Warhawks: Army List Breakdown

[Dracos]

My current smashface 2k Warhawks <Raven Guard> list. This is an exercise in why not what is in the list.  

 

+ HQ +

Korvin Kestrel <Kayvaan Shrike>

 

Relatively cheap and flexible, if underpowered in melee

 

Primaris Chaplain: Warlord, Master of Ambush, Swift and Deadly, The Vox Espiritum,

Master of Sanctity, Litany of Hate, Exhortation of Rage, Canticle of Hate (Aura) 

 

For good or ill a must have at the moment. Usually has lived most the game in my games so far and makes the Assault Intercessors a threat on Turn 1 that has to be dealt with leaving one of the forward deployed Incursor units unscathed.

 

+ Troops +

10 man Assault Intercessor Squad: Sgt Plasma pistol, Power fist 

 

See Chaplain Above

 

5 man Incursor Squad

5 man Incursor Squad

 

Generally with 5 Primary Objectives both will be forward deployed with the Eliminators holding my deployment zones Objective, with 6 Primary Objectives one will remain in the backfield guarding the second Objective, while the second unit grabs most defensible Objective in the midfield. Caveat: If opportunity for a shot at killing a character in Turn 1 seems possible I might use Eliminators in the midfield and both Incursors in the backfield. 

 

+ Elites +

5 man Bladeguard Veteran Squad

5 man Bladeguard Veteran Squad

 

Designed to Infiltrate (2 CP) forward pregame to reinforce or flip the midfield Primary Objectives if needed. Advancing is a gamble but the Chaplain's relic often makes it possible. Even better when I can use them to intercept opponents looking to engage the Incursors.

 

+ Fast Attack +

5 man Bolter Inceptor Squad

5 man Bolter Inceptor Squad

 

cheap Arrive Turn 2 as cover fire for the Incursors and Bladeguard. This combination of units, 1 ObSec, 1 Assault, 1 Fire Support is what I refer to as a Strike Teams. They are 505 points each and are responsible for securing the midfield. The Chaplain and Assault Intercessors are there also but they are more a Distraction Carnifex (without it being obviously so I hope) as what I really want from them is to draw units or unit fire away from the Strike Teams.

 

+ Heavy Support +

3 man Eliminator Squad

 

See Troops Above

 

5 man Eradicator Squad

5 man Eradicator Squad

 

I haven't used these yet but they are tagging in for the Aggressors. Same points now with the +5 pts per model in the FAQ. I'll be more than happy to put the Aggressors back in if it doesn't work out. I love Aggressors RoF and the powerfist are nice when close to the Chappy or Kestrel. Either way this is going to usually be another 2 CP investment with Strike from the Shadows. They are suppose to Strike from the Shadows delete the biggest baddest unit possible (preferably one without a 4++) and then die from the counter strike. Which is why I have two. Redundancy without spamming is your friend. I say without spamming not because I think spam in of itself is bad. I just feel it makes you a one trick pony and reduces your flexibility factor. Which is how gatekeepers shut you down rounds one and two of a tournament.

 

 

So there you have what I have but more importantly why. Honestly I'd never upgrade the Assault Intercessor Sgt like that as its a distraction unit but very little point options for a All-Primaris Only army. Better than couple years ago though. List is designed to excel at grabbing the Primaries. I will always take Deploy Scramblers and Engage on All Fronts unit GW comes up with more "on your turn" Secondaries. Third Secondary is normally Opponent or Mission Specific. Another reason to keep your list flexible.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Dracos

[Jacques Corbin]

How do you deploy? Are there a lot of vehicles in your meta, or does a single unit of Eradicators draw so much fire as to necessitate a second squad?

[Dracos]

Standard Deployment:

1) Eradicators and Inceptors are in Reserve. That cost 2 CP. 

2) Bladeguard use Infiltrate stratagem to get as close to the Incursors as possible. 

3) Kestrel <Shrike> has been in Reserve until the current FAQ. The points increase has necessitated either him or one of the other units start on the board. I will have to play test it, but with his speed and small footprint he is really the best candidate.

