Predicting Primaris: What will the next wave bring?

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I don't think the waves will be anywhere near as large moving forward. I think we'll see multiple kits but it will be more character heavy with an occasional unit.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

This is so wishlisty now it’s cringe hard.

[WrathOfTheLion]

How they slot into rules can be a reasonable prediction mechanism. So for example, we knew bikes and speeders were coming because of Ravenwing.

 

Since BGVs can only be up to 18 models and don't get obsec for Deathwing, I would think there is another bladeguard unit that is perhaps more numerous to come.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

This is so wishlisty now it’s cringe hard.

That's just the nature of these threads, as they get more replies you start to see more and more specific responses. On the bright side there haven't been as many "I hate primaris" posts in this one, the first few were pretty rough on that front. I do think its because for the most part GW has done a good of filling the holes in the primaris line up while keeping the firstborn models good from a rules perspective.

 

That said I do expect that we'll see a Primaris Breacher squad at some point, because that has a been a fairly popular suggestion since before shadowspear in these threads. As someone who only runs primaris I just don't see a lot of holes in the line up anymore. Which is why I don't think we'll see another wave of this size anytime soon.

 

Edit:left out a key word in the post. I do think GW had done a good job keeping first born units good.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Jorin Helm-splitter

[WrathOfTheLion]

GW has done an excellent job at ensuring every Space Marine player would be happy, so I think those posts will fade away.

 

People don't hate factions because they don't like them, but because they think it will take away what they have. Since that has been addressed with GW really taking the time to bring classic astartes up and the setting being fixed at the indomitus era, that isn't really an issue anymore.

 

I agree on size, I think this filled out the range for the most part, and future releases will be smaller, maybe targeted at specific factions. Interrogator-Chaplains, Sanguinary Priests, etc. are all things that I think will eventually come out, and are easy to add as one-offs.

[Blindhamster]

yeah, the only "hole" is a fast moving melee unit (outriders don't fill that niche, too basic attacks and too low numerically).

So I'd expect a unit that can perform that sort of role that would fit in with both Ravenguard and Blood Angels in particular, so jump packs, lightning claw option (because its also a thing we havent seen for primaris).

I imagine we'll see "something" around the same time we see an update to the existing marine supplements. Possibly 2 units, each of which have a chapter specific version like the space wolf guys or the DC intercessors maybe.

Oher than that, yeah, characters. GW always make a lot of marine characters.

[Marshal Reinhard]

A small mini wave with of omnis pattern air units, including a perhaps a slightly redesigned multipart surpressor kit, as well as a melee omnis unit,, is in order?  Otherwise a dedicated veteran intercessor kit is about the only thing I can think off, before I really feel it's high time they started doing some chapter specific kits.

[WARMASTER_]

I really think we’ll see more “veteran” units coming out soon Venerable Redemptor Dreads, Veteran Intercessors maybe a Sternguard or Gravis style unit etc it’s what happened last time around and I’d definitely be on board with it

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

More Redemptor options would be awesome.

[Highlander]

I feel that GW will be looking to provide a kit for each force org slot for each armour type so people can run whole armies in one armour type. If that’s the case then it would seem that a fast attack kit in Phobos armour is required. Agree with the OP that this will be similar to Shrike and be a jump pack and lighting claws type model. Additionally, this would mean a troop, elite and heavy support kit in the Ominous pattern armour, with the heavy support possibly to be some form of grav weapon.

 

There could possibly be further gravis, and tacticus armour kits in the future being more geared towards veterans along with more dreadnought options.

[L30n1d4s]

I'd like to see GW do some "specialist" versions of existing units for each Chapter, like they did for Reivers with the Space Wolf "Hounds of Morkai" anti-psyker squad.

 

 

For example, here are some ideas that could be done:

 

1 - White Scar "Chogoris Hunters" -- Veteran version of Outriders, still limited to three models/squad, but Elites slot unit that have 3A base, +3A on the charge, and are equipped with Storm Sabers (S:+1 AP-4 Dmg1, gain +1 to hit when they charged)

 

2 - Imperial Fist "Siege Breachers" -- Unique Heavy Support version of Heavy Intercessors, 5-10 man squad, that all have Heavy Grenade Launchers (24" range, Assault D6 shots, S5 AP-1 Dmg1 Blast) and Siege Shields (cannot Advance, but give them +2 to their Armor Save).

