Grey Knights 9th edition wishlist

[Archadeus]

Yeah if our terminators don't get 3 wounds you can have all my models. Pallys should get ws2 bodyguard and something else to make up their points in this edition.

 

Ahh you're right, what a bummer. Should've guessed humans are still right handed after 38k years.

[Sweetcurse]

Hey I’ll be happy if they do. I just don’t want to get hopes up. The art on the cover is very hard to judge but it looks like regular dudes to me with artistic flair. Either way I’ll be super happy to eat my words. I don’t want Primaris, just upscale.

[Captain Coolpants]

I have no doubts that terminators will get 3 wounds. I think the real question is how many wounds will paladins have? If they give them 4 wounds, I can see them reducing the squad size limit.

I think it'll be more likely to give them WS2 as others have said. And hopefully a bodyguard rule.

[Cleon]

 

 

^ If I am understanding the wording correctly, does this mean as long as there is at least 1 remaining enemy PSYKER CHARACTER/MONSTER left at the end of the game...they get 0 VP?

 

So, for example:

- vs. a SM army with 1 Librarian, if they destroy him they get 5VP.

- vs. a SM army with 2 Librarians, if they destroy only 1 they get 0VP.

- vs. a GK army with 4 psyker Characters, if they destroy 3 they get 0 VP.

 

Yep, that's the intent. You can't score from killing units and the reward is high for killing characters, but if you choose to abhor the witch, you are committing to killing all the enemy's PSYKER Character/Monsters during the game, or get no VPs from the objective. If your opponent has 4/5 psyker characters, maybe you choose not to take it, but on the other hand armies who can only have Psykers are not shedding VP constantly and the reward of 10vp against say a sorcer+demon prince death guard army is fair if you manage to kill both. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Cleon

[techsoldaten]

I have no doubts that terminators will get 3 wounds. I think the real question is how many wounds will paladins have? If they give them 4 wounds, I can see them reducing the squad size limit.

I think it'll be more likely to give them WS2 as others have said. And hopefully a bodyguard rule.

 

I suspect Paladins will not receive 4 wounds.

 

They could receive some other kind of rule that reduces damage, either positively (1/2 all incoming damage, similar to Abaddon) or negatively (-1 A in cc.)

 

Either way, 3 W Psychic Terminators with Force Weapons should be beasts on the tabletop. Just hope they are costed affordably. 

[Ichar]

Twin Falchions are still 4 points more than all other options bar Daemonhammer.

 

Just saying...

Maybe worth it if they mirror lightning claws : +1 attack per falchion and reroll wounds?

[Captain Coolpants]

Didn't they say all points are wrong?

[Waking Dreamer]

 

Twin Falchions are still 4 points more than all other options bar Daemonhammer.

 

Just saying...

Maybe worth it if they mirror lightning claws : +1 attack per falchion and reroll wounds?

 

With all those bonuses, crunch-wise it would be hands down the go to NFW (even after the others get their +1S Codex bonus), across all the common T3-T6 targets. But at 4 points more it still ends up being a careful / balanced choice.

 

If GW limits it's bonuses to just +1A per Falchion (+2A for Twin), it needs to be cheaper. Maybe 1 point per Falchion instead of the currently ridiculous 2 points.

[Skywrath]

 

 

Twin Falchions are still 4 points more than all other options bar Daemonhammer.

Just saying...

 

Maybe worth it if they mirror lightning claws : +1 attack per falchion and reroll wounds?

 

With all those bonuses, crunch-wise it would be hands down the go to NFW (even after the others get their +1S Codex bonus), across all the common T3-T6 targets. But at 4 points more it still ends up being a careful / balanced choice.

 

If GW limits it's bonuses to just +1A per Falchion (+2A for Twin), it needs to be cheaper. Maybe 1 point per Falchion instead of the currently ridiculous 2 points.

Possibility that the reason the falchions staying at 2pts each is because they've been bumped up to S5? Or have -3 on top of that one attack? I'm reasonably certain we are getting +1 attack for the pair, but there has to be a reason we are still at 2pts a piece.

[Waking Dreamer]

The 2 points for falchion in the recent pdf does not represent it's value in the upcoming Codex, it reflects GW's rules team perceived value with it's current stats now.

 

That is, they still believe SUser AP-2 D3 damage is better than SUser AP-3 D3 Damage, or that it's also better than S+1 AP-2 D3 (so much so it's STILL worth 2 points more).