 

As far as the two unit of Eradicators, 

I have a practically neurotic need to double up on my units. Local meta has a nice variety but it's hard to truly gauge until more than two (that I know of) stores in the city open for playing. The Circle City Team Tournament had 40 players and there were four Knight players, and plenty of transports, dreadnoughts, walkers, in many of the armies. That was a team event so obviously unnatural meta compared to a singles. 

 

Current meta isn't where my head is though, its the future. I hate to give up the Aggressors boat of dakka because it seems the -1 damage is becoming a wider spread mechanic. Combined with Chaos needing everything Loyalist +1 Death Guard is going to join Necrons as needing a lot of D1 to negate their most current buffed abilities. Then we have to remember Orks, Nids, and the rest of the non-3+ xenos armies are going to coming in with new dexes this year (I hope). I think it's hilariously short sighted to think D2 damage is going to be the meta weapon come Fall of 21.

 

The Aggressors already get peoples attention though the Bladeguard has relieved some of that pressure. I'm going to assume the new hot Eradicators get at least the same.The nice thing (assuming more changes aren't coming) is I can swap Eradicators out and Aggressors in if it becomes apparent they aren't pulling their weight. Pretty sure that would get a "What?" from most analyse, but I think the meta-chasers have more of a 4-6 month mentality. I know that's pretty arrogant lol. 

 

There's all kinds of ways I could put more meta hot units like Plasma Inceptors in (5 in my pile-o-shame) but that's the reason I did a Breakdown. To show that there is a strategy to picking units that supersedes just making a point click meta unit army. Three units designed to work as one, on one Objective.

25% of my points for one and 50% of my army to secure two Primary Objectives. Another 40% to pose as a threat to my opponents frontline/objectives. 10% to hold my own objective. I'd say I was crazy for dedicating so lightly to my own deployment zone if playing hadn't proven to me the concept that most opponents see the threat of the units closest to them and ignore my backfield until to late. After I rack up 45 points for Primary points then I could care less about what they kill as long as it's not putting VP on their plate.

[War of the Eagle]

In my personal opinion I think redemptors are a great counter to the -1 damage skill and most things. They spit of a rediculus amount of 1D shots and their fist with flat 4-6 damage wrecks charicters. Not sure if they work with your tactics but for me they are almost always mvp.

 

Alternatively a squad of 2x Invader AtVs with gattling cannons have a surprising number of shots and are extremely mobile and have more wounds.

Edited January 16, 2021 by War of the Eagle

[Dracos]

I have a (probably unhealthy) preference for Infantry models for various reasons. I can’t argue about the Redemptor value at 180 points he’s not too shabby. I’m just not a fan of them in a Raven Guard list. If I went that route it would be Warsuits. I own two Warsuits and a Xiphon Interceptor but I not even look at building them until the meta becomes less dangerous to them. Especially the Xiphon. :)

 

Look at how my list is designed (admitted not a top meta list) to collect VP. As designed to grab Primaries a Redemptor could replace the Bladeguard (?). Can’t see the Redemptor lasting that long. The Redemptor in my eyes is more like my Eradicators. Bring them in and kill something dead ... then likely die next turn. The target on both units backs is a great big red set of crosshairs. With Transhuman though the a Eradicators might live to see a model or two survive to the next turn and the Redemptor is dead or reduced to wish hitting with his cannons.

 

imo

[Dracos]

So I’ve promised myself to start back. At least building models I foresee using come the drop of the new Codex. I’ll be working toward constructing this army list to start and we can tweak as play proves need for change. 

 

Not being able to build 3 +2 =5 in the Gravis Infantry units is killing me. Really hope that changes in the Codex. Until then I’ll have to proxy a couple Eradicators and Inceptors. 
 

I’ll be building all the new Terminator models and converting the Captain. I believe I have a spare Bladeguard Shield somewhere.
 

