get it via stratagem and character

White Scars get it by character

[Punchomatic]

 

If GW has so many Templar fans why have our rules and model support been ass for a decade?

This is not gonna age well. :P

 

Let me take a screenshot for future reference. :D

I’ll gladly eat crow when we finally get proper rules!

[Marshal Reinhard]

Models>Rules. GW, plz gibz models, kthxbye.

[Sete]

Dunno about rules tho.

But we gonna be fine.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Sete

[Medjugorje]

Most important thing is to get new really good looking models but if the rules are not good then nobody plays the new models ( there are many people just play the best of the best )

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The rules don't matter as long as there are models, because GW will have already invested money into the models, and can change the rules easily to ensure the models sell.

 

What we don't want is just rules, as that means GW have no confidence the models would sell, so won't invest in models, which means nor incentive to continue with rules.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Really, what we want is both.

 

Any and all things we get thrown our way is a good thing. Any sign that GW has been spending money on us. Models, artwork, texts (we want our supplement to have new texts, not just stuff copied from our old 4th ed codex) and yes even rules, is good. Good rules will have a positive effect on sales in a virtuous cycle, so it's not like I don't want good rules.

 

The reason I however put the least focus on rules (besides the fact that I don't play much) is because rules are so easily changed from iteration to iteration. And they haven't been lasting long (like, did F&F even last a year?). The other things last much longer. Once the art is drawn, it's there forever. New text for the supplement, so we don't have to rely on hand me downs from the 4th edition codex. And most so is the models. Everyone should be wishing for new models. It's the prime sign that a faction is healthy. It means GW is spending money on us, and they have a commitment after they're done, because they need the line to do well. Even if you hate primaris, you should wish for GW to make new models for us, because it means BT is doing well as a faction. The alternative is being more and more forgotten and left behind. The last model we got was from 2005. We need new life blood.

 

So, getting back from that tangent, we want everything. But there's absolutely a priority order, and models should top everyone's list.

[SirJyo]

I think it's safe to say we will get at least 1 new model.

As said before if they spend money on a mold, they care about us. Hopefully they bring us up as part of the survey results.

 

Xenos players can moan again at the waves of SM releases, but they aren't the ones who have gone without a standalone book in 15 years!

[Punchomatic]

And that is why I’m excited about us getting a proper book. One model is good. An upgrade kit is good. But being recognized as a chapter that needs its own damn book is extremely nice. It’s something we badly need. Don’t forget it costs them to make books just like it costs to make molds.