 

3 - Black Templar "Marshal's Household" Squad -- Elite version of Veteran Intercessors, 5-10 models per squad, who have the same stats as Veteran Intercessors (except for WS2+) and who are equipped with Bolt Rifles, Heavy Bolt Pistols, and Relic Blades (S:+3 AP-3 Dmg 2)

[Blindhamster]

I'd like to see GW do some "specialist" versions of existing units for each Chapter, like they did for Reivers with the Space Wolf "Hounds of Morkai" anti-psyker squad.

 

 

For example, here are some ideas that could be done:

 

1 - White Scar "Chogoris Hunters" -- Veteran version of Outriders, still limited to three models/squad, but Elites slot unit that have 3A base, +3A on the charge, and are equipped with Storm Sabers (S:+1 AP-4 Dmg1, gain +1 to hit when they charged)

 

2 - Imperial Fist "Siege Breachers" -- Unique Heavy Support version of Heavy Intercessors, 5-10 man squad, that all have Heavy Grenade Launchers (24" range, Assault D6 shots, S5 AP-1 Dmg1 Blast) and Siege Shields (cannot Advance, but give them +2 to their Armor Save).

 

3 - Black Templar "Marshal's Household" Squad -- Elite version of Veteran Intercessors, 5-10 models per squad, who have the same stats as Veteran Intercessors (except for WS2+) and who are equipped with Bolt Rifles, Heavy Bolt Pistols, and Relic Blades (S:+3 AP-3 Dmg 2)

whilst cool, all of those are miles better than the current "unique" primaris units haha.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

This is so wishlisty now it’s cringe hard.

 

Yeah, there's a reason I named the thread *PREDICTING* Primaris. The whole point was to get the ball rolling with what I think GW WILL give us in the next wave, not what I WANT them to do. And then let the community rip into those predictions and critique my reasoning for the units I picked, as well as offering up their own alternatives which would hopefully spawn new discussions and maybe eventually lead us to a unit set that most of us actually agreed on as the most likely to show up.

 

Instead, while there was a lot of that early on, it looks like the discussion has largely turned into "Wishlisting Primaris." Not a conversation I mind having, but it had been done to death and I frankly felt a prediction thread would be more productive.

 

Emperor knows if my intent had been to start off a wishlisting thread, the units I described would have been a lot more imaginative than the relatively sedate picks I made trying to stay within the bounds of "likelihood" as opposed to pie in the sky. And while I was at it, I would have wished for all jump pack units to be modelled on the ground or other terrain like Shrike and for GW to renounce the use of flight stands with Primaris squads for the remainder of time.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Lord Nord

[jaxom]

Edit - accidentally posted before I was done.

 

Units by armor type and role

 

Armor Battleline Close Support Fire Support Veteran

 

Tacticus Intercessors Assault Intercessors, Outriders Hellblasters Bladeguard Veterans

 

Phobos Infiltrators Incursors, Reivers Eliminators None

 

Gravis Heavy Intercessors Inceptors Eradicators, Aggressors None

 

Omnis None None Suppressors None

 

 

Interesting note: Tacticus has been dropped as a keyword. There's Phobos, Gravis, and everything else. Jes Goodwin said Dark Imperium was the three armor types; combined with the latter, I think that also means that "needing an Omnis unit" is not a good predictor for future kits.

 

I think looking at what's been done, versus what's not done, versus possible new weapons on existing units would be a good way to predict new kits. I think looking at existing kits and how they may get a Chapter unique twist is good for predicting the most likely of what we're likely to get  in the near and medium future. The Hounds use nothing but the Reiver kit for weapon options and so I'd expect the same for others; it the new unit requires more than a separate paint job then it's probably wishlisting.

 

White Scar Veteran Outriders - special rules to make them even better at hit-and-run or at keeping enemies in combat.

 

Salamander Volcanic Eradicators - excess backwash from the meltas lets them damage units in engagement range (mortal wounds?).

 

Iron Hands Immortal Heavy Intercessors - built in ignore wounds or ignore 1 point of AP?

 

 

Edited February 5, 2021 by jaxom

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

 

Interesting note: Tacticus has been dropped as a keyword. There's Phobos, Gravis, and everything else. Jes Goodwin said Dark Imperium was the three armor types; combined with the latter, I think that also means that "needing an Omnis unit" is not a good predictor for future kits.

