Wishlist for a supplement

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’d rather they be doctrine or strats.

[Medjugorje]

A thought crossed my mind: vows could become secondary objectives in the future. We can only pick one codex secondary and scoring VP for it would encourage leaning into the vow during game play.

Thats a game mechanic which Space Wolves already have. I prefer something different for us alone.

I’d rather they be doctrine or strats.

 I hope so but I think it will become an aura for the Emperors champion.

 

I hope it would go in this direction:

 

A vow is like an upgrade for a Emperors champion like this:

 

Accept any challenge no matter the odds: your army get an additional Chapter tactic --> Prefered enemy ( on page 96 in Codex Space Marines)

Edited December 3, 2020 by Medjugorje

[JimVandy85]

 

 

I used accept any challenge back in 5th when it became rage. So much fun. I never used the other vows.

It was the 6th edition when it become Rage. I really hated that because at this time you most times hit on 4s - and so it was a debuff ( at the start of 6th edition many people thought it was a buff - but I calculated each match up and finally the result was clear: reroll to hit was better then 2 attacks in charge because you had the reroll in each circumstance). Back in the 5th edition I was the dominant BT player in my country and many people copied my list.

You're right. I misremembered. Lol.

[BitsHammer]

I'm not saying it's something GW will do, just something I won't be surprised if it happens.

[Urkh]

I would use Suffer Not the Unclean to Live when fighting against my friends Necrons in 5th. the -1 ini didn't hurt because they were I2 vs my I3, but the extra str helped me out immensely vs his lychguard/praetorians/HQ's. Otherwise, I was on AAC.

 

Vows are definitely something I would like to see happen, and it would be nice to see them be something we pick at the start of the game vs during list building so we can have more flexibility depending on who we are playing against. It should focus around the EC, as I believe the vow was tied to the EC in the 4th dex as well.

[Medjugorje]

I would use Suffer Not the Unclean to Live when fighting against my friends Necrons in 5th. the -1 ini didn't hurt because they were I2 vs my I3, but the extra str helped me out immensely vs his lychguard/praetorians/HQ's. Otherwise, I was on AAC.

 

 

this is correct as long as you know against which army you will play. But in my area we used to stay quiet about our lists - so that nobody could prepare against 

 

AND

 

I always see that from a tournament gaming aspect where you have to be good against everything so -1 Initiative was not an option because so much armies with I 4 were played. But yes, in my last 4th edtion game ( played it 1.5 years ago...) I picked suffer not the unclean too because I knew that I would play against Necrons.

 

(and it was a very funny game to play my Templars with the old ruleset)

 

 

 

Urkh, on 04 Dec 2020 - 12:55 AM, said:

Vows are definitely something I would like to see happen, and it would be nice to see them be something we pick at the start of the game vs during list building so we can have more flexibility depending on who we are playing against. It should focus around the EC, as I believe the vow was tied to the EC in the 4th dex as well.

 

 

Oh yes. Exactly what I think. And yes, It was tied with the EC. If you played more then 750 points then the EC was a Must take and you had to take one vow.

 

I know that accept was the most expensive with a cost of 50 points and suffer not the unclean was 35 points, the other two used to be chaper I think.

 

But I expect that 4 vows as new auras but I hope more as a armywide bonus.

Edited December 4, 2020 by Medjugorje

[Punchomatic]

I would like to see the EC get some badass auras. He should be more than a generic character assassin. Honestly he should be an auto include. I wouldn’t mind a rule saying we have to field an EC. Especially if there’s more flexibility on how to build him.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I would like to see the EC get some badass auras.

Give +1 Attack to all ally models within 6", to show how the Champion's presence inspired them? Or +1 Weapon Skill to any Squad he's attached to, to show how the Champion will devote time to training his battle-brothers to be Champions in turn? Maybe the moment the Champion and the Squad he's attached to, lose their last Wound, they may move up to their maximum Movement towards the nearest enemy model, and make one Attack- regardless whether they already moved or attacked during this turn- to show how they're determined to strike one last blow against the Emperor's enemies, before they die?

He should be more than a generic character assassin.

I agree.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I would like to see the EC get some badass auras. He should be more than a generic character assassin. Honestly he should be an auto include. I wouldn’t mind a rule saying we have to field an EC. Especially if there’s more flexibility on how to build him.

 

I actually disagree with this. We have tons of Auras...both Space Marines in general, but also the Helbrecht, Grimaldus and BT Chaplain bonuses are all legit.  I'd make him exactly what he is, a heat seaking character cruise missile.

[BitsHammer]

Honestly I agree with that. The EC is basically challenging the same spirit Sigismund showed during the Siege of Terra, and honestly it should feel like such. Basically I want an EC who can tank his way across the table until he reaches his target and then stand a good chance of taking that target down.