 

Until the MFM comes out we won't know how much twin falchions will cost (with its official 9E Codex rules).

 

Sure, they most likely copy-paste current points bar the land raider changes in the pdf provided - without much/any thought. There's also the chance they actually thought more deeply about falchion buffs for the Codex, which we may get a hint with when we see the actual MFM GK points. 

 

If the MFM shows a different point value for a falchion, it shows AT LEAST they actually thought about balancing falchions for the 9E Codex. If it remains 2 points extra per falchion, I feel like 65/35 it has the same terrible imbalance it does now. The only way to justify the 4 points extra, is if it has the lightning claw buffs Ichar suggested.

 

A simple buff of +1S, or -3AP for a single falchion still makes it inferior to a 9E Codex Force sword with the stats of S+1 AP-3 D3 damage. Why would a falchion cost 2 points more than a force sword when it will either have one less strength or one less AP...?

[Skywrath]

The 2 points for falchion in the recent pdf does not represent it's value in the upcoming Codex, it reflects GW's rules team perceived value with it's current stats now.

 

That is, they still believe SUser AP-2 D3 damage is better than SUser AP-3 D3 Damage, or that it's also better than S+1 AP-2 D3 (so much so it's STILL worth 2 points more).

 

Until the MFM comes out we won't know how much twin falchions will cost (with its official 9E Codex rules).

 

Sure, they most likely copy-paste current points bar the land raider changes in the pdf provided - without much/any thought. There's also the chance they actually thought more deeply about falchion buffs for the Codex, which we may get a hint with when we see the actual MFM GK points. 

 

If the MFM shows a different point value for a falchion, it shows AT LEAST they actually thought about balancing falchions for the 9E Codex. If it remains 2 points extra per falchion, I feel like 65/35 it has the same terrible imbalance it does now. The only way to justify the 4 points extra, is if it has the lightning claw buffs Ichar suggested.

 

A simple buff of +1S, or -3AP for a single falchion still makes it inferior to a 9E Codex Force sword with the stats of S+1 AP-3 D3 damage. Why would a falchion cost 2 points more than a force sword when it will either have one less strength or one less AP...?

 

Simply because as myself, Ichar and you pointed out, this would be on top of the extra attack for the pair of falchions. Singularly for a falchion, I agree, they would be inferior to a nemesis sword, but with a pair, that point cost could be justifiable. Especially if you are (like me) planning to run an Ancient alongside just for weight of attacks.

[Waking Dreamer]

Hmm, do you think right now with our current NFW stats (forget about possible 9E Codex changes), twin falchions are worth 4 points over the free force sword and halberd?

[Skywrath]

Hmm, do you think right now with our current NFW stats (forget about possible 9E Codex changes), twin falchions are worth 4 points over the free force sword and halberd?

 

As is, definitely not. But based on my limited experience with this game, (and assuming I am filtering out GW's incompetence correctly), there are glimpses of a bigger picture. So by itself, those 4pt falchion costs are ludicrous, however when you apply force multipliers (such as the aforementioned Ancient), re-rolls/exploding 6's (Augurium Scrolls), I always wonder whether in situations like this whether we are missing something. So then it becomes a hobby for myself to figure out exactly what that is. But then the flip-side of that argument that in the event there is no justifiable action it just amounts to more incompetence from GW's part. Moving on..

 

Switching back to as is - There is *some* merit with Paladins armed with fachions/stave with the Ancient with Augurium Scrolls. 6 attacks each, with 6's generating exploding hits. Switch to tide of fury, and hammerhand on top of this, and anything, even those pesky Deathwing get absolutely annihilated. 

[Waking Dreamer]

 

Hmm, do you think right now with our current NFW stats (forget about possible 9E Codex changes), twin falchions are worth 4 points over the free force sword and halberd?

 

As is, definitely not.

 

 

Even if one was to tech their list with Paladins, an Ancient and the relic scroll – to maximise the use of twin falchions...their cost remains just too high imo. Consider as you say, the ideal unit for twin falchions is a squad of 10 Paladins (for the survivability of getting into combat), Paragon has the hammer and 2 Paladins get warding staves. Thinking about it, is 28pts for an additional 7 S4 AP-2 attacks worth it? Augurium Scrolls gets you an extra hit on 6s, so “statistically” those extra 7 attacks gets you 1 extra exploding hit...for 28 points up front? Halberds will also give you exploding 6s, but you don’t have to pay 28 points for the average of one extra exploding 6 – which again may, or may not ever happen.