 

 

Tacticus has never been a keyword. Intercessors, Hellblasters and the other Tacticus units were just considered the default from a rules perspective. Even the Reivers didn't gain the PHOBOS keyword until 2019. And Omnis being closest in comparison to Tacticus, I'm not surprised it didn't gain a keyword either (unlike Inceptors getting MK X GRAVIS and Shrike getting PHOBOS).

 

I'm not expecting chapter-specific units for the codex-compliant chapters, even squads that are - as you said - just existing plastic with new datasheets. I guess I'll be pleasantly surprised if that happens as it'll still be something.

 

What I'm predicting instead is that we'll see a second upgrade sprue for the First Founding chapters alongside 9th-Edition versions of the remaining supplements. That sprue would have standard Gravis pads, which are really going to be essential now as we're going to be up to three different squads in Gravis armor without the ridged shoulder pads (Inceptors, Eradicators, and very soon Heavy Intercessors, which are going to be showing up in heavy quantities, being a Troop type). The existing upgrade pads with the ridge just look out of place on all of those squads, though at least they now work for the multipart Bladeguard vets as well. Beyond that, we've got the Tacticus pads with a full ridge that showed up with the Assault Intercessors (another Troop unit) and which presumably will be standard on the multipart Outriders when they arrive as well.

 

I know it took two years for the upgrade kits to show up for the non-Smurfy codex-compliant chapters (unless you bought the Fists Battleforce box). But the "big four" got them quickly and I don't think GW's going to go two years after unleashing the Assault Intercessors multi-part kit to roll out proper chapter upgrade pads for them. So I expect a second kit that's basically the oppositie of the first, with unridged Gravis pads and fully-ridged Tacticus pads, along with more heads, arms and bits. Maybe they'll even surprise me and throw a combat squad's worth of Phobos pads in there as well.

 

And as I've said before, I can't see GW leaving the Ultramarines out of the Crusade goodness for too long (Covid or no Covid), so I really do think we'll see those supplements updated in the late summer / early fall timeframe and that's when we'll see the next and probably last BIG wave of Primaris models.

[jaxom]

Huh, Mandala effect in action; I would have bet money that MkX Tacticus was a keyword at one point.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I want unique primaris units for chapters known for having unique units.

 

And not this "primaris kit+upgrade sprue with chapter appropriate name=unique primaris unit" :cuss we've gotten so far.

 

I'd like BA specific primaris jump infantry or primaris sanguinary guard

Some sort of unique aggressor sculpts for the DA.

A unique primaris melta/hammer unit for salamanders etc.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Vettanker]

I could see a redesign of the Assault Intercessor box to include jump packs. :cuss, it should have from the start. Maybe also an upgrade sprue to build the squad as Primaris Vanguard Vets or whatever they wanna call them.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

I could see a redesign of the Assault Intercessor box to include jump packs. :cuss, it should have from the start. Maybe also an upgrade sprue to build the squad as Primaris Vanguard Vets or whatever they wanna call them.

that would be nice.

It would also be nice if primaris DC had the same melee options as firstborn.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

I could see a redesign of the Assault Intercessor box to include jump packs. , it should have from the start. Maybe also an upgrade sprue to build the squad as Primaris Vanguard Vets or whatever they wanna call them.

 

There are very few guarantees in life or this hobby but one thing I feel pretty safe in saying is that there's less than a shadow of a chance that they'd redesign the Assault Intercessors box when they had years to consider all the options and stuck with the approach they did, bringing them out as they are three years after the Primaris line launched. Plus giving them jump packs wouldn't be just a redesign of the Assault Intercessors, it would be a redesign of how jump propulsion work in the Primaris line. Every jump-capable Primaris we've seen to date has specifically-designed boot thrusters to go along with the jump pack. Inceptors, Suppressors, Shrike... it seems to just be the way they'll be doing all Primaris jump models. The days of just being able to throw a jump pack on a ground-pounding Marine seem to be firmly fading alongside the days of the Firstborn.

 

Now if you asked me if I'd LIKE to see them do it, that's another question. But looking at every example in the Primaris line to date... no, unless they reverse course on a design philosophy that they spent years coming up with before they ever even announced the existence of Primaris and haven't wavered from since, I just can't see them simply ever adding jump packs to an existing unit.