With any luck I’ll get some test games in by end of the month and report on how they hold up. 
 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Dracos
Returning to original theme

[Dracos]

Query for the brain trust of the Spire

 

As much as it cuts another slice off my “All Gravis” concept and yes I know Terminators are cheating also … sooooo … 

 

Keep a second unit of 6 Eradicators or shift to 2 squads of 3 and add in its place 2 squads of Las-fusil Eliminators?

 

Pros ?  Cons ?  I’ll be debating this next few days with myself as I prep Terminator models for painting. 
 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Dracos

[WAR]

I’d keep the eradicators. Mainly because your army is heavy armored space marines. 

[tajj]

Just to note las-fusil eliminators can't use their move-shoot-move rule as the sgt needs the instigator bolt carbine. You could add that but then you only get 2 las fusil shots per squad of 3. 

 

Could add a Phobos Librarian so they can't get shot within 12", but an expensive add for a 3 man squad.

 

Depends really what you want them for, I think if you want to shoot monsters/vehicles/very tough infantry then the Eradicators are probably better as long as you can get them into range. Extra shot with the melta rifle, extra AP and the re-rolls against vehicles or monsters.

 

If you want to snipe out characters from squads then I'd go bolt sniper rifles eliminators with the bolt carbine. 

 

[Dracos]

Yeah that Librarian combo just isn’t worth point investment. People come up with neat tricks but often they don’t work well when in context of a complete army build. 
 

I’ll use Eliminators a few times to begin with because I love them but long term plan is work on ways to replace them with Eradictors at same point cost. I just need to work on how to incorporate my line of battle on each flank. I don’t want a blob of 18” shooting just jammed together. 

[Dracos]

++ Army Roster (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Warhawks) ++

 

 

Detachment: Gladius Task Force

 

+ Character +

 

Apothecary Biologis: Bolter Discipline

 

Captain in Gravis Armour: Boltstorm Gauntlet, Powerfist, and Relic Chainsword

 

Captain in Terminator Armour: Relic Shield, Relic Weapon, Warlord

 

+ Battleline +

 

Heavy intercessor Squad [5]

. Weapon: Heavy Bolt Rifle

 

Heavy intercessor Squad [5]

. Weapon: Heavy Bolt Rifle

 

Heavy intercessor Squad [5]

. Weapon: Heavy Bolt Rifle

 

+ Infantry +

 

Aggressor Squad [6]

. Weapon: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets & Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

 

Aggressor Squad [6]

. Weapon: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets & Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

 

Eradicator Squad [3]

. Weapon: Melta Rifle

 

Eradicator Squad [3]

. Weapon: Melta Rifle

 

Inceptor Squad [6]: 

. Weapon: Assault Bolters

 

Inceptor Squad [3]: 

. Weapon: Plasma Exterminators

 

Inceptor Squad [3]: 

. Weapon: Plasma Exterminators

 

Terminator Squad [5]

. Weapon: Assault Cannon

 

Terminator Squad [5]

. Weapon: Assault Cannon

 

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Dracos
Adjusted due to point changes

[Dracos]

I plan on using this bloat at 1,500 for 2 or 3 games before jumping to 2k. I find it best to learn/relearn your army abilities in a new edition is to test your core ideas (1k or less) and build from there. I’m trying to stay balanced but focusing on melee as that’s always the hardest phase to master. I’m pushing Terminators over Aggressors at this stage because I haven’t played with them since 5th or before maybe. 
 

++ Army Roster (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Warhawks) [1,500pts] ++

 

 

Detachment: Gladius Task Force

 

+ Character +

 

Captain in Gravis Armour: Boltstorm Gauntlet, Powerfist, and Relic Chainsword

 

Captain in Terminator Armour: Relic Shield, Relic Weapon, Warlord

 

+ Battleline +

 

Heavy intercessor Squad [5]

. Weapon: Heavy Bolt Rifle

 

Heavy intercessor Squad [5]

. Weapon: Heavy Bolt Rifle

 

+ Infantry +

 

Aggressor Squad [6]

. Weapon: Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets & Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

 

Eradicator Squad [3]

. Weapon: Melta Rifle

 

Eradicator Squad [3]

. Weapon: Melta Rifle

 

Inceptor Squad [3]: 

. Weapon: Assault Bolters

 

Inceptor Squad [3]: 

. Weapon: Plasma Exterminators

 

Inceptor Squad [3]: 

. Weapon: Plasma Exterminators

 

Terminator Squad [5]

. Weapon: Assault Cannon

 

Terminator Squad [5]

. Weapon: Assault Cannon

 

++ Total: [1,500pts] ++

[9x19 Parabellum]

@Dracos have you played this list yet/much/at all?