 

And sure Hammerhand makes falchions generally wound on 3s (so you dont have to worry about the S4 right?), but now think if they were halberds...they would be wounding on 2s instead, re-rolling 1s with Fury Tide (AND for 28 points cheaper). Yeah, you lose 7 attacks at the beginning of a fight, but those 28 points would've upgraded 4 of those paladins with the maximum number of psycannons instead of storm bolters.

 

So before the fight phase, and before even the charge phase, you could be shooting with 16 S7 AP-1 shots to enemy units within 24”...as a trade off for losing 7 S4 AP-2 attacks two phases later (if you make the charge). And if you don’t make that charge, well at least you had the opportunity to shoot those 4 psycannons with those 28 points instead (making the points investment more well-rounded and less risky than with twin falchions) imo.

 

^ Now, that scenario is before 9E Codex changes right? Many people here would probably say "objectively" it’s not worth the points investment as is. But giving 9E Codex Falchions +1S, or AP-3 finally makes the 4 extra points worth it…

 

Would it really? Consider below:

 

Currently (before 9E Codex) as is the general consensus, for 4 points cheaper (aka free) a:

- Force Sword has +1AP vs. +1A from Twin Falchions = Sword has the better value

- Force Halberd has +1S vs. +1A from Twin Falchions = Halberd has the better value

 

Now for your proposed 9E Codex changes, Falchions with +1S means:

- Force Sword has +1AP vs. +1A from Twin Falchions = Sword has the better value...right?

 

Or, if 9E Codex Falchions get +1AP this means:

- Force Sword has +1S vs. +1A from Twin Falchions = Sword has the better value...right?

 

Wouldn’t the status quo pretty much still be the same as is now? That is, with only minimal buffs for your proposed 9E Codex Twin Falchions, the main advantage of +1A over other weapons - is STILL "definitely not" worth the extra 4 points investment…?

[Skywrath]

First off all, I never disagreed falchions (as they are) are better than swords - quite the opposite. My assumptions above were with 9th edition in mind, I wasn't challenging your logic, I was merely pointing out an interesting way to use them, trivial as it is. However, assuming our falchions are 1pt each, does the mathhammer then agree with my assessment that falchions would be better? I'd be really surprised if it didn't. 

 

That aside, a thought has occured to me - seeing how we are going to be even less generic from the SM, do we foresee us losing our Transhuman Physiology ability?

[Corvus Fortis]

New GK costs, which should be in codex, leaked. 

 

And it looks like nothing much changes for us. Strikes and their counterparts received a small price hike  for second wounds, same for terminators. Paladins, however, will become cheaper, and, I think, it is conformation, that they are not getting 4th wound. Difference between them and terminators will be only 5 pts per model. I hope, they will get bodyguard rule.

 

Apothecaries gained a major hike in points. They promise to be very strong choice.

 

GMNDKs and NDKs doesn't seem to get updated much, since they become even cheaper without upgrades. Our other HQ seem to be very cheap too. Crowe gained +5 points. Looks like he doesn't change much at all. Brotherhood champion is significantly cheaper. It is either a nerf or a cost drop. I am afraid, he won't get teleport strike.

 

Purifiers do now cost more than strikes. Maybe, they will get a slight update on their scroll.  Purgators are same as strikes, looks like they are not getting "ignore movement penalty". Shame.

 

All nemesis weapons, except hammer, have the same cost again. Looks like falchions are not getting +1 S, which is expected. Psilencer and incinerator are the same. Looks like no changes for them either. They also replace NFW+SB for free for 3+ guys. Terminators have to pay extra. Psycannons are +5 points compared to other weapons. 

 

I am afraid, we won't see much profile changes, but by simply bringing us in line with other marines will do a fair update. 

 

I am also afraid, that GK won't be treated properly once again and just a codex to fill a gap between grand releases. I won't bear another portion of lazy writing.

 

Of course, all of the above are pure guessing. Don't take it too serious.

[Skywrath]

My thoughts. 

 

Librarian - cheaper. Good I suppose. Suppose those 3pts for everyone is accommodating for the extra wound. Curious to see what the formula is when GW build a character (e.g. terminator armor is 20pts, 3pts per wound, 10pts for re-roll 1's)? Either way, just speculation.