 

Far more likely we see a new Omnis-pattern squad or Shrike-pattern squad that exists alongside the Assault Intercessors (kind of like I predicted in the first post). It's an approach that works great for GW in two ways: easier to balance rules-wise when each squad has a limited array of options and a lot more money in their hands when players can't just buy a package of jump packs, but have to buy a new model that speciifically integrates jump capability in its design.

[Guest Triszin]

On flight tech assault marines, I feel like we need something thats more than the jump jet attached now.

 

There are parts of the flight tech in the primaris range, ideas, that I like. But I think need better execution to work, and feel appropriate.

 

Forstarters.

 

Flight systems:

- Primary: Sanguinary guard single Large jump jet, with multiple thrusters attached

- Limbs: Thrusters on the legs (gravis/phobos), and Thrusters on the Elbows.

 

Because who doesnt want +1 STR Primaris marines, Punching you with a S5x2 Rocket Powered power fist.

 

this is just my quick opinion,

 

but flight tech Assault primaris assault marines are going to be tricky to pull off effectively.

 

Heck, In my mind I imagine them as brutal and blunt as a drop pod.

perhaps they would share more aesthetics with marine vehicles than other marines.

[Vettanker]

However they do it, they're doing a disservice to the jump pack armies out there by not fixing it.

[jaxom]

If the bike kits weren't so old I don't think we would have gotten Outriders and Invaders. 

[jaxom]

On flight tech assault marines, I feel like we need something thats more than the jump jet attached now.

 

*SNIP*

 

but flight tech Assault primaris assault marines are going to be tricky to pull off effectively.

 

Heck, In my mind I imagine them as brutal and blunt as a drop pod.

perhaps they would share more aesthetics with marine vehicles than other marines.

 

We've seen part of this "marine as drop pod/kinetic weapon" with the Inceptors. The addition of grav-plates seems to be the hand-wave of how the new flight system is more like true flight. It's also feature they share with the new grav-vehicles. Flipping around in the air while making melee attacks seems more Eldar to me where Space Marines are brute force. Video games have done a great job representing jump packs as they're most often described: short-distance hops, land hard on someone and get stuck in. Yet, that seems to go against the current paradigm. I think the current design paradigm is that heavily armored assault troops are meant to be visualized as in constant flight and not really putting down - basically one man land speeders; except for when they occasionally waffle-stomp someone. Though, I may be reading too much into no-flight stands vs flight stands.

 

Actual mobile infantry melee options... I think that window closed with the multipart kit Reiver. The concept and mini-designers had the grav-chutes, but the rules team translated that as deep strike and not increased mobility. It could be they had seen Shrike mock-ups at that point and knew there was a separate design for a more actualized grav-jump pack. Or maybe the grav-plates on the boots are what makes the difference; it's the unifying feature of Inceptors, Suppressors, and Shrike. Short of more info coming out, we may never know.

 

However they do it, they're doing a disservice to the jump pack armies out there by not fixing it.

 

I think it comes down to personal preference. If one trusts the statements that Primaris are not out-right replacements for the previous units then a newer kit like the Assault Squad (five-ish years old?) won't be getting an equivalent. The two wound upgrade across the board normalizes any current jump pack army (from a rules perspective). If one really enjoys Primaris models and wants a Primaris equivalent then I don't understand how that would be a disservice to current armies. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Well, with the Heavy Intercessors and HBR Captain now coming our way in less than ten days, we've finally hit the magic point where all the new units from the 9th Ed Codex are actually in the wild. Yes, we're still waiting on multi-part Outriders as well as Suppressors but both of their Codex datasheets reflect only the boxed set versions.

 

So, now we enter the long stretch of presumably zero intel on upcoming Primaris releases as other factions are rightfully focused on and GW tries to get back to business as usual in the age of Covid.

 

The question's been raised previously about whether we'll even see a new Primaris wave over the next year. Personally, I think it'll still happen given what a moneymaker the line has been for GW and I feel that unless production and distribution are impacted even more heavily going forward, they'll still plan on getting the next wave out as planned... plus there's the bonus that the next range shouldn't be nearly as involved as the previous year's. There's also the driving factor that as I said in the original post, I think this will be the last big wave and I'm sure GW would like to see their five-year vision to establish the range fully realized on time, in spite of the delays that the 2020 models experienced. So look for another decent-sized, but not Indomitus-sized, wave to show up starting late Summer of this year.

