Predicting Primaris: What will the next wave bring?

[Volt]

Forget terminators for a while, Primaris need HQ options that don't suck. Primaris still has nothing on firstborn HQ's bizarrely and are just kneecapping yourself in a game design and model perspective and options. Not only does the lack of mobility on all Primaris HQ's make them pointless takes, but their loadouts are utterly impotent. They don't even have chainfists, nevermind thunderhammers, or the ability to take storm shields. GW still hasn't fixed the inanery of the transport situation either, so actually getting a beatstick Primaris character into combat is a pain. Or for the other characters too. Primaris Chaplains (barring the bike guy) and Librarians are also totally unappealing options because they have no rapid delivery. Not only can you not just slap a jump pack on them so you can use them as an emergency buff to back up a faltering side of your board - you can't even put them into drop pods.

 

Which also leaves me wondering what the fiscal side of things is like, because when it comes to sales people are only buying Primaris characters for the modelling part of the hobby or for trying to fill out a pure Primaris army. Nobody is bringing their 6" moving Primaris Captain with a generic loadout because he wrecks monsters or vehicles in melee. GW has to be looking at the sales of the Commander kit or old chaps and libbies for firstborn and scratching their heads wondering where they (obviously) screwed up. Primaris HQ's desperately need models that actually give them mobility such as jump packs or terminator armor, weapons that don't suck, or just FAQing primaris finally for firstborn vehicles.

 

Also I will laugh for days if GW ever honestly makes a "Primaris Drop Pod". Current kit's perfectly serviceable and Primaris ought to just be allowed to use it to significantly boost their delivery options.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Captain Idaho
Be careful with your choice of language

[Brother Kraskor]

Also I will laugh for days if GW ever honestly makes a "Primaris Drop Pod". Current kit's perfectly serviceable and Primaris ought to just be allowed to use it to significantly boost their delivery options.

 

... but they could make more money by releasing a Destructor Pod which can land on an objective and make it permanently friendly-controlled until the Pod is removed, like a facehugger. And also deploy Gravis to secure the area.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Brother Kraskor

[Karhedron]

A lot of Marine armies in 8th revolved around castling so the lack of mobility options was not such a hindrance. The arrival of the Impulsor has given Primaris a cheap(ish) transport option and models can disembark after moving to spread their buffs. Only the Chaplain can't work this way and it is telling that he got the Bike first. Also any unit can be put in Tactical Reserve now so that is another option.

 

Now that Captains don't benfit from their own auras, I think weapons with -1 to-Hit are a bit less appealing on them. They are better off with an MC Power Sword (which is actually decent now) or a Relic Blade. They can accompany units which have heavier hitting power to buff them.

 

I would like Primaris characters with the flexibility and mobility of Firstborn characters but then you have to ask why anyone would Firstborn at all. Primaris Characters already are already a bargain for +1W and +1A costing just a handful of extra points. The thing that Firstborn characters having going for them is their flexibility. If you provide Primaris with the same options as Firstborn, there is pretty much no point in supporting Firstborn anymore. Also GW like the fixed builds as they are easier to point and balance. The more options you pile on a single unit, the more chance someone can create a powerful combo that exceeds what GW envisaged for the unit.

[Captain Idaho]

I think Volt is correct about characters. Footslogging characters need to be cheap so their lack of melee use and slower movement wastes as few points as possible. Otherwise, they need Jump packs and Terminator armour to get where they need to be as soon as possible.

 

Impulsors do help a lot, as you can get a Primaris character anywhere you need them to be turn one just about. However, the issues with transport reliance is the extra points cost necessary. You can't put a character in the middle of the enemy on his own, so you need to pay points for his escort, his escort needs additional support as they can't be amongst the enemy alone, plus you need to pay for the transport.

 

Not a bad thing but of course it's a niche that not all people want to use.

 

I am surprised GW hasn't created Inceptor themed characters, or other jump packs, for Primaris. It seems like an automatic release that should have existed before Phobos as far as troupes are concerned.