Brotherhood Champion - ridiculously cheaper, not sure why. 

Chaplain - cheaper. Also good, depending if we get new litanies. 

Crowe - 90pts, well that was expected.

Brother-Captain - More expensive, looks like he isn't getting much new. 

Brother-Captain Stern - More expensive, probably will stay the same as he is now.

Grand Masters - same costs, don't expect much from him in the new codex.

Grand Masters on Nemesis Dreadknight - OHOHOHO. This is interesting, from the perspective as I see this as primarily negative. For starters, for that cost, that's an indication he will stay T6 with probably the same W profile. Seeing how SM's are limited by the one captain per detachment rule, this could be a way to compensate, I suppose, from a positive perspective?

Voldus - 10pts cheaper. Very nice!

Kaldor - 10pts cheaper, also very nice! Rip Kaldor becomes a LoW option though.

Techmarine - ALSO INTERESTING! 20pts more expensive, implies there might be new options for him.

 

Squad - meh. Also, where the hell is the psilencer option????

Terminators - as expected went up. There's our 3W boys! *glares at whoever implied we will have 2W*

 

Brotherhood Ancient - the pts nerf.. where is his option for storm-bolter, was it baked in?

Paladin Ancient - stayed the same.

Apothecary - Oh my, that 20pts hike, curious though does that mean the other options for him are free, on top of other options?

Dreadnought - same.

Venerable Dreadnought - I'm curious what is the option for Doppio cannone laser? Was hoping to kinda see a nemesis doomglaive option as a CCW. 

Servitors - went up, I presume that's to keep them in line with the SM options.

Paladin squad - YES YES YES, THE BIG BOYS ARE CHEAPER!! 

Purifier squad - also interesting - went up, implies new stuff for them.

 

Interceptor Squad - again, where is the psilencer option?

 

Heavy Support - Nemesis Dreadknight for 120pts..that seems tempting enough to warrant taking them in lists, even with a 5+ invuln. 

All Land Raiders- same.

Purgation Squad - again, where are the psilencers??

 

I just off-hand realised something. Seeing how cheap the GMNDK's are now (relatively speaking) does that mean they will lose access to being buffed to a 3+ invuln? If this is true, that means sanctuary could get reworked to something like: 

 

1. Sanctuary: Improve the invuln save of a Grey Knights INFANTRY unit by 1?

Edited May 30, 2021 by Skywrath

[Captain Coolpants]

If you see no price for incinerators or psilencers. Its because they're free. Same for sword and halberd. Edited May 30, 2021 by Captain Coolpants

[Skywrath]

If you see no price for incinerators or psilencers. Its because they're free. Same for sword and halberd.

 

Thanks mate.

[Holier Than Thou]

Does that mean the Dreadknight Heavy Incinerator is free? I didn’t see it listed.

 

Edit: Never mind, it’s in the leaked points. Just missing from the GMNDK entry in GW’s PDF.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Holier Than Thou

[Sarvis]

I’m surprised nobody has caught this, (or maybe they have and I missed it), look at the codex art, the knight on the right has the knee-guard on his leg armor that all primaris have. IMO that’s a dead giveaway

[Corvus Fortis]

- I'm curious what is the option for Doppio cannone laser? Was hoping to kinda see a nemesis doomglaive option as a CCW. 

 

 

It is twin lascannon.

 

All the missing entries of weapons are now free upgrades, and that's great. Even with stats not changing much, heavy weapons may be way more worth for free (assuming no nerfs to tide of convergence).

[Shagah]

Could they be free because SBs get Psychic ammo all the time on Infantry?  Complete wish listing, but so fluffy.

[Corvus Fortis]

Could they be free because SBs get Psychic ammo all the time on Infantry?  Complete wish listing, but so fluffy.

 

 

Not really, All stormbolters cost 5 points now, and we can see that librarian gets a generic one. Our special weapons always have been overcosted and a free upgrade is a fair price. I don't see them changing much though.

[Brother Sidonius]

I've still got high hopes for the Codex. Seeing the big changes that have been made in all of the other Codices there could still be a lot going on that's not represented in the points. 

 

I also had a fun idea that'd be cool to see. What if every unit had a psychic power built into it's datasheet? Maybe just a 1 use ability like the way Interceptors are able to redeploy with out using Gate of Infinity. Or a baby version of the power like Purgation Squads that can ignore the benefit of cover