 

My sense (as I said in the other thread) is that everything is going to vehicles, and you don't have enough anti-tank (specifically, long ranged anti-tank) in your list.  I think this list could work as a "sit on objectives + kill enemy infantry + hope to weather the storm against vehicles" list.  You've got a lot of thicc T5 and T6 3 wound bodies, which is nice, but mortals/devastating are going to chew you up pretty good.

 

The only thing I see in your list that I've had no luck with is the aggressors, but if you're running a biologis w/ bolter discipline you might have better luck than me.

[Dracos]

I’ve played four 1000 point games and one 1500 point game as I build upwards. I don’t have the Terminators painted yet so I switched in more Aggressors and added some Eliminators. 
 

My local store are almost all what I’d call very casual players most of who have what we would consider pretty normal TAC list. The Tau player that beat me having the most meta list at the moment. 
 

Interesting you’re not having luck with the Aggresors. They are a glass hammer. Which is just weird but they are taking the brunt of the big guns I face. It’s why I need to get those Terminators finished. Any time I can get off a charge though the wreck whatever they touch. I’m assuming the Terminators will get a threat priority on reputation alone (plus I plan on converting the power fist in chainfist) and cause some decision paralysis. With the built in would rerolls Instill expect my Aggressors to be the Hammer and the Terminators the Anvil. 
 

I’ll know within the next month as I have my wedding anniversary and a friends vacation to North Carolina all planned in October. 

[Dracos]

Now that we finally have our Codex, I've decided to finally get serious about building a list for 10e. I have went through the Codex and while I know Firestorm is a good Detachment, iso much of it doesn't benefit an all-infantry army build. Shame too because it does have some great energy with the Gravis units that I love so much. I can still go that direction for all-infantry funsies, but this is about creating as competitive build as possible given my self-imposed limitations.

 

I really could use some help from my friends here in the Ravenspire though. I have a foundation but still searching for the right mix of characters to lead the units. I'll post what I have of the list and explain the basic concept and if anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

 

Quote

 

++ Army Roster (Imperium - Space Marines) [1,725pts] ++

Detachment

 

+ Character +

 

Lieutenant with Combi-weapon [xxx]

 

+ Battleline +

 

Heavy intercessor Squad [5]

.  Heavy Bolt Rifle

 

+ Infantry +

 

Aggressor Squad [6]

. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets & Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

Aggressor Squad [6]

. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets & Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

 

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [6]

. Master-crafted Power Weapon

 

Eliminator Squad [3]

. Las Fusil

Eliminator Squad [3]

. Las Fusil

 

Eradicator Squad [3]

. Melta Rifle

Eradicator Squad [3]

. Melta Rifle

 

Inceptor Squad [3] 

. Assault Bolters

Inceptor Squad [3] 

. Assault Bolters

 

Terminator Squad [10]

.  Assault Cannon x2

 

++ Total: [1,725pts] ++

 

 

+Basic Combat Doctrine+

 

1) Start with Drive the Blade Deep toward center of the board with the Bladeguard, the Terminators arriving Turn Two as reinforcement. 

 

2) Aggressors on the Flanks pushing toward Objectives on the edge where a squad of Eliminators should be awaiting back up. 

 

3) Inceptors and Eradicators positioned as fire support between the Bladeguard and Aggressors.

 

The Eliminators are chipping monsters and tanks but also for ObSec and Action Monkey duties, though I might swap the third unit out and add a Heavy Intercessor squad for the common home deployment zone ObSec.