 

I agree the Firstborn have a niche Primaris don't fill, but objectively speaking GW are promoting Primaris above all Marines so it's surprising they haven't made stuff obsolete. (A nice surprise for me who has loads of Firstborn)

Edited January 15, 2021 by Captain Idaho

[Captain Antargo]

More phobos, literally just more phobos.

[Brother Kraskor]

The arrival of the Impulsor has given Primaris a cheap(ish) transport option and models can disembark after moving to spread their buffs. Only the Chaplain can't work this way and it is telling that he got the Bike first. Also any unit can be put in Tactical Reserve now so that is another option.

 

Chaplains can if you pay CP! 2CP in any phase to autocast a Litany provided they haven't done any litanies that turn.

[WARMASTER_]

Said it before, if primaris get terminator armour it should be Saturnine Mk II, then release Saturnine Mk I as well for old marines (40k + HH rules there). If you see this GW, this will make a LOT of money for the company.

Now you see I think Primaris Terminators should be based on Tartaros pattern. If you look at Tartaros armour, you can clearly see it is based on Mk4 power armour. Mk10 Intercessor armour is also based on Mk4 but in an enlarged version. In my mind, Primaris Terminators should look like a cross between Tartaros and Mk10,

Where as I agree broadly with what you’re saying, MK10 isn’t solely based on MK4 it’s a upgraded MK7 + 8 body with MK 4 helmet and I’m hoping they do the same if they ever make a terminator version and use aesthetics from a number of marks.

I’m honestly certain the Gravis is the terminator replacement though and it’s used much more like it was in the heresy, I think a more familiar load out would endear more players to Gravis though maybe thunder hammer SS or PF Storm bolter etc

Edited January 15, 2021 by BladeOfVengeance

[WARMASTER_]

Forget terminators for a while, Primaris need HQ options that don't suck. Primaris still has nothing on firstborn HQ's bizarrely and are just kneecapping yourself in a game design and model perspective and options. Not only does the lack of mobility on all Primaris HQ's make them pointless takes, but their loadouts are utterly impotent. They don't even have chainfists, nevermind thunderhammers, or the ability to take storm shields. GW still hasn't fixed the inanery of the transport situation either, so actually getting a beatstick Primaris character into combat is a pain. Or for the other characters too. Primaris Chaplains (barring the bike guy) and Librarians are also totally unappealing options because they have no rapid delivery. Not only can you not just slap a jump pack on them so you can use them as an emergency buff to back up a faltering side of your board - you can't even put them into drop pods.

 

Which also leaves me wondering what the fiscal side of things is like, because when it comes to sales people are only buying Primaris characters for the modelling part of the hobby or for trying to fill out a pure Primaris army. Nobody is bringing their 6" moving Primaris Captain with a generic loadout because he wrecks monsters or vehicles in melee. GW has to be looking at the sales of the Commander kit or old chaps and libbies for firstborn and scratching their heads wondering where they (obviously) screwed up. Primaris HQ's desperately need models that actually give them mobility such as jump packs or terminator armor, weapons that don't suck, or just FAQing primaris finally for firstborn vehicles .

The indomitus captain is a great generic Primaris HQ option, one in an Impulsor with 5 Bladeguard is a legit threat in anyone’s midfield

 

I feel like genuinely the only generic firstborn character load out wholly superior to the Primaris is the very over used smash captain with a jump pack

 

Where as I agree we definitely need a few more Generic HQ options with greater options for mobility or a few more Weapon options as more kits come out in future if think you’re underestimating the amount of people who buy models just because like them rather than being “Competitive” in game. The vast majority of the player base is casual, I’m sure the sales figures on the new kits far outweigh the frankly awful Commander kit

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The outriders need more friends... I want a primaris librarian on bike, primaris captain on bike, primaris LT on bike, and a Judiciar on a bike.

I agree. Jump packs should also be an option, for the same reason- the HQ Characters' high Weapon Skills are USELESS if an enemy flees beyond the Characters' reach, before they can cross swords (axes, lightning claws, power fists, chainfists, etc.)!

