Wishlist for a supplement

[Medjugorje]

I think not that he should cost more then... At the moment he is just bad although he can kill characters very good. But I think I would play him competitive just by less then 45 points. I mean 50 points more for a buff to get a captain would always be the option. So to play him he should cost what he does now but for a low tax (like in the 4th editon codex) for 20 to 50 points we get a major buff.

Armywide...

 

or just for 5-15 points as aura

Edited December 6, 2020 by Medjugorje

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

Maybe it was my mistake... I never wanted to give you a bad feeling about this. Its absolutly okay if you started later on... and you are surely welcome here brother. 

 

Nay.  The offense was mine. Forgive me a moment's choler, brother.

[Banjulhu]

I think vows would work well as non-charatcer unit upgrades similar to the kil-team specialisations that the Deathwatch get. Each could only be bought once per detachment and only one per unit.

Abhor the Witch. Destroy the Witch: A unit gets +1 to hit and wound against units with the psyker keyword.

Suffer Not the Unclean to Live: +1 A and +1 S when charging or being charged by the Chaos keyword.

Uphold the Honour of the Emperor:  +1 to Invulnerable save rolls (or a 6++ if the unit does not have a invulnerable save naturally)

 

For fun the Emperors Champion unique shtick could be to select 1 at the start of the battle to benefit from personally for free.

[Charlo]

Okay but what about if Vows were in place instead of Doctrines? Similar to how the Grey Knights still get Shock Assault/ Bolter Discipline etc but have the Aetheric Tides.

 

Suffice to say the Templars aren't going around fighting in a 3 step plan like the other codex chapters - they're probably going in hard and never stopping.

 

Though, I can't see that happening with the Chapter Tactic being in the main codex..!

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The tactic is, but it has nothing to do with doctrines, so it's not impossible to conceive of a Black Templars Detachment rule which replaces doctrines, which would make fluff sense.

 

It's just extremely unlikely.

[Medjugorje]

The Chapter tactic and the Doctrines fit very well I think, especially the step from the doctrines into the next one.

But it could be an addiational chapter tactic OR one of four superdoctrines we could select, depending what Vow our EC were given. Or even an additional Superdoctrine

[Shamansky]

 

 

 

why?

 

I prefer the EC and Grim because both dont have good rules at the moment but I would love each of them

 

 

Because i already have a Chaplain on bike dumped to Legends

[Medjugorje]

what could be very interesting is the same mechanic the sisters already have.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Acts of faith and miracle dice would be ridiculous. Edited December 7, 2020 by Brother Adelard

[BitsHammer]

Acts of Faith and Miracle dice would probably be too much. But Vows working like Sacred Rites would be interesting.

[Medjugorje]

but it would be nice. Could be in the supplement in a light form

[Banjulhu]

I've thought a similar thing when I saw the most recent version of the sisters rule.

Ultimately I dont think it would be too powerful game balance wise and it would be a cool way to show the Templars being warriors of the faith (the days of them being atheists whilst also frequently shouting heretic are gone - thankfully) but it would also very likely invalidate the sisters own design space and its taken so many years to reduce the sisters being seen as diet marines they really dont need a marine chapter blurring the edges once more.

If I was going to push the Templar in a direction to get them some more identity separate from the rest of the marines but in a world where ultimately scouts and normal marines are being slowly phased out I would go down the crusade route and give them church linked units like frateris militia and imperial priests (who could pull double duty as sororitas units as well).

I think asking for a primaris crusader squad is pointless mostly because the crusader squad background is that its tutors and students working together and with the primaris there are no students, just pre-baked full marines (unless GW decide to swerve on the fluff and say marine chapters continue to train scouts as normal and upgrade them to primaris as they make them full battle brothers).

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I think asking for a primaris crusader squad is pointless mostly because the crusader squad background is that its tutors and students working together and with the primaris there are no students, just pre-baked full marines (unless GW decide to swerve on the fluff and say marine chapters continue to train scouts as normal and upgrade them to primaris as they make them full battle brothers).

 

Err, that is the fluff?

 

The first batch of Primaris were grown by Cawl while in suspended animation, but every Primaris marine since then was either an old marine who crossed the Rubicon, or, was a scout implanted with the primaris organs. This has been the case since the second 8th Ed codex.

[Banjulhu]

I thought the set up was that although the marines were given the tech to upgrade their old marines the main thing the chapters got was the knowledge and tech to make new primaris the same way Cawl did but on people of their choosing hence why we now have full prinaris marines in scout roles rather than scouts.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

No, they got the tech to make them from Neophytes.

 

There were problems with the vat grown marines. They weren't as flexible as normally trained marines, as they only knew everything from hypno-indoctrination. There were other issues too. It's worth reading Avenging Son and The Great Work for an insight into the hellish existence that being raised on Cawl's ship was.

 

The shift towards having the Vanguard as the scout company clears up a problem with the lore in that regard. I.e. that it was dumb to put your recruits in harm's way so much, and why would you limit your recruiting pool to only 100 when the attrition rate is so high?

Now the 10th company has 100 full marines, plus scouts.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I think vows would work well as non-charatcer unit upgrades similar to the kil-team specialisations that the Deathwatch get. Each could only be bought once per detachment and only one per unit.

 

Abhor the Witch. Destroy the Witch: A unit gets +1 to hit and wound against units with the psyker keyword.

Good idea, but the vow should also grant protection from psychic attacks- maybe +1 to rolls for Invulnerable Saves, granting a 6+ Invulnerable Save if a unit didn't have one before- or it'll be useless as the foul witch kills the Templars before the latter is close enough to attack.