 

I like both the Gladius and Vanguard detachments and try to stay balanced on how I approach scoring. I try to allow for the option to win with Primary or Secondary scoring shifting as circumstances dictate. I so badly wanted to create a list using the 20 Jump Intercessors I'm converting from the Assault Intercessors of the Indomitus Box sets but I feel they don't hit hard enough in a world where even powerfist need luck to damage vehicles. If I'm wrong I'll be pleased . . . but there are only so many points in a list and I know the bulk of units in my list can hit hard either in combat or through shooting . . . except the Bladeguard maybe, but they are suppose to be the Anvil to the Terminators harder hitting Anvil.

 

Again any thought within the parameters of my all-infantry self-imposed limitations is appreciated.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Dracos

[War of the Eagle]

Judicar with fights first for the bladeguard is pretty good. Or a chaplain for the +1 to wound.

 

Captain with termis can get them free AoCs which make them pretty tough to remove.

[Dracos]

Thanks I'm still tossing ideas and scenarios back and forth in my head simming, but this is pretty much where I'm at, except with the idea of using Lysander. Feels "wrong" but he makes Terminators tougher on the to wound roll and he hits harder than a normal Captain. Termies are always easier to kill than their rep says ... unless youre Deathwing 

[Dracos]

At the heart of the list in group A is the Judiciar. In group B is a Lieutenant. Each of which would have Blade Driven Deep. 

 

At the heart of the list in group A is the Judiciar. In group B is a Lieutenant. Each of which would have Blade Driven Deep. 

 

The Combi-Lieutenant is in both A and B. In B he has Shadow War Veteran. 

 

This leaves the Terminators either being led by [not] Lysander in Group A or a Chaplain in group B

 

Group A

 - [not] Lysander

 - Judiciar BDD

 - Combi-Lieutenant

 

Group B

 - Terminator Chaplain

 - Lieutenant BDD

 - Combi-Lieutenant VSW

 

Quote

 

++ Army Roster (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Primaris Warhawks) [2,000pts] ++

 

Detachment: Vanguard Spearhead

 

+ Epic Hero +

 

[Not] Darnath Lysander: Warlord

 

+ Character +

 

Judiciar: The Blade Driven Deep

 

Lieutenant with Combi-weapon

 

+ Infantry +

 

Aggressor Squad [6]

. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets & Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

 

Aggressor Squad [6

. Auto Boltstorm Gauntlets & Fragstorm Grenade Launcher

 

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [6]

. Master-crafted Power Weapon

 

Eliminator Squad [3]

. Las Fusil

 

Eliminator Squad [3]

. Las Fusil

 

Eliminator Squad [3]

. Las Fusil

 

Eradicator Squad [3]

. Melta Rifle

 

Eradicator Squad [3]

. Melta Rifle

 

Inceptor Squad [3]:

. Plasma Exterminators

 

Inceptor Squad [3]:

. Plasma Exterminators

 

Scout Squad [5]

. Missile Launcher

 

Scout Squad [5]

. Missile Launcher

 

Terminator Squad [20]

. Assault Cannon

 

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

 

For now I’ll be running a third Inceptor unit that has Assault Bolters. I might switch to all Assault Bolters if I feel Plasma isn’t pulling its weight. Either way when new Scout models come out there going in the list. 
 

Really wanted to slip a squad of Heavy Intercessors in here but it was just for the home objective and I’ll have leave that to a unit of Exterminators or Scouts. Everything in the list is needed elsewhere. 
 

[not] Lysander and the Judiciar each add a survivability element to the units they are leading that creates the pivot point I want this list to revolve around. Each of the units in this list has the ability to hit with a Strength 8 or better weapon and a lot of it is twin linked. The Combi-Lieutenant will designate the Objective the Bladeguard and Terminators are most likely assigned to secure, so that something. 
 

Im halfway through 10 Heavy Intercessors so the 10 Terminators [not] Lysander and a Judiciar conversion are all I need to get this on the table.
 