Also... a primaris drop pod that can hold gravis or a redemptor. Of course this drop pod would have as many guns as the repulsor.

Why not let the Repulsor deploy from orbit, like a drop pod, as described in Black Library novels?

[Volt]

 

Forget terminators for a while, Primaris need HQ options that don't suck. Primaris still has nothing on firstborn HQ's bizarrely and are just kneecapping yourself in a game design and model perspective and options. Not only does the lack of mobility on all Primaris HQ's make them pointless takes, but their loadouts are utterly impotent. They don't even have chainfists, nevermind thunderhammers, or the ability to take storm shields. GW still hasn't fixed the inanery of the transport situation either, so actually getting a beatstick Primaris character into combat is a pain. Or for the other characters too. Primaris Chaplains (barring the bike guy) and Librarians are also totally unappealing options because they have no rapid delivery. Not only can you not just slap a jump pack on them so you can use them as an emergency buff to back up a faltering side of your board - you can't even put them into drop pods.

 

Which also leaves me wondering what the fiscal side of things is like, because when it comes to sales people are only buying Primaris characters for the modelling part of the hobby or for trying to fill out a pure Primaris army. Nobody is bringing their 6" moving Primaris Captain with a generic loadout because he wrecks monsters or vehicles in melee. GW has to be looking at the sales of the Commander kit or old chaps and libbies for firstborn and scratching their heads wondering where they (obviously) screwed up. Primaris HQ's desperately need models that actually give them mobility such as jump packs or terminator armor, weapons that don't suck, or just FAQing primaris finally for firstborn vehicles .

The indomitus captain is a great generic Primaris HQ option, one in an Impulsor with 5 Bladeguard is a legit threat in anyone’s midfield

 

I feel like genuinely the only generic firstborn character load out wholly superior to the Primaris is the very over used smash captain with a jump pack

 

Where as I agree we definitely need a few more Generic HQ options with greater options for mobility or a few more Weapon options as more kits come out in future if think you’re underestimating the amount of people who buy models just because like them rather than being “Competitive” in game. The vast majority of the player base is casual, I’m sure the sales figures on the new kits far outweigh the frankly awful Commander kit

 

No Primaris Characters basically lose out on all good loadouts for characters. For Librarians the Primaris Lib only runs around with a sword, which is the inferior of the axe and stave. The Chaplain only has a Crozius, which is a crummy melee weapon to begin with and worse than the good old power fist beat stick. For Captains you're missing out on all of the goodies in melee, storm shields, chainfists, lightning claws, power axes, thunder hammers, etc. The only thing they have going for them is the actual ability to take power fists, but iirc the only accessible model with that loadout was a temp run unless you play Dark Angels. And that's not even getting into shooting, because when it comes to ranged options they just outright suck compared to firstborn. Combi Bolters were the best thing made after sliced bread and none of the primaris options measure up to the tried and true combi plas or combi melta.

 

It's also not even about being comp, but simply not getting your teeth pushed in. If Firstborn HQ's were cut tomorrow and all that was left was the Primaris options, the entire collection of marine armies would be horribly maimed compared to their old utility. Not only are they rather hard to deliver by any useful means for want of deepstrike, they also just die in melee or get bogged down where Firstborn would score kills. The Gravis Captain also isn't saying much. Sure you can try to make him into a bit of a beatstick, but it's a more inept version of a meager jump pack captain with a thunder hammer or a run of the mill termiantor captain that isn't even seriously optimized. While Intercessors are finally actually a unit that offers pros and cons compared to a tactical squad, opting for a primaris captain is just kneecapping your army's potential for zero gain. Either GW needs to start making Primaris units that don't suck, or they just need to allow them rules wise full access to the wargear list like a normal character. Intercessor Sergeants do beat-sticking better than Captains.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The Gravis Captain with sword and fist is just fine plus there’s relics available for that extra umph if you really feel you need it. And tbh I think units like smash captains aren’t as nearly prevalent now that they can’t reroll their own hits anymore.