Suffer Not the Unclean to Live: +1 A and +1 S when charging or being charged by the Chaos keyword.

Chaos Space Marines and cultists aren't the only enemy the Templars face. Allow the oath to grant the bonuses against ALL ENEMIES, to make it be more useful.

Uphold the Honour of the Emperor: +1 to Invulnerable save rolls (or a 6++ if the unit does not have a invulnerable save naturally)

Good idea.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Good idea, but the vow should also grant protection from psychic attacks- maybe +1 to rolls for Invulnerable Saves, granting a 6+ Invulnerable Save if a unit didn't have one before- or it'll be useless as the foul witch kills the Templars before the latter is close enough to attack.

 

Do you play the game much Bjorn? (Genuine question, not a dig.)

 

Invulnerable saves don't work against most, if not all, psychic attacks. And we already have a 5+ save against mortal wounds anyway? (Which, considering as we get to roll a die per wound, is better than a save would be.)

Edited December 7, 2020 by Brother Adelard

[Bjorn Firewalker]

 

Good idea, but the vow should also grant protection from psychic attacks- maybe +1 to rolls for Invulnerable Saves, granting a 6+ Invulnerable Save if a unit didn't have one before- or it'll be useless as the foul witch kills the Templars before the latter is close enough to attack.

 

Do you play the game much Bjorn? (Genuine question, not a dig.)

Admittedly, not recently. But I think the point of resisting psychic attacks still stands, considering Chaos worshipers often have Initiative bonuses that let them attack first.

[BitsHammer]

 

 

Good idea, but the vow should also grant protection from psychic attacks- maybe +1 to rolls for Invulnerable Saves, granting a 6+ Invulnerable Save if a unit didn't have one before- or it'll be useless as the foul witch kills the Templars before the latter is close enough to attack.

Do you play the game much Bjorn? (Genuine question, not a dig.)

Admittedly, not recently. But I think the point of resisting psychic attacks still stands, considering Chaos worshipers often have Initiative bonuses that let them attack first.

 

Damage from psychic attacks is, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, basically all mortal wounds, so having protection from that isn't bad. Our mortal wound protection actually negates more than just psychic powers (such as being too close to Mortarion, or vehicles exploding) so I wouldn't trade it.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

 

 

Good idea, but the vow should also grant protection from psychic attacks- maybe +1 to rolls for Invulnerable Saves, granting a 6+ Invulnerable Save if a unit didn't have one before- or it'll be useless as the foul witch kills the Templars before the latter is close enough to attack.

Do you play the game much Bjorn? (Genuine question, not a dig.)

Admittedly, not recently. But I think the point of resisting psychic attacks still stands, considering Chaos worshipers often have Initiative bonuses that let them attack first.

 

 

Initiative doesn't exist anymore. Fight and fight first mechanics are drastically different, and we have ways to play with those baked into our custom litanies now. We innately resist psychic attacks just by being black templar, though in theory a +1 to our mortal wounds resist would be good, or perhaps that unit gets 1 free deny the witch. BT are still lacking in psychic deny these days, especially for the anti-psycher melee faction. Need more ways to stop Da Jump and buff powers.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

We can buff the MW FNP using the cenobytes, it's not amazing, but it's something.

[Medjugorje]

 

 

 

Good idea, but the vow should also grant protection from psychic attacks- maybe +1 to rolls for Invulnerable Saves, granting a 6+ Invulnerable Save if a unit didn't have one before- or it'll be useless as the foul witch kills the Templars before the latter is close enough to attack.

Do you play the game much Bjorn? (Genuine question, not a dig.)

Admittedly, not recently. But I think the point of resisting psychic attacks still stands, considering Chaos worshipers often have Initiative bonuses that let them attack first.

 

 

Initiative doesn't exist anymore. Fight and fight first mechanics are drastically different, and we have ways to play with those baked into our custom litanies now. We innately resist psychic attacks just by being black templar, though in theory a +1 to our mortal wounds resist would be good, or perhaps that unit gets 1 free deny the witch. BT are still lacking in psychic deny these days, especially for the anti-psycher melee faction. Need more ways to stop Da Jump and buff powers.

 

no army have better ways to deal with this then us. I always play some Incursors so I am always in 24" to a psyker.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

Laughable. We have 1 4+ deny that costs CP, and at most 2 +1 denies if we take Grimaldus, that means at most we can stop 3 psychic powers. That's about average deny capability for anyone who cares to take it, roughly comparable to what Custodes can bring to the table if they also build for anti psycher.

 

I find myself facing DG a lot in my local meta, sometimes backed up with Nurgle daemons. They can easily have 6 casts to spread across the field, and the most dangerous of those are buffs. So if I bring Grimaldus I can still only, at best, deal with half.

 

We have a single psychic trick, and good mortal wounds resist. We are by no means the best at dealing with psychic. We're not even top 5.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

But we're not supposed to be able to deny that many powers. That's not our thing.

 

I'm just curious what more would you want realistically? Let's say you were playing a chapter with access to Librarians. You probably wouldn't be taking more than one because they're not as good as other HQs, you wouldn't be able to use the deny strat, nor have Grimaldus and his one, maybe two denies. So you'd have one, maybe two denies with a chief Librarian, and only access to the FNP with the litany of Faith.

 

What we have is ok for a faction that has no psychic capability whatsoever, and arguably, with the MW 5+++ we come off better than most of them, and arguably better than every other chapter.

[Sete]

What's our thing tho?