I’m sure I’ll adjust tactics after some play testing at local stores. We have a pretty competitive scene in Indianapolis so it’ll give me a chance to test against most the meta armies at some point. I’d always rather play well with a bit less optimized list I know how to pilot well than play mediocre with a list because I switch things up on the regular. 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Dracos

[Paladin777]

I personally think that if you have 2 squads of inceptors, one of each type is the way to go. 
 

I also think that if you can find the points (likely from a Scout Squad), then combining both aggressor squads and adding a biologis is a great way to make them able to 'punch up' a bit. 
 

other than that i think it looks like a fun list!

Edited October 28, 2023 by Paladin777

[Dracos]

Crap, nope those Aggressor squads are 6 each. Thanks for the catch. 

[Paladin777]

Then I'm gonna double down on the biologis. You mentioned in DM's going up against knights, and I think your feet's are warranted in this list. 
 

That said, lethal hits allows units with a crap-ton of shots (like aggressors) to actually put some wounds on targets they'd normally wound on 6's (like knights). Aggressors in melee could do some serious work with their TL S8, but getting them there will be very difficult!
 

Right now the only things you have that reliably put wounds on anything T10+ is your eradicators, but you're still only putting 15 wounds on something like a knight if all 6 eradicators shoot at it, and that's within melta range with rerolls taken into account.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Paladin777

[Dracos]

Quote

++ Army Roster (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Warhawks ) [2,000pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

Detachment: Vanguard Spearhead

 

+ Epic Hero +

 

Not-Darnath Lysander:

. Warlord

 

+ Character +

 

Judiciar:

. The Blade Driven Deep

 

Lieutenant with Combi-weapon

 

+ Infantry +

 

Aggressor Squad [6]:

. Boltstorm Gauntlets

 

Aggressor Squad [6]:

. Boltstorm Gauntlets

 

Bladeguard Veteran Squad [6]

. Master-crafted Power Weapon

 

Eliminator Squad [3]

. Las Fusil

 

Eliminator Squad [3]

. Las Fusil

 

Eliminator Squad [3]

. Las Fusil

 

Eradicator Squad [3]

. Multi-melta

 

Eradicator Squad [3]

. Multi-melta

 

Inceptor Squad [3]:

. Plasma Exterminators

 

Inceptor Squad [3]:

. Plasma Exterminators

 

Inceptor Squad [3]:

. Assault Bolters

 

Terminator Squad [10]

. Terminator Sergeant: Power Fist

. Assault Cannon

 

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

This is the list I’ll be running for awhile. At least until two things happen. 
 

First, When the new Scout models become available I’ll be replacing a unit of Inceptors with two units of Scouts with missile launchers.

 

Secondly, I am enjoying putting the new Terminator models together but I imagine I’ll be looking for a different way to use those points as I build up to tournament worthy tweaking of this list. 
 

I always design with the idea of Hold Home (which I would like to be able to afford Heavy Intercessors for, but Eliminators will do until I decide what to do about the Terminators and Not-Lysander), then Take Two or at least Take One/Deny One and win on Secondaries. 
 

Loosely the Terminators provide T2 support for the infiltrating Bladeguard if anyone wants to charge the Fight First Bladesmen. So far opponents have given me the middle objective the Bladeguard are on and assaulted my Eradicators (bad placing in my part) or Aggressors. So the Terminators might be shifting in support as I expect that trend to continue. Aggressors just have the numbers or invulnerable save to hold an objective long. 
 

The Eliminators job of infiltrating will be handled by the Scouts eventually but until then they’re action monkeys with a S9 gun to chip away at by stuff that might threaten the Aggressors ‘racing’ up the flanks toward objectives. They’ll then use the Phobos strat to redeploy same as the Scouts will to Secondary point scoring opportunities 

 

The Eradicators and Plasma Inceptors, like the Eliminators, all three are designed to combine to bring down some bigger targets or at least enough Aggressors finish them off. Like the Eliminators and Scouts, the Inceptors are pulling double duty as action monkeys when circumstances dictate. 
 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Dracos