[Dracos]

... and Storm Shields aren’t that big a deal on Captains any more but the the Indomitus Cpt. has one.

 

The Indomitus Lt. is pretty tasty for the points.

[redmapa]

We have yet to see a close combat version of a Primaris Dreadnought, sure the Redemptor can punch but its a mixed role unit like the Venerable/Vanilla Dreadnought, so where's the Ironclad equivalent? And I would absolutely love to see a Mortis version of Primaris Dreadnought.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

... and Storm Shields aren’t that big a deal on Captains any more but the the Indomitus Cpt. has one.

 

The Indomitus Lt. is pretty tasty for the points.

I think the Indomnitus Lt is the best of the bunch. Also there’s a good number of Primaris special characters to choose from now.

[Karhedron]

Yes, the Indomitus LT costs almost exactly the same as a Firstborn captain and has very similar capabilities. The advantage he brings is that he only uses half of an HQ slot so you can bring more buffing characters before you need another detachment.

[War Angel]

The relic auto bolt rifle is an absolute delight. And without access to rerolls, I’m ok with not having plasma on my captain.

[YogiDaAngel]

So my guess for new wave will be close combat support with a spin.
First Primaris Evaporators volkite/flamer squad 3-6 gravis assault or heavy weapons, heavy support

Second Primaris Ruinator Dreadnought - heavy dreadnought chain fist, heavy stubbers, ruinator first (like redemptor but 1 ap more), elites

Third Primaris Volantors - jump pack cc squad - heavy boly pistol, astartes chainswords, can redoply after drop, troops ofc

Fourth Primaris Caedesors - jump pack cc squad - 3-6 power weapons and volkite pistols/light guns, elites

Fifth Primaris Captain in Shrike pattern armour - Jump pack - Mastercrafted power claw - Volkite repeater - Assault 4 weapon. HQ

It was fun to come up with these names :D 

[Brother Kraskor]

Ahaha Evaporators tickled me. Scourge of condensation on car windscreens, bane of the water cycle!

[Bjorn Firewalker]

It was fun to come up with these names

I agree.

[L30n1d4s]

Lol, these are hilarious.

 

My favorite would be the Salinators:

 

For each Salinator unit in your army, before the game select one of your opponent's favorite units from the most recent codex release. That unit has its points increased by 50% and loses 2D3 of it Special Rules.

 

;)

[Segismundo]

Primaris Grey Knights? Edited January 19, 2021 by Segismundo

[Dracos]

I hope not. I think that would convince me Firstborn were on the Legends block. Giving them 2w should be enough to keep everyone happy. Ok not everyone because snowflakes (glancing at mirror )

[Brother Kraskor]

They are surely on the Legends block long term though, whatever GW says. If you take all emotion out of it, the model range is inferior, they look more stumpy and less lifelike. See CSM: GW see this size as a clear advance in the sculpt. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Brother Kraskor

[L30n1d4s]

I suspect that GW is releasing all the new Primaris units, then eventually will go back and release Primaris kits of the firstborn (i.e. Primaris Tactical Squads, Vanguard, etc.).

 

This way they can get players that want to to buy new "true scale/modern" models to replace their old ones, but they also leave the option for players who have large collections of the old models to keep using them if they want to.

 

If they do go this route, then I'd expect that not only would the rules for the old school units (i.e. Tactical Marines, Terminators, Assault Marines, etc.) get "primarised" (i.e. extra attack, "Primaris" Key Word, access to Transhuman, etc.), but they might even evolve the options for the units when they give them new kits (i.e. Tac Marines get access to additional weapons options, maybe some "specialists" upgrades like the Helix Adept from the Infiltrators, etc.).

 

We'll see what happens, but I would not be shocked if GW goes this route of "upgrading" the old school models, once they have finished releasing most of the new Primaris units (probably a couple years yet to go for this).

Edited January 20, 2021 by L30n1d4s

[Brother Kraskor]

Or have they maybe not thought that far ahead. They've released this new hot line of models, profited short term, but are now faced with the grim choice of whether to press on with the new line and alienate the Firstborn fanbase.