 

And since I've previously given my predictions on the squad types and vehicles I think we'll see in 2021 (as well as updated supplements and an additional chapter upgrade kit), I figure this would be a good time to close out my predictions with the character models I see us getting:

 

1) Lieutenant in Gravis Armor: Probably one of the safest bets out of all the models I've mentioned to date. But I am on the fence about how they'll introduce the unit and which Heavy Bolt Rifle variants they will have access to. Whereas the Tacticus Captain was similarly limited to either Auto or Stalker Bolt Rifle variants, the Gravis Captain model has the standard rapid-fire version of the Heavy Bolt Rifle. So will they follow this route with the Lieutenant model and only allow access to the same variant, or will they go for a command section coverage of the options by allowing the Lieutenant model(s) to equip Hellstorm and Executor variants, but not the standard variant the Captain has? And will this manifest in two different models (one with each variant) or three (adding in a Gravis LT with a Power Sword, since Lieutenants can't have a melee weapon and a rifle)? In the Tacticus range, we were up to five different models just representing the two Bolt Rifle variants and three guys with Power Swords even before the Indomitus box came along and added another Tacticus Lieutenant with a Storm Shield and Neo-Volkite Pistol to go along with the Power Sword.

 

So if I had to put money on it, I'd bet on GW just going with less options here and producing a total of two Gravis Lieutenants - one with the standard HBR and one with a Power Sword. (But I would like to be wrong, even if it means that some of the wargear options are only covered by limited-edition models, like the Stalker-Pattern Lieutenant). In light of the Indomitus Lieutenant's loadout, I'd even be tempted to think we'd see a single Gravis LT with both the HBR and Power Sword, but that would really make the Tacticus versions look silly.

 

2) Character on Bike. I rate this a high likelihood in any case and a virtual certainty if GW releases a multi-part Outrider kit at the same time. IF they release the multi-part Outriders in 2021, then there will almost certainly be a new Captain on Bike model to go alongside. If for some reason they don't, then maybe we see a Bike Librarian or something to keep the Chaplain company.

 

3) Character with Jump Pack. This is arguably overdue anyway, but since I'm also predicting the appearance of at least one jump squad next year, I think the time will be right to finally do a chapter-agnostic Jump character. Whoever it ends up being, I doubt it'll be the same character type that appears in the bike range the same year, unless they do several of one or both lines (say a Captain and Librarian on bikes and a Captain and whathaveyou with Jump capability). And I'd say the most likely bet is that any jump characters we do see will be in Omnis-pattern, though if they do a Shrike-pattern squad as I suggested, we might see a character there as well. I don't think an Inceptor-pattern character is imminent, and let's be honest - when it does happen, it'll probably be a Lieutenant.

 

4) Primaris Champion. If these are going to happen at all, then this is the time for it. I would bet that GW thought strongly about introducing them last year alongside the Bladeguard but just wound up feeling they would intrude on each other's niche and - especially if the Champion doesn't have any synergy with the BGV as the Bladeguard Ancient does - they just decided to hold off on the Champion to give him his own chance to shine. The Judiciar overlapped a little with the Champion as well. This is a similar situation as to why I think we didn't see the jump-enabled Close Support squad(s) which I'm expecting in 2021 - if they'd debuted in 2020, that would have taken a lot of the wind out of the Assault Intercessors' sails (and sales).

 

And that's about all I see for characters next year. Just four picks, but it could translate to a half-dozen or more models depending on how many bike and jump characters they roll out at once. And for that matter it wouldn't shock me to see a Gravis Librarian or Chaplain turn up. And I think we all expect to see all three of those ranges (Gravis, bike, and jump) getting more characters over the ensuing years. Phobos is probably done as the remaining characters don't exactly fit the stealth theme and we've already seen two Lieutenants in that range. Non-biker Tacticus will be complete with the Champion minus any models representing new wargear options or the occasional alternate sculpt like the Indomitus Chaplain. I don't think there'll be more surprises in the way of brand-new character types like the Judiciar, but again GW can feel free to prove me wrong.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Lord Nord