 

I mean who doesn't want to see their EC go toe-to-toe with Abbadon and stand a chance at winning?

[Medjugorje]

 

I would like to see the EC get some badass auras. He should be more than a generic character assassin. Honestly he should be an auto include. I wouldn’t mind a rule saying we have to field an EC. Especially if there’s more flexibility on how to build him.

 

I actually disagree with this. We have tons of Auras...both Space Marines in general, but also the Helbrecht, Grimaldus and BT Chaplain bonuses are all legit.  I'd make him exactly what he is, a heat seaking character cruise missile.

 

do you played the old codex? If not then you will never understand why we want our vows back. The Buff from the EC used to be one of the main character in our gameplay.

[Punchomatic]

If the EC is going to be a character assassin he should be a better one.

[BitsHammer]

 

 

I would like to see the EC get some badass auras. He should be more than a generic character assassin. Honestly he should be an auto include. I wouldn’t mind a rule saying we have to field an EC. Especially if there’s more flexibility on how to build him.

 

I actually disagree with this. We have tons of Auras...both Space Marines in general, but also the Helbrecht, Grimaldus and BT Chaplain bonuses are all legit.  I'd make him exactly what he is, a heat seaking character cruise missile.

 

do you played the old codex? If not then you will never understand why we want our vows back. The Buff from the EC used to be one of the main character in our gameplay.

 

The buff didn't work like an aura though, if anything it worked more like a chapter trait we paid for.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

If not a vow, I'd at the very least like to see some sort of buff, even a strat, where if he slays a character or monster he enhances everyone around him. Even if its as simple as granting table wide immunity to battleschock on a turn in which he slew an enemy character or monster, it would amp up the flavor and make him feel like more of a champion and less of a beatstick.

[BitsHammer]

If the EC is going to be a character assassin he should be a better one.

To summarize a quote from Baldermort talking about the Templars: a Blood Angel in the grips of the Black Rage would stand a fair chance of losing against any Black Templar Initiate in a 1:1 fight. By that logic an EC should be one of the most lethal things in the game. If he catches you in hand to hand, there should be a fair chance of taking nearly anyone out.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I don't mind him not having auras or being a force multiplier. But if he is going to have that job, I would prefer him not to take up a HQ slot. That's the problem with him right now, when HQ slots are at a premium, force multiplier HQs are more important than task-specific HQs.

He either needs to be an Elite, or, even better, slotless like he was in 3rd.

[Medjugorje]

 

If the EC is going to be a character assassin he should be a better one.

To summarize a quote from Baldermort talking about the Templars: a Blood Angel in the grips of the Black Rage would stand a fair chance of losing against any Black Templar Initiate in a 1:1 fight. By that logic an EC should be one of the most lethal things in the game. If he catches you in hand to hand, there should be a fair chance of taking nearly anyone out.

 

 

That is what I want to see in our Supplement. Doesnt matter how... !!!!!

Edited December 6, 2020 by Medjugorje

[Blindhamster]

 

 

If the EC is going to be a character assassin he should be a better one.

To summarize a quote from Baldermort talking about the Templars: a Blood Angel in the grips of the Black Rage would stand a fair chance of losing against any Black Templar Initiate in a 1:1 fight. By that logic an EC should be one of the most lethal things in the game. If he catches you in hand to hand, there should be a fair chance of taking nearly anyone out.

 

 

That is what I want to see in our Supplement. Doesnt matter how... !!!!!

 

EC being amazing - yes I get. But, frankly, if a BT initiate stands a fair chance of beating a DC marine in 1:1 fight, it feels pretty meh. Guess we'll see though.

 

Always going to be the issue with BT though, GW have a very fine line to walk with them to not invalidate the other close combat chapters.

 

I do hope vows return, tbh I could see the secondary objective thing being a thing, but I also agree that it would be nice to see something "more".

 

I imagine BT unique units will be amazing - crusader squads are already one of the best, if not the best marine troop choice and I imagine they'll only get better.

[Medjugorje]

better then Intercessors? No, Better then Assault Intercessors NO,.... Incursors and Infiltrators? NO.

 

Sorry. Just Tacticals are bad in comparison^^

 

and yes of course a DC should be stronger then a normal marine but there should be ways to show how even they can handle a DC squad if they charge them.They should have an equal output as their aquivalent to other chapters:

 

A blood angel intercessor should be equal to ours,... not far better.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Medjugorje

[BitsHammer]

 

 

 

If the EC is going to be a character assassin he should be a better one.

To summarize a quote from Baldermort talking about the Templars: a Blood Angel in the grips of the Black Rage would stand a fair chance of losing against any Black Templar Initiate in a 1:1 fight. By that logic an EC should be one of the most lethal things in the game. If he catches you in hand to hand, there should be a fair chance of taking nearly anyone out.

 

 

That is what I want to see in our Supplement. Doesnt matter how... !!!!!

 

EC being amazing - yes I get. But, frankly, if a BT initiate stands a fair chance of beating a DC marine in 1:1 fight, it feels pretty meh. Guess we'll see though.

 

Always going to be the issue with BT though, GW have a very fine line to walk with them to not invalidate the other close combat chapters.

 

I do hope vows return, tbh I could see the secondary objective thing being a thing, but I also agree that it would be nice to see something "more".

 

I imagine BT unique units will be amazing - crusader squads are already one of the best, if not the best marine troop choice and I imagine they'll only get better.

 

BT are masters of sword combat, getting a parry rule, or something like Seth's "6s to save generate a melee attack" rule would be a nice way to show it without breaking the game.

[Medjugorje]

we could have always being treated as in hard cover... we are Knights - could be an additional rule with autowounds on 6s which would be okay if its not limited.

[9x19 Parabellum]

@Medjugorje no I did not play in 4th edition. I didn't even play in 5th edition. I barely played in 6th edition. I'm fairly new to 40k in general (end of 6th edition) and brand-spanking new to BT. (Started them in August).  So yes, I'm aware my opinion basically counts for crap.  I think the vow stuff is cool, I'm just not sure it needs to be implemented as an Aura.  I want less reason to keep my Marines clustered around a leader, not more. 

 

I don't mind him not having auras or being a force multiplier. But if he is going to have that job, I would prefer him not to take up a HQ slot. That's the problem with him right now, when HQ slots are at a premium, force multiplier HQs are more important than task-specific HQs.
He either needs to be an Elite, or, even better, slotless like he was in 3rd.

 

Yes I would agree with this. Elite or Slotless.  Company Champions are Elites after all, and he is basically an amped up version of that role.

 

 

 

To summarize a quote from Baldermort talking about the Templars: a Blood Angel in the grips of the Black Rage would stand a fair chance of losing against any Black Templar Initiate in a 1:1 fight. By that logic an EC should be one of the most lethal things in the game. If he catches you in hand to hand, there should be a fair chance of taking nearly anyone out.

 

 

A BA "in the grips of the black rage" is effectively Death Company.  Are we talking in-game or in-fluff?  And what does this comparison have to do with EC?  Should the EC not be more of a "best in class" kind of comparison?  Surely we don't think an EC should have a fair chance of taking down a Primarch; Greater Daemon; Chapter Master; Daemon Prince, named vehicle characters (Longstrike, Chronus).  I mean do you/we really belive he should be able to take down ANY character, or is it more he should hit above his weight class of 90ish points?

Edited December 6, 2020 by 9x19 Parabellum

[Medjugorje]

 

@Medjugorje no I did not play in 4th edition. I didn't even play in 5th edition. I barely played in 6th edition. I'm fairly new to 40k in general (end of 6th edition) and brand-spanking new to BT. (Started them in August).  So yes, I'm aware my opinion basically counts for crap.  I think the vow stuff is cool, I'm just not sure it needs to be implemented as an Aura.  I want less reason to keep my Marines clustered around a leader, not more. 

 

 

 

Maybe it was my mistake... I never wanted to give you a bad feeling about this. Its absolutly okay if you started later on... and you are surely welcome here brother. 

 

And yes... I would not pefer an aura too... in the old days it was just basicly an additional chapter tactic. And this would be my biggest hope. If not then it depends on which form it would come... I dont want a super rule as aura which i loose when I play aggressive with the emperors champion. Even back in the days if the EC died the rules stay for the army.

 

 

But the Emperors champion should kill any combatant - especially a deamon prince or a chapter master. If he cant kill a Primarch .... thats okay but each chapter master anyway.

Dont forget the 90 points are just a try to kill a character while each character could do the same... while giving extremly important buffing rules.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Medjugorje

[BitsHammer]

The EC not being able to fight a Primarch and win is fine. That said they should still feel threatening to a Primarch level characters, even if they can't actually kill said character. Anything below a Primarch should be fair game, even if it means he needs a points bump.

 

And the DC comment would be based on the lore. Rules are currently lacking on that front a bit.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Surely we don't think an EC should have a fair chance of taking down a Primarch; Greater Daemon; Chapter Master; Daemon Prince, named vehicle characters (Longstrike, Chronus). I mean do you/we really belive he should be able to take down ANY character, or is it more he should hit above his weight class of 90ish points?

Yep. It may have to cost more. But he should be an absolute weapon.